School me on the 450 Bushmaster AR platform

Moderators: if this is in the wrong place please move it.

I have been looking to get an upper in 450 Bushmaster for deer hunting in lower Michigan where it is legal to use.
I have the tooling to swage jacketed .452 boolits in both a 3/4E ojive and a T/C nose. I can make any weight of these in either a soft point or hollow point, with the option of putting an airsoft BB in the hollow point if so desired. Has anyone had any experience running either of these boolit shapes in an AR?

I may be persuaded into sending a few boolits of each shape out to a member here for feed and function testing if anyone wants to help me out.

I just do not want to drop a pile of cash on an upper to find out that I have to either buy factory bullets or another point form die.

Thanks, Pipefitter.

Be sure your upper does not have a gain twist bbl (many do) that don't like cast. (ask me how I know!)

I'd skip the 450 BM and buy a 450 SOCOM.

Uses .458 not .452 bullets and cast works just fine.

Southern Michigan (shotgun area) regulations state that only straight wall cartridges are legal for deer hunting. The 458 SOCOM is a bottleneck case, which is not kosher in this part of the state for deer hunting (although if you really felt like it you can shoot rabbits and squirrels with it. Go figure.) I swage .452 boolits, not .458

Pipefitter you have saved me from starting a thread. I am tagging this one so I can get the same info you are looking for. So that means if you learn it on your own without the help of others jumping in come back and fill me in will ya. Thanks

That said I am also looking to learn about the 458 SOCOM. I am going to be building one last ar15 platform but this time its for me to keep. So far I have 458socom vs 50beowulf vs 450bushmaster. But I do like straight wall cases.

I am curious why there isn't more interest in the .45 Raptor. I'm not an AR guy so no interest there but even for a bolt gun it seems like a good idea. It uses the .452" bullet instead of .458". Not sure if .458" is just too large for the brass or if there is another reason. I'd prefer .458" just 'cause but there's lots of 0.452" moulds around too and Accurate will make what a guy wants.

I was toying with the idea of a single shot or bolt gun in .444 Rimless so same idea but .44 cal. Might still do it one day.

Not a criticism of .450 Bushmaster or .458 Socom just that it seems like a good option using readily available brass.

Sorry, a little off topic.

Longbow

I bought a 450 Bushmaster upper a year or so ago, and it has worked great for me. I use the rifle with a day/night digital scope for pig hunting. We can hunt pigs at night here too. Anyway I have no complaints about it. The round does take the pigs out easily, and it is probably overkill on the pigs. But when you encounter a really big pig you think differently then. I used to use a 35 Remington rifle and a .308 Win rifle for pig hunting, but I really like how the 450 Bushmaster performs on the pigs though.

Reloading has not been a problem. If you have reloaded handgun rounds that have straight sides too, then the 450 Bushmaster is no big deal for reloading either. My rifle hasn't been picky about the reloads and powder charge levels either. it works over a broad range of reloads that I have used so far.

They do have factory ammo available. Heck even Cabelas sells it too. So getting armor for it isn't a problem. Some gun stores also stock and sell it around here as well.

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Be sure your upper does not have a gain twist bbl (many do) that don't like cast. (ask me how I know!)

I'd skip the 450 BM and buy a 450 SOCOM.

Uses .458 not .452 bullets and cast works just fine

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roger that. ive got a 458 socom and have yet to find a cast load it DOESN'T like

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Originally Posted by Outer Rondacker

Pipefitter you have saved me from starting a thread. I am tagging this one so I can get the same info you are looking for. So that means if you learn it on your own without the help of others jumping in come back and fill me in will ya. Thanks

That said I am also looking to learn about the 458 SOCOM. I am going to be building one last ar15 platform but this time its for me to keep. So far I have 458socom vs 50beowulf vs 450bushmaster. But I do like straight wall cases.

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I'm in the same boat too. I'd like to get going with a big bore AR15 myself. My problem is I like parts of all 3. I like the shoulder on the .458 but wonder why it calls for a large pistol primer. I'd like to shoot 250 - 350 grain boolits in .452 cal. So the 450 Bushmaster seems to be the way to go for me. But a lot of 450 BM's have slower 1-24 twist barrels and they can't use GI mags. ,I haven't thought much about the 50 Beowulf because I don't have any moulds in 50 cal. -

When I started this thread it was not my intention to make it a "what cartridge is better" thread. Michigan law says that where I live and hunt only straight walled cartridges of a certain length are legal to hunt deer with. I have Dave Corbin tooling to make .452 swaged jacketed boolits (of any weight I want between 200gn to 450gn). I have an AR lower and was looking to put a 450 Bushmaster upper on it to hunt deer with. The 450 Bushmaster falls into the categories of being legal where I live and hunt, projectiles are also within the manufacturing capabilities of what I have on hand.

458 SOCOM= bottleneck cartridge= not kosher here....
45 Raptor- Looks like it will take an AR10 lower= I don't have an AR10 lower.
I do not have 429 swaging dies, nor do I wish to invest over $800 to buy a set, so anything 44 caliber is out.


What I was looking for was a member who might have had experience using either a TC or RN soft or hollow point in a AR 450 Bushmaster upper. Lacking that, a member who would like a few free bullets to test for feed and function in their AR.

I'm in SW MI and understand what you're getting at. Lots of great rounds I can't use unless I go elsewhere. 45 Raptor on an ar10 platform won't feed as well as a 450 BM or 45Velociraptor (like the raptor with slightly less PSI and COL) on an ar15 platform. I have much more 44 stuff so I went that route with a couple of 44 wildcats that are basically the 44 version of the bushmaster and raptor. In the AR15 mine will feed wide flat nose bullets or SWC type along with xtp's 265fp-innerlock bullets. I'd think you'd be fine with the 450BM and those bullets.

Hold up. I do not want to hijack this thread but I have to ask. 45 Velociraptor you say?? Correct me if I am wrong but that does shoot a .452 projectiles right??? Straight wall cases. Fits into an ar15 lower. I need more info on this round.

What is the difference in the 45 velociraptor and 450 bm?

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Originally Posted by Outer Rondacker

Hold up. I do not want to hijack this thread but I have to ask. 45 Velociraptor you say?? Correct me if I am wrong but that does shoot a .452 projectiles right??? Straight wall cases. Fits into an ar15 lower. I need more info on this round.

What is the difference in the 45 velociraptor and 450 bm?

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The 45 Velociraptor is the 45 raptor with slightly less allowable COL so it fits in an AR15 mag and slightly less pressure over the raptor (I think it's about 5-10K less) and use the higher pressure rounded lug bolt and extensions. 450BM uses a basically standard bolt and extension so the pressure is limited to 40K psi. A good compare chart is here http://mdws.forumchitchat.com/post/p...pid=1294449867

The 450BM has alot going for it especially factory ammo.

Like the OP stated, in his state straight walled cartridges are legal for hunting at certain times, etc. Thus the 450 Bushmaster became popular for mainly that reason. Besides it was the original first AR15 big bore hunting cartridge. It does work with standard AR15 lowers and you don't need special buffer springs, gas porting, either. It does use a special bolt though, so you need a new bolt for it. You could basically just get a barrel and bolt (maybe a new gas port block too) and pretty much have all you need to convert a AR15 over to the 450 Bushmaster. It does require a modified magazine though as it is larger than than the 223 rounds. You need to use a single shot or single stack type of follower in the magazine. You can use plastic magazines but the pressure on the feed lips could be a problem thus they suggest using metal magazines instead. Now I have found that you need to polish the magazine feed lips and contact points so that the cartridge will feed properly. The metal magazines tend to have sharp edges and raised bits that cause the rounds to stick in the magazine. But other than that it works fine. My rifle upper is the Bushmaster brand upper and it has a regular rifled bore without the gain twist to it. I haven't seen anyone selling a gain twist rifled bore for the .450 Bushmaster, but I haven't looked all that hard for one though.

The upper receiver ejection port is opened up slightly on the 450BM or any big bore upper. The actual dust cover is the same, but the recessed area behind it has been relieved slightly for the fatter cases. You can open up a standard upper but with parts as cheap as they have been lately I wouldn't bother with it. What makes them feed so well is the difference between the ID of the barrel extension and the ID of the chamber mouth isn't very much. Basically if it makes it past the barrel extension there isn't much for the bullet or case to snag on.

Mine is absolutely flawless for pig hunting. Granted it tends to be overkill for pigs, but none of them ran off after being shot with the .450 BM.
I use a ATN digital night scope and it is legal to hunt pigs at night out here in Texas. Especially since that is when the pigs are out and about anyway.
I wound up with a lot of meat in the fridge and I still gave away a lot for charity too. I was able to recover one of the Hornady 250 grain bullets from one pig's skull as the bullet fell out on the floor at the abattoir. Yeah I know the pig picture is a little one. I have misplaced my other pics at the moment.


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I think you just decided for me my next AR buildassembly, Earl.
Good work. Every sow you get keeps hundreds from being born maybe we hope.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Well, it finally happened. Had to take my lovely wife to a Dr. appointment on Wednesday, and made the trip to GLFA in Sparta, Michigan afterwards. Got a 450 Bushmaster upper with an 18" stainless barrel, a few mags, and 7 boxes of Hornady black 250gn ammo.
Ordered a Vortex scope and rings from Optics Planet this morning, with free 2 day shipping it should be here by tomorrow afternoon (I was expecting delivery on Monday or Tuesday, with the holiday weekend we will see).
I should have enough time next week to make a trip to the range to unload some of the factory rounds and then see if my home swaged boolits will feed in this upper.

Nice. I think you got a good combination there to play with. You will be having a lot of fun with it.

Congrats on the upper, I think you'll like it. The 450BM has a lot going for it.

Yes congrats and please let use know how the swaged bullet works and the twist rate you went with. Thanks

I want a 10.5 inch 450 pistol. Ive got a 50 beo 16 inch and its been a darned good gun but its on the heavy side. Problem is everyone seems to be pretty proud of there 450 and 50 beo pistol uppers. Easy to find a 556 or 9mm pistol upper for around 300 bucks but a 450 or 50beo is closer to a grand.

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale

I want a 10.5 inch 450 pistol. Ive got a 50 beo 16 inch and its been a darned good gun but its on the heavy side. Problem is everyone seems to be pretty proud of there 450 and 50 beo pistol uppers. Easy to find a 556 or 9mm pistol upper for around 300 bucks but a 450 or 50beo is closer to a grand.

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You should be able to buy the barrel and bolt or BCG for it. The other parts are pretty much standard stuff. I am not sure if you need to open up the ejection port on the upper receiver.If it needs to be a little larger it isn't by much.

I took a quick look and there are some companies that make pistol barrels for the 450 BM. Granted the price is higher, but there may not be much of any demand for pistol barrels though. Thus low volume.

I know on my beo they opened up the ejection port.

Update: After mounting the scope I got the head cold from the devil, about a week and a half with not enough energy to get off of the couch. Finally made it to the range this weekend, posted targets at 50 & 100 yards during a break in the shooting, set up the spotting scope, bench bags, and loaded one round in the magazine. Lined up the scope on the 50 yard target and CLICK! Worked the charging handle and ejected a live round without any marks whatsoever on the primer. Broke the rifle down, pulled the bolt and then the firing pin and found that the tip of the firing pin was ground off (not sheared or broken, ground off flat).
I had another AR in the truck so I switched firing pins and proceeded to get the scope sighted in. Ended up shooting one box of factory Hornady ammo, getting 3 shot 1" groups at the end.
This morning I called GLFA in Sparta and the owner said "We have been waiting on this call". It seems that they had ground the tip off of one firing pin to use as function and feeding testing on their uppers (to avoid accidental discharges in the shop) and it had somehow made it into the upper I bought. For my troubles a new firing pin and a free box of ammo is in the mail to me.
The upper drops the brass about 4-6 feet away at the 4 0'clock position, recoil is on par with a in-line muzzleloader loaded with 150gns of black powder and a 250gn bullet.

Not a AR but I have the Ruger Ranch in 450 bushy I shoot the lee 255 RF Or the 320 grn with IMR 4198 at 100 they shoot just fine for deer or pop cans

Resurrecting a dead thread to get some more feedback on the .450 Bushmaster.

I've been scouring the internet and have found dozens of folks who built .450 Bushmaster rifles for either deer hunting in the midwest, or pig hunting in the south. No one has built one for the purpose that I'm building mine.

I live on the border of Washington state and Idaho. I go into the Idaho woods nearly every weekend to go hiking, ATV riding, fishing, or just enjoying the family cabin. I don't hunt in Washington where the libs have made it a huge hassle, and I don't hunt in Idaho where it is ridiculously expensive to hunt for elk as a non-resident.

So, I don't need a hunting rifle. But since the re-introduction of wolves and a growing predator population, I do have a need for a handy carbine for defense against predators. I normally carry a Glock 29 in 10mm. I wanted something with a bit more range and oomph, so I bought a Marlin 1894 in .45 Colt and modified into a great little rifle. The problem is that it's a pig. Over 11lbs with all the goodies on it and loaded up.

I have a couple of ARs that I rarely shoot. I like them. But the .223 really is a fairly limited round. Great as a coyote and ground squirrel round, but not so much as a hard hitting defensive round.

I got a notice from Midway that they had a clearance special on an AR-Stoner .450 Bushmaster upper with a 16" barrel and optics ready for $399. I started looking at the numbers for the .450 Bushmaster and it seemed ideal for my needs. I already cast and load for the .45 Colt and am also a fan of the Hornady XTP 250gr J-word for wolves and cougars. We also have a lot of black bears and a a few grizzlies, but bears really aren't that big of a concern; every run in I've had with them has them running the other way post haste.

So, I hope to build a sub 8lb carbine that is hard-hitting and reliable.

I've got some cases ordered and already have some Lil' Gun on the shelf. I also ordered some of the special magazine followers needed to convert USGI 30-rounders into reliable 10-round .450 Bushmaster magazines.

Should be able to get under the 8# mark with an optic without too much effort. This 44x1.8" wildcat came in at 8#3 oz with the scope and magazine but without the suppressor. It has a fairly heavy barrel profile at .980" to the .875" gas block, .845" to the 11/16"-24tpi muzzle threads.

That's good to hear...

The way the upper is shipped it is set up for optics only. If I want to run iron sights, then I need to upgrade the hand guard...

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I just bought a 458 Socom, 450 BM upper from Primary Arms for seventy dollars to my door. I'm going cheap on this build, as I think, all AR's are pretty much the same. I built my 5.56 AR with a Spikes lower, JP trigger group, Nitride barrel, Toolcraft Nitride bolt carrier group and free floating handguard. This rifle shoots 3/4" groups and in four years, hasn't malfunctioned a single time.

Just finished putting a 450 together. Had an AR stoner upper I had bought, tried to sell it, but we have all seen the prices anymore. Short of giving it way not going to sell it. I went back and forth this cal or that. Yea I like the 458 socom, already have several 458 molds. But they aint cheap. Box of 20 is $60, brass not much less. I also cast several 452 bullets for various 45 pistols. A box of 20 Hornady are $25. So I went w 450BM. Not done much more than get it running at this point, get some dies next month. Already blew my budget on getting set up for my 41 swiss and the barrel for the 450.

Had the upper, just enlarged the ejection port. Had the wrench to get the M4 barrel out. A barrel was $90, gasblock and tube. Yea can buy a bolt, but I own a lathe, opened the 5.56 one, what everybody else is doing. Maybe someone is making them from scratch. I dremmeled the 5.56 extractor, works fine. No muzzle brake yet, debating about a tap to make one or buy one.

One thing I did to mine that made a huge difference was more weight in the buffer. Really needs an adjustable gas block. I had a bar of 1/2in tungsten left over from making a really heavy 9mm buffer. Epoxied a chunk in there, huge difference in the recoil. Forgot I had it out and touched one off, yea you feel it alot more with a factory rifle buffer.

Have a 250gr NOE RNFP mold, will use that, and plan on a 300gr or so. Have a Lee, but does not make the best bullets. Maybe a heavier NOE w HP pins. Powder coat them as I do with everything else.

Got in the upper today and am really happy with the quality. Fitted it to my my Ruger lower and it is nice and tight.

Had a Magpul FDE forend sitting around so installed it. Will have to upgrade the stock to a Magpul FDE model and add a recoil pad. Will have to look into getting a heavier buffer as well.

I had a bunch of army issued 30-round mags from 30 years ago that I brought home and so I ordered a couple of .450 Bushmaster followers for them from Chamber Tactical. That's supposed to be the most reliable route to go for magazines. I don't have any rounds, but I could get 10 shell cases in it and the lip tension was perfect.

As for actual ammo... This may be the hottest AR round in Texas and the Midwest, but the guy at my local gun shop had never even heard of it before, much less have any ammo in stock for it.

Driving 50 miles on saturday to go to a GSSF match and will see if the gun shops have any down there. Not enough time to order online as I'm leaving for Japan next week for a couple of weeks and don't want to have ammo sitting on my porch for that long. If I can find some ammo Saturday, then I'll shoot it on Saturday. Otherwise, I'll have to wait for my new dies to arrive.

Weighed it and with a fairly heavy 3x9 tactical scope, it is just over 7.5 lbs, so with a sling, light, and reflex sight, it should be under 8 lbs.

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Nice, I'm sure you'll like it. I'm in a "Limited Firearms Zone" which translates to straight wall cartridge under 1.8" long and larger than .35" or shotgun, muzzleloader, archery only. I can get 450BM ammo at the grocery store.

It is looking good. I did load up a few dummy rounds to test the magazines at home with before I went to the range. I had to do a little hand filing on my magazines before the rounds would feed OK. Other than that no problems. I did a fair amount of pig hunting in south Texas with my 450 Bushmaster.

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Originally Posted by Earlwb

It is looking good. I did load up a few dummy rounds to test the magazines at home with before I went to the range. I had to do a little hand filing on my magazines before the rounds would feed OK. Other than that no problems. I did a fair amount of pig hunting in south Texas with my 450 Bushmaster.

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Picked up another lower from Palmetto State Armory, a PA10 gen 2 with Magpul furniture on Friday from the Ace Hardware/sporting goods store, I was checking out their collection of dies and they actually had a set of Lee for the .450 Bushmaster, so I grabbed it. went to the nearby Sportsman's Warehouse and they had a couple boxes of Hornady Black in .450 Bushmaster for $29.99. Bought a box.

Headed home and tried to makes some loads and realized I had two major issues. First, I forgot to get the appropriate CCI 400 small rifle primers. Second, the sizing die from Lee was seriously undersized.

Headed to the family cabin on Saturday to at least function test the rifle and get the scope relatively sighted in. Decided to use a smaller and lighter Nikon rather than the heavy "tactical" 3x9.

I also did some filing on my magazine feed lips and cycled a bunch of rounds prior to heading to the range; everything seemed to work fine.

At the range, all rounds cycled and fed perfectly with both of my converted magazines. Did not try standard USGI mags with stock black followers; will do that when I have a bunch more ammo loaded.

Recoil was substantial compared to a regular AR and noticeably harsher than my current woods gun; a Marlin 1894 in .45 Colt. But, it really wasn't all that bad and I fired a box of ammo with no ill effects to my shoulder. My elderly father also shot it and said it felt like his Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum.

Since it was only a 25yd range and I had limited ammo, didn't do any real accuracy testing, but dad was able to get a 3-shot group into one ragged hole.

Overall, very, very happy with the performance and feel of this rifle. Can't wait to get back from Japan next month and get it totally kitted for carry in the woods.

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The prices on the 450 Bushmaster uppers has been coming down. I'd like a 10" pistol set up for subsonic loads. Make a great light weight deer gun with power like a .44 mag. With those SB tactical braces, you can really put the rounds on target quickly. A 300 gr. boolit @ 1000 fps is big medicine.

Well, that idea didn't last long. Seems the 450 is not a good choice for subsonic in an AR. Guess I better stick to 45 acp and keep it simple.