Citric acid and brass cleaning

Truth in advertising... I saw several positive comments in different threads about using a mix of citric acid, dish soap and boiling water and decided to give it a try on some pretty dirty .45 ACP brass I have.

The brass had already been cleaned in a vibrating cleaner using ground walnut hulls and cleaned their exterior pretty good. However, the interior of the cases remained pretty cruddy and I didn’t like the way the primer holes looked... so a hundred or so went into the mix.

I didn’t see a drastic difference in the exterior of the cases. But holly cow, the effectiveness of the citric acid on the dirty interior well beyond what I expected.

Attachment 278514

On the left are a sample of the brass cleaned with the citric acid. On the right are cases that I didn’t clean in the acid. You can see that the mix really does do a good job of getting the crud out around the primer hole.

I can’t wait to pop the spent primers and see what the primer pocket looks like. Depending on what the primer pocket looks like, I think I will test the next batch after popping the spent primers.

I always deprime before cleaning brass before wet tumbling with citric acid and car wash/wax, I don't see any need to clean it twice.

What amount of citrus acid are you using?

I tried this for the first time this week. I used 1 tsp of citrus acid with a 1.5 gallon of hot water, a squirt of dish washing liquid soap and s/s pins. I tumbled for 3 hours.

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I cleaned these after the walnut hulls and before depriming to test the effectiveness. I already vibrated all my inventory of dirty brass before I learned about the citric acid tip.

In the past I’ve had problems with cleaning medium getting stuck in the interior of cases and dust accumulation. Adding an post vibrating wash helped fix that... so making that a citric acid wash vs. plain water isn’t a big deal.

I guess the big question is if the CA wash can replace vibrating them in a cleaning medium... and if so, when to use one method over the other.

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Originally Posted by ioon44

I always deprime before cleaning brass before wet tumbling with citric acid and car wash/wax, I don't see any need to clean it twice.

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I eyeballed the whole thing... I used about 4 cups boiling water, about 2 tsp of acid and a squirt of dish soap.
Attachment 278515

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Originally Posted by Valley-Shooter

What amount of citrus acid are you using?

I tried this for the first time this week. I used 1 tsp of citrus acid with a 1.5 gallon of hot water, a squirt of dish washing liquid soap and s/s pins. I tumbled for 3 hours.

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I don't wet tumble.

I usually dry tumble (treated corn cob media) cases that I've fired in my guns.

BUT, when I pickup aged, dingy range brass...or just very old, like decades old used cases from a gunshow purchase, I do a Hot Citric bath in a crock pot.
First, I wash the cases in hot tap water with some dish soap...bulk wash in bucket just moving cases around in bucket with my hands.
Second, I dunk the cases in near boiling citric acid solution. Crock pot, with a gallon of water and 3 TBLSP of pure food grade citric acid powder. I put cases in fishnet bag for dunking. I dunk for only 3 minutes or so. You can see when they are clean enough. If I do a large quantity, I do them in batches...each batch will take a little longer, since the Citric acid looses it's strength from batch to batch.
Third, and probably most important is to rinse with clean water...I do this a 2 or 3 times, with fresh water each time.
Lastly, I dry them in a towel in front of the wood stove, or if summer, on the picnic table in the sunshine.

I always remove primers before this process.
This process passivates the brass, so I don't tumble afterward, I just leave them as is...they ain't super shiny, they are actually kind of dull. But the Passivated layer prevents aging tarnish.

Great advice... sounds like I will stick to vibrating my fired brass as my primary cleaning method and if I ID a batch during depriving that is unusually dirty then add the second step of an acid wash.

As you can see in the photo I posted earlier, the inside of this batch of brass was pretty carbon fouled around the primer holes. I’m not worried about getting the brass to “like new” for aesthetic reasons... I just want to make sure ignition is even and consistent.

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Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe

I don't wet tumble.

I usually dry tumble (treated corn cob media) cases that I've fired in my guns.

BUT, when I pickup aged, dingy range brass...or just very old, like decades old used cases from a gunshow purchase, I do a Hot Citric bath in a crock pot.
First, I wash the cases in hot tap water with some dish soap...bulk wash in bucket just moving cases around in bucket with my hands.
Second, I dunk the cases in near boiling citric acid solution. Crock pot, with a gallon of water and 3 TBLSP of pure food grade citric acid powder. I put cases in fishnet bag for dunking. I dunk for only 3 minutes or so. You can see when they are clean enough. If I do a large quantity, I do them in batches...each batch will take a little longer, since the Citric acid looses it's strength from batch to batch.
Third, and probably most important is to rinse with clean water...I do this a 2 or 3 times, with fresh water each time.
Lastly, I dry them in a towel in front of the wood stove, or if summer, on the picnic table in the sunshine.

I always remove primers before this process.
This process passivates the brass, so I don't tumble afterward, I just leave them as is...they ain't super shiny, they are actually kind of dull. But the Passivated layer prevents aging tarnish.

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For a long time before I started using SS pins to tumble brass I would soak in about 2.5 gallons of water (1/2 a 5 gallon Homer bucket) with 1 to 2 table spoon of citric acid (small pile in middle of hand). Then rinse, dry, and vibratory polish with walnut hull, splash of mineral spirits and Nu Finish auto wax. The mineral spirits helped keep dust down (dust from primer firing is a source that easy to absorb lead from) splash of mineral spirits also helps spread the Nu Finish evenly around when I ran the vibrator for a few minutes empty before adding the brass.

I didn't deprime before washing but I did deprime before vibrating in media. Yeah checking primer holes for stuck media was a thing. That was my recipe and I got very clean brass, even some pretty nasty looking range p/u brass came out looking ok by the end.

I will say the tumbling in SS Pins shortens that process by a lot and increases the effectiveness. Primer pockets are totally clean if I give the load enough tumble time for that level of clean. Process is then down to deprime (Lee universal deprime die) dump in tumbler of water with small amount of citric acid, splash of dish soap, and run for an hour or two. Maybe two and a half for really nasty brass. Once rinsed and drained just shake the pins out and dump brass on a towel to dry. Checking for SS pins still inside the case or in primer hole is a thing if you tumble with SS pins. Less time invested in a batch for sure I do still sometimes do the vibratory tumbler to apply the Nu Finish wax if I expect I will store the brass for a long time. Give it a bit of protective cover if it is going into the long term stash.

You know that old adage, take care of your long term stash and you long term stash will take care of you :-)

I use it. Works great. I just use regular hot water from the tap. Half fill a 5 gal bucket. A teaspoon of lemonshine and a squirt of Dawn. Let it sit for a few hours. Works great. I also deprime before soaking. Then give them a tumble with Nufinish after wards. Inhave had problems with brass corroding. The Nufinish helps combat the corrosion.

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Pristine case interiors don't do anything for me, but I guess it could be attractive to some. I used the old "NRA" formula in the early 70s before I got a rotary (out of curiosity only as I had zero issues with my "brown" handloads. I reloaded about 12 years before I got a tumbler, no ruined/scratched dies or chambers with cases wiped with a solvent dampened rag, or just sloshed in the "formula"). More often than not just soaking/agitating in the water/vinegar/critic acid/soap cleaner got the cases clean and bright, no need to soak and tumble...

This subject reminds me of a conversation with an old timer about polishing brass with solution and pins to get shinier than new brass. He mentioned; "I wonder if these guys clean and Armor All the inside of the tires on their pick ups?"...

I’m the same... pretty brass is not what I’m looking for. But fouled primer holes do make me think twice. I probably will not wash the brass every time as much as keep an eye on the primer holes and proactively use the citric acid wash when they start to look particularly crusty.

It will be interesting to see the difference between citric acid cleaning dirty brass that hasn’t been tumbled/vibrated and the brass that I’m cleaning now. I had a bunch of brass that I already cleaned and noticed the interior to still be pretty crusty. It was only after I vibrated them that I saw the acid wash method and decided to give it a try.

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Originally Posted by mdi

Pristine case interiors don't do anything for me, but I guess it could be attractive to some. I used the old "NRA" formula in the early 70s before I got a rotary (out of curiosity only as I had zero issues with my "brown" handloads. I reloaded about 12 years before I got a tumbler, no ruined/scratched dies or chambers with cases wiped with a solvent dampened rag, or just sloshed in the "formula"). More often than not just soaking/agitating in the water/vinegar/critic acid/soap cleaner got the cases clean and bright, no need to soak and tumble...

This subject reminds me of a conversation with an old timer about polishing brass with solution and pins to get shinier than new brass. He mentioned; "I wonder if these guys clean and Armor All the inside of the tires on their pick ups?"...

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I think the whole subject of Lemishine and citric acid is very overblown. I use a Thumblers tumbler with SS pins. I get the same results with or without citric acid. For citric acid I just usecon centrated lemon juice. I cant see how the brass could possibly be shinier or the inside and primer pockets be cleaner. They look brand new no matter what I use with the SS pins. Ive used nothing but a splash of dish soap. Ive also used a splash of Simple green. Its the mechanical action of the stainless pins IMO that accomplishes what we want. The citric acid might just accomplish the same results a bit faster. I usually leave the brass in the tumbler about 1-2 hours at most. I usually forget because the Thumblers is pretty quiet.

Citric acid is purposeful for softening hard water (particularly if you are on well water) which allows the dish detergent to work better on a molecular level.

It has no direct bearing on cleaning the actual brass other than to leach some of the tin from the brass if left to soak too long. If that happens then the dreaded rose gold (more exposed copper) thing happens.

Some simply employ too much lemishine and thus the acidic level of the water rises and it really does more harm than good in those cases ... and to those cases.

A little dab will do you no matter if you are wet tumbling or hand agitating in a bucket. My rule is one 9mm case per gallon of water max. I am on a deep well below the fall line and my water is particularly hard.

With regard to water temperature hotter is better but boiling is unnecessary. Again, the hot water acts on a molecular level to excite the powder residue and carbon residue which causes the fouled leftovers to expand and crack when combined with H²O and soap thus making it easier to be agitated-off by stirring or chipped-off in the tumbling process as the pins make contact.

Remember ... the wet tumbling process causes friction which also produces heat. Many of us who are long time reloaders and obsessed with our brass cleaning methodologies can attest to the fact that cold water in comes-out warmer ... and hot water in stays warm longer even on cold days. This is due to the friction between brass and brass and brass and pins.

Whereas, when dry tumbling with various medias such as corn cob or walnut or even the crushed pecan shells many of us down here mix with corn cob ... it is more of a gentle griding action akin to mirror polishing or car polishing which is why so many of us used NuFinish in our media for years ... and still do.

There are many ways to skin a cat and that definitely holds-true for cleaning brass. We all do it differently and go to greater, or lesser, extremes to achieve desired results. My particular regime is detailed and exact and somewhat labor intensive but I am perhaps a little anal when it comes to my brass even going so-far as to load with nitrite gloves ... my fingers never touch pills, primers or cases from dirty-range-pickup to storage inside my neatly labeled boxes or ammo cans (depending upon caliber and purpose). And I do use citric acid (lemishine) in this very hard water of mine. I also rinse judiciously and dry in a dehydrator after tossing in a big fluffy towel to soak-up most of the residual moisture once it comes out of the tumbler and I've had a chance to magnetize the pins away from the brass.

Second this, deprime first then clean!

Don't leave them sit to long in the mix or your brass may come out looking black. Not gonna tell ya how I know[smilie=b:

Lol... I donit because I am lazy. I toss my shots shell cases in the washing machine. Shhh... dont tell the wife.

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I always deprime first, then stainless steel pin wet tumble with citric acid and hot water with car wash, dried on a towel then stuck in a warm oven, then I vibrate tumbled with corncob media and mother's carnauba wax when all brass prep operations are done. Keep stored in 1 or 2 gallon zip loc bag with vci sheets inside to stop any staining or corrosion of brass ready to load all stored by type in dated , labeled 5 gallon, plastic o ring sealed buckets stacked in concrete floored sealed lockable storage room . Maybe I over do it just a bit!

Citric acid softens the residue in primer pockets very well if they’re decapped; not that there’s much benefit to cleaning them. Maybe for benchrest and 1000 yard+ shooters but not much for the rest of us.

I agree that there’s no need to boil the citric acid solution. For cleaning large batches of brass I make the solution in a porcelain lined stock pot and keep it at 150-160 degrees F. That will take dark, heavily oxidized brass to bright in a few seconds. The only time I use citric acid is for the initial cleaning of heavily oxidized/tarnished brass like the 3000 pieces of milsurp 5.56 I bought one time. After that I use fine corn cob, NuFinish and a little mineral spirits.

I don’t process a lot of brass and am content cleaning it by hand. I’m not trying to have the shiniest brass at the range. In fact, I think citric acid dulls it a bit. I’ve read and believe that the acid does a type of conversion to the surface that prevents oxidation.

I deprime and then wash in hot water and dish soap, with a quick pass of a bronze or nylon bore brush in each one. I then rinse before putting them into warm water and citric acid. The they are rinsed. If they are not rinsed sufficiently they will streak. I don’t mix the acid with detergent because detergent is basic and I feel one would only counter act the other. I like the idea of using liquid car wax and plan to use it next time with my final rinse.

I may get a wet tumbler with pins in the future and if I do, I will tumble with dish detergent and rinse before using citric acid.

I wet tumble with SS pins using 1/4 tsp Citric acid, a squirt of Dawn dish soap and 1/2 gal of water after sizing and depriming. It gets nice and shiny and clean.

I have never seen the need for hot/boiling water in a SS tumbler.
I put the deprimed brass in my Lyman wet tumbler, fill nearly full with cold tap water, add 1/2 teaspoon citric acid, and give it a squirt of Dawn dish soap.
Tumble for 3 hrs. and the brass is brighter than new.
I rinse the tumbled bras a few times with clean tap water.
It gets dried on a dark towel in the sun in the summer and in the dehydrator in the winter.

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Originally Posted by dale2242

I have never seen the need for hot/boiling water in a SS tumbler.
I put the deprimed brass in my Lyman wet tumbler, fill nearly full with cold tap water, add 1/2 teaspoon citric acid, and give it a squirt of Dawn dish soap.
Tumble for 3 hrs. and the brass is brighter than new.
I rinse the tumbled bras a few times with clean tap water.
It gets dried on a dark towel in the sun in the summer and in the dehydrator in the winter.

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I couldn’t agree with Dale more.
I don’t care about shiny brass either, but I do want it clean for the sake of my dies. No dust or abrasives.

Ymmv

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I use the ever popular lanolin/alcohol mix for a case lube. The lanolin leaves a film that can be stubborn. Adding a splash of degreaser concentrate to the tumbler got rid of it in a hurry.

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Originally Posted by BamaNapper

I use the ever popular lanolin/alcohol mix for a case lube. The lanolin leaves a film that can be stubborn. Adding a splash of degreaser concentrate to the tumbler got rid of it in a hurry.

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Woolite works too.

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Originally Posted by fatnhappy

Woolite works too.

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Is that regular Woolite or the one in the black bottle?

I heard that. Didn't have Woolite already at home. Purple Power concentrate was $5 for a half gal jug at Walmart. Cheaper, plus I have more uses for the degreaser than I'd have for Woolite. Besides, the wife won't use it so I know it'll be there.

I had read that the regular woolite was what people were using on their brass.

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Originally Posted by BamaNapper

I heard that. Didn't have Woolite already at home. Purple Power concentrate was $5 for a half gal jug at Walmart. Cheaper, plus I have more uses for the degreaser than I'd have for Woolite. Besides, the wife won't use it so I know it'll be there.

I had read that the regular woolite was what people were using on their brass.

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Thanks brutha. I used regular Woolite today since my wife had some on hand. It worked pretty good, but I’m going to check this out tomorrow at Wally World.

regular woolite. I was delighted to finally find a use for the half dozen bottles that have been in my laundry room for 20 years. The bonus being a reloading related usage.

prost!

Woolite in cold water will keep you 44 mag brass from shrinking to 357 mag.

But I prefer to use powdered Cascade dishwashing machine detergent. I believe it already has some citric acid powder in it. Which is probably the reason you’re not supposed to wash fine bone China particularly if it has gold in the pattern because the pattern will get faded out.

I did try a Cascade Platinum dishwashing machine Pod. Wow, It cleaned inside as shiny as the outside. But the colour of the brass came out a darker old gold, like an old brass candle holder not shiny like the brass in the post #23 photos.

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Originally Posted by greenjoytj

Woolite in cold water will keep you 44 mag brass from shrinking to 357 mag.

But I prefer to use powdered Cascade dishwashing machine detergent. I believe it already has some citric acid powder in it. Which is probably the reason you’re not supposed to wash fine bone China particularly if it has gold in the pattern because the pattern will get faded out.

I did try a Cascade Platinum dishwashing machine Pod. Wow, It cleaned inside as shiny as the outside. But the colour of the brass came out a darker old gold, like an old brass candle holder not shiny like the brass in the post #23 photos.

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Sounds interesting, may have to give this a try. I’m really impressed cleaning with this method. The thing always holding me back was the steel pins, but they really aren’t necessary.