My son is trying to get started reloading and later on into casting he's on a very tight budget. I've been looking for the best bang for the buck scale and powder measure. Can anyone give some advice in this area? Thanks in advance lost...
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My son is trying to get started reloading and later on into casting he's on a very tight budget. I've been looking for the best bang for the buck scale and powder measure. Can anyone give some advice in this area? Thanks in advance lost...
Can't go wrong with a Lyman 55 powder measure and Lyman scale!
If money is tight, you do not need a powder measure. It is simple to make powder scoops with spent cartridge cases. For plinking a scoop is all you need...just keep loads below maximum. If you want maximum loads, have the scoop throw a bit under maximum and then trickle up.
DO NOT skimp on a cheap scale. I would suggest a beam scale to start. Digital scales can drift...not a problem if you know what to do, but adds a level of complication he does not need as a beginner. I have a digital scale and use it a lot, but I will never sell by beam scale. Mine is a Lyman but any of the name brands are going to be good scales.
Lyman scale and Lee ppm ,I can't warm to the Lee scale even though it works OK.
I'm of the opinion that a $10 pocket scale will beat the pants out of a scoop. I have used cheap scales for medicines for years, I have not experienced any drifting. If you want to talk about drifting throw 10 loads from a scoop and look at how all over the place that end up, repeat with the cheapest scale you can find on Amazon. Your accuracy will be leap and bounds better.
I started with a Lee Safety Scale and a dipper in '69. Now before anybody claims "JUNK", let me tell you my experiences with it. First, I know how to read a vernier scale as I learned how to use a slide rule (a primitive calculator ;-)) in high school, so reading/setting the Lee was no big deal. Another thing about the scale is a lockable poise. Set it, lock it, and it won't jump out of a notch. I have a Lyman scale that if the pan is remover too quickly or bumped, the 1/10th poise can jump changing the setting. BTDT and had to dump and reweigh 40 charges because the poise jumped .3 gr heavier. Unless the Lee scale is actually broken, it will weigh accurately. I have dropped one from a shelf approx 4' above my bench, it bounced and when checked, no change inaccuracy. I have weighed a piece of paper towel about half the size of a postage stamp, something my other scales didn't. Yes the settling can be slow but I placed a magnet under the pan and it is as quick as my RCBS and Lyman scales.
No I am not a Lee salesman, but often a new reloader will get skewed reviews from other reloaders and be "forced" to purchase something perhaps out of his budget just on someone's personal likes (just look around any you will see many brand new reloaders ask "what kind of tumbler do I need to start?".They believe shiny, virgin looking brass is a necessity. Nice for looks, but not absolutely necessary.).
Didn't mean to reply with a rant, just sharing my good experiences with a much (mis)maligned tool, so a new guy can get all the opinions...
I would go with a cheap digital scale. Make sure it will read in grains and not grams, unless you like doing math and are careful enough to always do the math.
$27 from Midway and I'm certain you could do better on Amazon
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018278138?pid=207090
A set of Lee dippers will get ya by.
But I would encourage holding off, and getting what you really want.
You're making a potentially life time investment, and if you 'upgrade' later- you won't have a trade in allowance.
I'm a beam scale guy.
I got a new age digital one with a press a few weeks ago.
it worked fine for a couple hours.
Then it didn't.
I was setting up for 5-odd gr charge of Bullseye for .45ACP.
When the case overflowed, it read 2.7.
I had it on the wrong units!
When I figured that out, and switched it over-
Instead of being 1/3-1/2 full like I expected----a 5.0gr weight of powder barely covered the bottom of the case.
I checked the units it was measuring, the calibration, any damage, etc. it was all good.
I weighed out a 150 gr bullet on the Lyman beam-- it came to 150.1.
On the digital--- 186.
A 185gr HP weighed 226 on the digital.
Best I can figure is it has brain damage, and my love affair with digital scales just came to an end.
The lee perfect powder measure does well for me. I use an RCBS 505 that I got used. I think that's a good way to go.
I agree, A set of Lee dippers will get you going well enough. I still use them.
Several tips to look at/ consider here.
1) hit the gun shows and estate sales, there is nothing wrong with used equipment. As long as its still accurate and this can be checked with a set of check weights easily. Even a brand new scales should be checked when setting up the firs time to make sure.
A good beam type scales is a big asset on the bench for a lot of things. A digital can be nice and can give better closer increments ( my gem pro reads to .02 grns instead of .1 grns) Some take up less bench space also.
2) Powder measures used or new are pretty universal and not a lot to go wrong with them but you do need a scales to set them. A used measure Lyman, rcbs, lee, Redding. or others is handy and easy to set and used. Powder measures may like certain powder types. Some do better with stick type some flakes and most do well with ball. The lyman 55 is a food all around measure, again these can be found used at good prices.
Dippers a trickler and scales can make very good accurate loads but is slower. Dippers from lee can be purchased or they can be made from tubing and wire. a couple lengths of brass, or steel tubing in various sizes some heavy copper wire to form handles from. and some flat stock for the base end and they are simple to make. Or they can be made from salvaged cases picked up around the range. Again a scales is needed to set and check them in use though
While I'll endorse a good beam scale and used ones can be found, the prices of beam scales have risen beyond the price of digital scales.
If you get lucky and find a good, used, beam scale for less than $30 - I would recommend buying it. However, the price of digital scales have come down to the point they will almost always beat the cost of a mechanical scale.
I have an old 5-0-5 that continues to work perfectly and I have larger Ohus that needed some work but is reliable. My old Dillon "D" terminator digital continues to be very repeatable and I trust it for basic stuff. (checking powder measures after storage,etc. ) The 5-0-5 is the final say when it really matters.
A good resource for gently used stuff is to post a ad. here in the Sellin' & Swapping section as a WTB (want to buy)
Or check in often for the WTS items. But be quick, a lot of them go in a few minutes.
Don't mean to hijack this post. So what brands of older beam scales have a poise lock? I have used a couple old Lymans for years and years but have also had a few issues with bumping the pan and the 1/10th poise moved and had to pull a few bullets. I have an older RCBS partner electronic also. But I've had to send it in a couple times to be fixed/ recalabrated. Thanks.
IIRC, my RCBS scale's drum has a set screw on the 1/10th "drum", but I have never tried to use it in that manner. Otherwise the Lee Safety Scale s the only one I know that incorporates a locking poise/slide...
A lot of fellers are recommending a dipper, but I would add; a dipper in conjunction with a scale.
My lee beam scale and the perfect powder measure work just fine. You can pick both of them up for under 50 $ used even cheeper. Some people gripe about the lee scale being slow. Well Iam not ever in a hurry measuring powder ever. And the perfect powder measure will decently speed thing up if you want speed.
To date the only real “new” thing I have bought for reloading and casting is a die set, a size die and top punch for a specific application. Everything else pretty much came from the secondary market.
When working on a budget patience is the key and you have to invest time to hunt what you are looking for.
Don't forget about RCBS customer service. When I got my scale I sent it to RCBS for inspection. So if you get a deal on a used RCBS scale that's damaged or missing parts it might still be a great deal.
My vote goes with a Lee Safety Powder Scale.
The guy who started me reloading gave me a Lee Safety Powder Scale and it served me well for many years and while I now have a Lyman D7, the Lee still has a spot on my bench, I honestly am not sure why I switched.
Have checked dippers against a beam scale and have gotten very consistent charges from the dippers. Any beam scale in good condition can be very reliable, though some are easier/quicker to use than others.
The dipper is just a transfer tool to save time to load the scale pan?
Is that not what some of us are intending?
I started real high tech back in 1975 at the wee age of 19.
I used a small bowl and dipped my powder out of with a plastic picnic spoon. The powder went from the spoon to my shiny new RCBS 505 beam scale. When I went over, I pinched a few powder granules in my fingers from off the scale pan and trickled them back onto the pan until it balanced.
We are talking IMR 4350 and a heavy barrel 243 Win ......
The coyotes did not laugh long.
After these many decades I am still a beam scale guy but not a fan of the vaunted RCBS 505 for one simple flaw: The tenth’s of grain tab on the beam can and does jump to different settings when the beam drops as you remove the pan from the scale.
I imagine one could alieviate that problem with a pencil eraser positioned so that the beam banged down onto it instead of the scale’s frame, however I retired my 505, bought a 510 then fell into a 1010.
They all sit in envy on a shelf because I finnaly found a 304 Dial O Grain. Spendy even used but sweet!
Three44s
Thanks much
Thanks all on the "beam" question. I've used Lee dippers with the lyman beam scales for years. I use a dipper that holds more powder than i need then hold the filled dipper over the powder pan , then tap the dipper with the end of a pencil to dribble in the required amount of powder. I've done this for 40 years. but you need to check that tenth grain weight every time before you fill the powder pan. My old fumble fingers usually bump the scale beam at some point. I'm not fast, use 2 presses to charge with powder, seat bullet and crimp, complete just 1 shell at a time. But in my old age I enjoy shooting the mouse fart loads. Loading those takes patience.
I've been reloading over 35 years and sometimes I still use this method; "dip and trickle". I have 3 good scales, and mebbe 4 powder measures (two are used most) but if I just want a "quickie" I'll dip and trickle (or shake the dipper to get to final weight). I figured out a while back what each dipper throws with my methods and recorded them, but I still use a scale when I "dip"...
The Dipper is Old School, stand alone, and when carefully calibrated to any caliber will throw consistent charges faster than any beam or electronic scale, which by themselves - scales DO NOT throw charges, while the dippers do.
For some precision reloaders, powder VOLUME rather than powder weight is their ticket to accuracy, they do not weigh their charges, and they win just the same.
If you are serious about saving money, MAKE YOUR OWN DIPPERS, learn how to consistently throw a charge with the dippers (it is not difficult), and laugh all the way to the bank.
Have used a Redding beam for 40 years, still spot on. A tip to stop poise bounce place a small piece of foam for the beam to rest on ,cushions the beams fall when you remove the pan slow or fast.
Cheers Mai in au.
Lee dippers, trickler, digital scale and a beam scale. I prefer older equipment so I picked up a "vintage" RCBS 505 beam scale off of ebay rather inexpensively.
There is a Lee scale on S & S for $10 plus shipping, sounds fair to me.
My opinion only-
I dip with Lee powder dippers to get close to my intended charge, I then dump dipper into a Dillon Eliminator beam scale, I then use my trickler to get the exact charge weight I need. The trickler is either a Hornady or a Lyman. I don't remember which and the label fell off years ago.
Some may say that loading the way is too slow or a pia. Yup, it's slow, but I get the exact charge weight every time and it forces me to slow down and enjoy the hobby. Going slower means fewer mistakes. Mistakes mean big kabooms.
As for the OPs exact question in reference to the scale, the Dillon is fair priced and a very good unit. I'd buy the same scale today if mine got stolen or whatever.
Everything I mentioned would cost roughly $100 total and would last a lifetime with care. I'm a giant fan of Lee Precision, I didn't have any luck with their scale. I tried my hardest to like it to no avail. About the only Lee product I've used that I wasn't 100% satisfied with.
For inexpensive digital scales, here is a thread that I started in August:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...endation/page2
Might want to take a wander through there. There are a number of different opinions offered on cheap digital scales.
Don't write off used either, here on the forum or locally, I'm coming across used reloading stuff on a regular basis. Probably going to look at a whole pile of reloading stuff on Thursday. Guy wants it gone, he has health issues, the stuff was his dad's. Mostly RCBS stuff, press, dies(10+), powder measure, Lyman lead pot half a dozen molds and handles, scale, polisher, thousands of pieces brass, 10,000+ primers, looks like 40+ lbs. of powder. From the photo's he's sent me it looks like a pickup load.
I can see multiple S&S ads in my future if we can agree on a price and from what he's told me already, I don't think that is going to be a problem.
If I get this I'm going to have to build a second powder storage box, mine is already over-flowing! Gotta shoot more guns and less bull.
Find an old used RCBS or Ohaus 5-0-5. Don't go cheap on a scale. Powder measures can bw had for an inexpensive price used. They are of little benefit if the scale doesn't permit an accurate setup of the powder measure.
Here's an FWIW; I start setting my powder measure with my RCBS 505 or my Lyman D5 beam scales. I'll then weigh a charge on my beam scale and then weigh it on my Frankfort Arsenal digital scale. I'll note what my "good" weight is on the digital and then use that for charging because it is a bit faster. I have time and especially when working up a load I'll weigh each charge. After about 10 light charges of CFE Pistol (3.7 gr.) I started noticing odd weights appearing, having to trickle up and/or remove more from the charge. I reweighed a bunch of previous charges and noticed a +/- .2 to .3 grain difference form my "standard". The digital has fresh batteries, had warmed up to using temp., but I still got variations. I usually place the pan back on the scale between charges, glance at "zero" and tare often. For potting ammo this prolly wouldn't make a lot of difference, but I believe it would when working up a load or when the manual's min/max is about 1 grain. I had a bad experience with a "good" digital scale a few years ago, a Jennings that was highly recommended on a forum, and it died a crazy death after a few months (wandering zero, needing tare every time pan was removed/replaced and eventually could not calibrate). Tried 3 digitals in the last 12 years and all failed, and yep, I heeded all the warnings about lighting, EMF interference, temps. and power supply, and I never had any variations with a beam scale (whether it's a $$$ Ohaus or an inexpensive Lee Safety Scale). Needless to say I don't trust digital scales when precision is needed...
Jes sharing my experience...
Perhaps mdi you are a static electric "capacitor" that uses and unintentionally abuses electronic scales. Maybe your plastic wheeled (or synthetic padded) reloading chair is on top of a plastic mat and the movement between the two (or your backside) is the generator. Or your leather soled shoes on synthetic carpet. Do you get shocked in cold low and humidity weather when you reach out for the door handle? Try a PC wrist ground to relieve the electric potential between you and the bench before you touch the electronics.
First thumbs up for buying used equipment. Sometimes you have to look and wait, but that is the trade off for not spending more.
I think it was Elvis Ammo who did a video comparing low price digital scales. It looked like one (not the more expensive) was better than the others. I had been using an inexpensive digital scale made for reloading, but wasn’t convinced it was that accurate. I couldn’t find the brand he tested, but found one that looked like it. In China, where all this stuff is made, one factory builds the same thing for others to put different names on it. Anyway it works well for me. Seems to be more consistent. In the beginning I checked it with a beam balance and it was right on. I also have some calibrating weights I have checked it with.
What I like about using it, is I can dribble powder in a lot easier and faster with my fingers than, with a beam balance and dribbler, that I used for years. For me it speeds things up. The beam and support for the pan gets in the way to dribble with your fingers.
Unless you are talking about automatic powder measures, (I dream of one) the Lyman 55 powder measure is top notch.
I’ve never used dippers for smokeless powder, but think the same measure will throw different weights with different powders. Something to keep in mind. Otherwise, unless you’re pushing the limits, why not start with dippers?
I have tried several inexpensive digital scales. I don't trust them. I wanted a faster way to weigh cast boolits.
Put the same boolit on ten times and get ten different weights. Often by more than a full grain. They just set on a shelf.
I have a Lyman 1000 beam scale. It's always right. Have a scale check weight to be sure. I have a Lee Safety scale. Just as right.
I have a set of the Lee yellow dippers. I have a few dippers I made from found cases. With a bit of practice to develop a consistent dip I can dip loads to within .2 grs. This works very well except for max loads.
I have a few Lyman 55 measures and a Lee perfect measure. Both throw very consistent charges. .1 grs or better. with most powders. Some of the long granule powders not quite as good.
With a bit of shopping you can find very good beam scales for good prices. Used is a good place to start.
Ebay isn't bad. Local gun and outdoor shows are good. Garage sales, gun shops, the shooting ranges. All places you may find good stuff.
A set of dippers and a scale to check yourself with will be a good start. Just keep loads on the low side.
You can always add more tools as you go.
We all do.
Leo
GONRA is happy with a RCBS Electronic Chargemaster - then touching up / checking up with a beam balance scale / dribbler.
Need a good scale? Nice used ones are not expensive at all. Look in the Swappin & Sellin section of this castboolits. Ask me how I know.