Ok to long load 38spl case to mild .357 levels ?

This is in a 357 revolver of course . I am wanting to try out some 190 gr ranch dog bullets in my 686 cant find much data for that weight in the 38 spl but do have some for the 357. So instead of craming that long bullet into a 357 case can I just load them cylinder length in a 38 spl case with start to middle of the road loads using 357 data ? Just looking for 800-900 fps loads . I loaded up a dummy last night and seems 1.640" about where I'd be able to crimp at into a groove with a 38 case .

Tim

If you do this, and even if they don't fit, be sure to label profusely with warnings against loading in a 38 special.

I've loaded a Lyman 358-156 clone in .38 special brass with 6.2gr CFE Pistol, crimped in the bottom crimp groove. More oomph than .38 special pressures and goes bang with decent accuracy, the case handles the pressure fine. Likewise this is only for use in .357 pressure-rated firearms, same as you're looking to do. I prefer to just use .357 brass, but I have some odds n' ends of .38 spec. that end up on the rotation.

Just be sure you clearly have a way of segregating such loads so that they will not be mistakenly loaded in a .38 special, either by yourself or someone else (too long at that listed OAL for most anyway). I'm big on labeling to prevent future errors. One of my big fears is that I end up incapacitated or expired by some means and 15 or 20 years from now my kids (kindergarten age now) decide to shoot up some of dad's old reloads, only to end up with a grossly inappropriate combination of gun and ammo and end up minus a finger or eyes.

For cast bullets, you don't need to crimp into a crimping groove. You can simply crimp into the side of the bullet wherever it needs to be, as long as you're not crimping into a lube groove.

And yes, label them as .357 Magnum loads, and probably use a Sharpie on the bases to remind you they're "different".

Hope this helps.

Fred

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Originally Posted by ReloaderFred

For cast bullets, you don't need to crimp into a crimping groove. You can simply crimp into the side of the bullet wherever it needs to be, as long as you're not crimping into a lube groove.

And yes, label them as .357 Magnum loads, and probably use a Sharpie on the bases to remind you they're "different".

Hope this helps.

Fred

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Thanks all , yeah kinda hard not to crimp into a lube groove on the RD bullet though the entire length of it is covered in lube grooves as it's a TUmble lube design . But point taken.

I have been doing it for years. they are called .38-44. search skeeter skelton. there will be a lot of good stories plus 2 tables of loads you are asking about.

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Originally Posted by bob208

I have been doing it for years. they are called .38-44. search skeeter skelton. there will be a lot of good stories plus 2 tables of loads you are asking about.

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I was about to say something about Skeeter's loads too. I loved his articles.

I do this too, but am careful that cartridge OAL in the .38 Special case is the same as the published load in Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition (2010) for the .357, and I segregate my. 38 Spl.+P+ headstamped brass for such loads which I use in my Rugers and Marlin lever actions only.

I am thinking that if you can color the cases of odd loads then you got them color coded and keep notes .It might be easy that way. To not get the ammo mess up. I have use a sharpie and in time after handle and it gets worn off. When I get around to it .I will try the outside hulls of walnuts and see if the cases will take the dye from it and use the cases for this one reason.Just a idea to see if it will work. Have some english walnut trees on my place.

I routinely load full powered .357 in .38 cases, BUT to .357 OAL. This generally keeps them sticking out the front of .38Spl revolvers I've slipped them into. I agree with Silvercreek above about definitely labeling them as over pressure for .38 Spl. I have no .38 Spl revolvers and don't share ammo. It's still something I keep in the back of my mind to be careful about.

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Originally Posted by KVO

I've loaded a Lyman 358-156 clone in .38 special brass with 6.2gr CFE Pistol, crimped in the bottom crimp groove. More oomph than .38 special pressures and goes bang with decent accuracy, the case handles the pressure fine. Likewise this is only for use in .357 pressure-rated firearms, same as you're looking to do. I prefer to just use .357 brass, but I have some odds n' ends of .38 spec. that end up on the rotation.

Just be sure you clearly have a way of segregating such loads so that they will not be mistakenly loaded in a .38 special, either by yourself or someone else (too long at that listed OAL for most anyway). I'm big on labeling to prevent future errors. One of my big fears is that I end up incapacitated or expired by some means and 15 or 20 years from now my kids (kindergarten age now) decide to shoot up some of dad's old reloads, only to end up with a grossly inappropriate combination of gun and ammo and end up minus a finger or eyes.

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This is exactly what has caused me to halt this practice.

Like many of my generation, I used to load cheap 38 Special brass to .357 levels using the lower crimp groove of the 358-156 and a heaping helping of 2400. My 357's took such loads in stride, for they were Colt's and N-frame Smiths with ample strength, and I was not tempted to use them in my snubby, for it said right in the instructions not for plus P, much less 357 wanta be's. But having had a number of friends and relatives pass over the great divide, leaving those of us left behind to deal with the detritus of their lives, I have discontinued loading "HOT' 38's and "magnum" 45 Colts "Ruger only loads. I might not be here to supervise their use and would not want one of my children or grand children to suffer because they didn't know that Papa used to run 'em to the edge. Ink can fade, labels fall off and keys to color schemes get lost. If you must experiment along these lines, load them and use them, don't stock pile them.

None of us is promised tomorrow.

I will admit to loading 38 Special casings to .357 mag levels and shooting them in .357 mag revolvers. I stopped that practice years ago and I will NOT repeat it. There's just too much danger of getting one of those cartridges in a 38 Special revolver and it just isn't worth the risk to me.
I understand the practices of labeling the ammunition, marking the casings, maintaining control over your own reloads, etc. and I believe others are careful when they make those cartridges but I prefer to just avoid the potential problem altogether.

I follow the doctrine that Petrol & Powder laid out, because Murphy's law gets no plea bargains--and in matters concerning propellant and its firearm interactions, Murphy can be naively optimistic.

Again thanks for the advice I don't plan on doing this all the time just wanted to try those heavy 190 RD bullets as I have a pail full of them I loaded up 18 rods with a mild load of 4.5 grs of unique I found that load on castpics article beagle wrote on the 38 spl with the heavy 358430 bullet figured it be safe with the 190 RD loaded long in the 38 case gonna go shot them tomorrow and see how they work .

Tim

Just wondering. If you did load 38 spl cases to 357 mag length. How would they ever fit into a 38 spl revolver? The overall leingth would be way to long.

I load 148 gr DEWC in 38 cases and crimp them in a lube groove to an OAL just short of 357 cylinder length.
No way they could be chambered into a 38 cylinder, it would never close.
:grin:

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Originally Posted by Jniedbalski

Just wondering. If you did load 38 spl cases to 357 mag length. How would they ever fit into a 38 spl revolver? The overall leingth would be way to long.

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357 Magnum cylinder lengths can vary considerably. One of the more unusual situations involving S&W 357s is how cylinder length in K-frame (medium-sized) 357s is longer than the cylinders found in Model 27, pre-27, and Model 28 N-frame 357s, which are larger in size and stronger in metallurgy. S&W FINALLY figured the dimensions out with their L-frame Model 581/585/681/, combining great strength and sufficient length to the 357 charge holes to fully exploit the caliber's capabilities. No good deed goes unpunished, though--no sooner does S&W bring the L-frames to market then SAAMI lowers the pressure gradient for the 357/41/44 Magnums from 42K CUP to 36.5K PSI. This lower standard enables the J-frame S&Ws and Winchester 73 repros (both Pasta and Rice versions) to survive factory ammo without bending or breaking. If I seem disillusioned by this turn of events, no worries--I'll get over it.

The 357 Magnum is by some distance the most useful centerfire handgun that I own. A good-quality double-action 357 Magnum with 4" barrel does more things well than just about any conventional sidearm ever concocted. It is by some distance my most-fired handgun caliber, and it goes along anytime back-country travel is on the agenda. The Glock 20SF is the only autopistol I own that approaches the 357 revolver in terms of power, utility, and adaptability. Mag capacity makes a difference, so both arms go along to the wilder places, and a Win 94 in 38/55 or a Mini-14 x 223 goes behind the truck seat. Critters need whacking from time to time, and few things civilize the feral heart and mind like alibi rounds across the bow appropriately administered. "Snakes in the grass & bears in the woods......"--y'all know the drill.

Very good advice in Rintinglen's #11 post. BTW, 357 brass is probably more available than 38 Special nowadays. I'd stick to the appropriate brass and pressure levels.

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So instead of craming that long bullet into a 357 case can I just load them cylinder length in a 38 spl case with start to middle of the road loads using 357 data ?

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A properly sized case and enough flare at the mouth will allow seating that bullet.

Rod

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If you must experiment along these lines, load them and use them, don't stock pile them

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Great advice! I have a hard time stockpiling ammo anyway {g}:D

I have a lot of them stock piled it is real simple. nickel plated cases are the hot loads brass are standard .38 spl. loads.

Well RU, looks like you and most of the other posters can't be trusted to keep your hot 38s separate from standard loads. How Bob was able to come up a with something akin to rocket surgery or brain science to keep things separate is unbelievable.
I must be a mensa candidate because I use the same method plus use the Keith and Thompson designs exclusively in the hot ones.
I don't want to insult the safety first crowd, even tho they don't mind insulting the people who don't wear safety vests in traffic. Do most of the posters work for the government?

While I don't work for the government any more (guilty as charged), my typical day in an ICU suggests that it is much less work to shake a finger than it is to suture one back on.

I don't work for the Gov't and I am not so sure it matters much anyway. I am glad the Government employs folks like our armed services, and police to keep us safe. salvadore not sure what your point was. Actually I do I just can't be bothered to go there.

I have a lot of reloaded ammo around my gun room and as a wise man said, "tomorrow is promised to no man". I have two sons who will share all my reloading "junk" and I have no intention of leaving them any ammo that had the potential of biting them. I load within manual specs and seem to find what I am looking for within the bands outlined in the manual. The days of wanting to print the checkering on my palms are long gone.

Laslty, I am not infallible. I make mistakes. Strive as I might for safety I know Murphy lives and does visit at the most inconvenient times. I do admire, sort of, those who never make mistakes, they seem to be blessed I guess. They are of course, blessed that is, until, well if you shoot any of the shooting sports there is no need to finish the sentence.

Take Care
Bob

I shot A LOT of SKEETER LOADS growing up, for the same reason SKEETER did. Brass for .38 spl was a whole lot cheaper & more plentiful than .357 MAGNUM CASES.
We always kept our brass for those loads clean, sized, expanded, and primed. Ready to load. With an old BELDING & MULL Powder Measure pre-adjusted for 13.5grs of 2400, and a separate seating/crimping die dedicated to only that bullet/crimp combo. We could turn out 500rds in about 1 & 1/2 hours. The loads were then put loose into a .30cal ammo can with a RED LID, very well labeled. Then off to the range or Desert the next morning, where all the ammo was shot up & the can was shot empty.
My DAD was pretty paranoid about that .357MAGNUM LOAD being SHOT in a .38SPECIAL Chambered gun. He had an old COLT DETECTIVE Special blown up when I was a little kid. He said there are always some people that just won't listen to WARNINGS OR READ LABELS.
I haven't used that load in 30yrs. .357mag & .38spl have been the same price and availability since the mid 1980's.
I keep light loads in .38 Special cases & heavy loads in .357 Magnum cases. Save for .44spl/.44mag. .45Colt loads are std pressure. I sold my CASULL years ago.
If I need a hot load, I have MAGNUM GUNS FOR MAGNUM LOADS.
Easiest way to do it. If I should suddenly die, my conscience will be clear that nobody blew off their hand(s) because of my loads. I'm 64yrs old. I don't plan on dying anytime soon, but there's always that "MYSTERIOUS BUS" that could hit you at anytime.