30 XCB Pan Lubed VS Powder Coated results

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4d3235e6e0.jpgSo I see people always talking about powder coated VS PC but never see any side by side stuff. Well instead of complaining about stuff I like to try and so what I want to see done soooo.
As y'all know I've gotten ahold of the famous 30XCB mold ( NOE 310-165-FN-H3), it's apparently made so it just works in stuff like .308/30-06 . So figured it was a good candidate for this test .
Bullets where cast out of my usual crappy Clip on wheel weight mix...that a probably should have thrown out a year again but whatever [emoji1787], the Pan lubed ones where water dropped from the mold and the PC ones where water dropped out the mold and out the oven. Could possibly be a variable but not super sure till I test both.

Both were gas checked with the same Hornady checks . The PC ones where sizes and ched before coating and sized again after coating the pan lubed ones where checked and sized after pan lubing
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Cases are mixed head stamp 30-06 all the normal cases prep stuff necks expand with the NOE .311x.307 expander plug. NO CRIMP so shouldn't be any distortion to the bullet at all.
Now as far as seating depth they need two separate ones I know for a fact the lubed ones where kissing the lands ,you can probably see the mark here , but no problems with bullets being pulled
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The powder coated need deeper
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And our set up, 50yd front rest rear bag my chopped m1917, magneto speed Chrono
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And the results! Now I shot the lubed ones on the right first then the PC on the left. I also bore scoped the bore before shooting either then after shooting both
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Looks like the lubed ones shot much better.

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Originally Posted by lar45

Looks like the lubed ones shot much better.

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I concur.

Donavan. What were the velocities like?

Mr Gibson is on record as stating he has not had great success with PC’ed bullets.

Now, some folks have had success with PC’ed rifle bullets.

There may be too many variables to make a blanket statement of which way is superior.

I decided long ago I am not talented enough to achieve my standards of rifle accuracy with cast bullets. But I try to stay informed in case the need to shoot cast becomes a necessity. Should that day ever come, I will be leaning on the information Mr Gibson has shared with us. I will be using 2500 or Carnuba Red to see what my rifles prefer. I have 10 sticks of each in inventory.

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Originally Posted by dverna

Mr Gibson is on record as stating he has not had great success with PC’ed bullets.

Now, some folks have had success with PC’ed rifle bullets.

There may be too many variables to make a blanket statement of which way is superior.

I decided long ago I am not talented enough to achieve my standards of rifle accuracy with cast bullets. But I try to stay informed in case the need to shoot cast becomes a necessity. Should that day ever come, I will be leaning on the information Mr Gibson has shared with us. I will be using 2500 or Carnuba Red to see what my rifles prefer. I have 10 sticks of each in inventory.

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Well said.

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Originally Posted by waco

Donavan. What were the velocities like?

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What's up bud ! Sorry I dit lost thises int rh FB group, got banned and my device is on a list apparently so looks like no more FB for me ....for now lol
But Lubed 1880 and PC 1890

Looks like any of them are within a minute of deer.

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Originally Posted by lar45

Looks like the lubed ones shot much better.

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I found they usually do.

I couldn't find my results but the targets I had were nearly identical for lubed (lubesizer) and PC.

Did you weight sort the bullets and size after PC?

PS found it. Note shot #1 for me always goes a little high.

Attachment 320995

PPS I did the test to determine if it was worth the extra time to PC or the extra cost for someone to buy a lubesizer. I do find the lubesizer easier to use and quicker.

Thanks for posting. Well done and informative.

PC needs a 1/2 hr cook before WD to get hardness up. 10 min doesn't work. It's the way hardening works. I was getting MOA from my PC cast @ 200yds 308 AR10, 2400 fps.

Popper

What boolit and what twist rate on your AR 10 barrel? Nice shooting!

That’s some fine shooting Popper ! I also would like to know what bullet/mold and twist ? This is great info , thanks for sharing Wolfdog91 !

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Originally Posted by popper

PC needs a 1/2 hr cook before WD to get hardness up. 10 min doesn't work. It's the way hardening works. I was getting MOA from my PC cast @ 200yds 308 AR10, 2400 fps.

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Like to see those targets.

Thank you for doing this test and posting the results.

I still lube for my deer guns. 44 mag and .475 linebaugh.
I have thought about powdercoating for them, but may just leave well enough alone.

Mine were shot without hardening, either lubed or PC. And, yes, they hold pretty close to MOA out to 200yd and beyond, avg about 1.5MOA even at 500yd.

when looking at the match results in the "fouling shot" 95% + shooters use convential lubed bullets. do you think that there is a reason for that?? i guess that some guys just like pretty colors and do not care about accuracy

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Originally Posted by porthos

when looking at the match results in the "fouling shot" 95% + shooters use convential lubed bullets. do you think that there is a reason for that?? i guess that some guys just like pretty colors and do not care about accuracy

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And a lot of the old guys are very set in there ways and don’t want to try “new” things. PC can be very accurate if you do it correctly. Nothing wrong with sticking to the old way but to say PC won’t work just because you can’t do it is just not true. Plenty of guys out there are getting great groups at 200 plus yards and running 2200fps+
Just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by porthos

when looking at the match results in the "fouling shot" 95% + shooters use convential lubed bullets. do you think that there is a reason for that?? i guess that some guys just like pretty colors and do not care about accuracy

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Actually last time I checked the .22cals results there where a lot of high placements with HI tech or PC.
Honestly from my findings you can get powder coat to work very well it's just alot of people honestly don't want o put in the effort to trying to learn anything new or experiment, the whole its its not broken don't fix it bs mentality. And honestly a lot of these guys are pretty set in their ways and just plain don't try anything new ,and if they do it usually the most half butted crap to where you can see everything wrong at a moments notice.
I see it alot with trappers got a guy who's been doing something the same way for 20yrs thinks it's the best an sonly way because XYZ and he finally tries something new , comes back and talk about how crappy it is and how his way was obviously better, yeah but then you look at how he implemented the new things and he was setting it up to fail from the get to.
I see the same with a lot in casting

And, running bullets through a lube sizer is a lot simpler and faster than doing PC. Most of the time you have to size the bullet anyway (as well as crimping on a GC) so adding PC is a lot more time than just the lube.

Don't get me wrong, I like PC and still do it with several of my molds, like the Acc 31-210E.

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Originally Posted by Wolfdog91

Actually last time I checked the .22cals results there where a lot of high placements with HI tech or PC.
Honestly from my findings you can get powder coat to work very well it's just alot of people honestly don't want o put in the effort to trying to learn anything new or experiment, the whole its its not broken don't fix it bs mentality. And honestly a lot of these guys are pretty set in their ways and just plain don't try anything new ,and if they do it usually the most half butted crap to where you can see everything wrong at a moments notice.
I see it alot with trappers got a guy who's been doing something the same way for 20yrs thinks it's the best an sonly way because XYZ and he finally tries something new , comes back and talk about how crappy it is and how his way was obviously better, yeah but then you look at how he implemented the new things and he was setting it up to fail from the get to.
I see the same with a lot in casting

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You might be right, but it is unlikely. People who shoot competively want to win. They will latch on to anything that accomplishes that goal. Well, at least in the shooting sports I have participated in. Maybe cast bullet competitors are different…like really stupid old guys…lol. But I doubt it.

I would not discount what the top shooters are doing.

I think some of them have tried it and it doesn't do better, just the same. So why bother with it.

Wolfdog,
That is an excellent experiment. I'll be interested if, at some point, you will be able to quantify the results. Popper's thoughts are surely valid, but I think your COWW alloy would be good enough for 1900fps loads, if it wasn't properly hardened after PC bake and drop. What I do wonder about, if the PC and/or the seating depth had some negative effects on getting a square launch. Did you check runout of the loaded round, for both Lubed and PC?

1:10 16" carbine. 31- 165B or C.

My observations of 30 cal barrels for ARs is that many/most do not come throated in a manner conducive for most cast profiles. I've seen more than several 300 BO, 7.62x39 and a 300 Ham'r that have very short, abruptly cut throats. They just about all shoot cast just fine when you find a cast profile that will feed and function. I have seen only one 300 BO AR bbl that would eat just about any cast profile, even when powder coated. So much for nay sayers on shooting cast in a gas gun.

I've often thought that a little judicial work with the proper throating reamer would be a really good enhancement. Never tried it though.

I've had similar results in .308 with a Remington 700. Pan lube shot better in all my tests.

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Originally Posted by sundog

My observations of 30 cal barrels for ARs is that many/most do not come throated in a manner conducive for most cast profiles. I've seen more than several 300 BO, 7.62x39 and a 300 Ham'r that have very short, abruptly cut throats. They just about all shoot cast just fine when you find a cast profile that will feed and function. I have seen only one 300 BO AR bbl that would eat just about any cast profile, even when powder coated. So much for nay sayers on shooting cast in a gas gun.

I've often thought that a little judicial work with the proper throating reamer would be a really good enhancement. Never tried it though.

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My 7.62x39 AR loves this bullet
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Cast shooters bickering over which is better is like pavement engineers arguing over which is better: concrete or asphalt. They both work. I'll go to extra efforts to get the best possible accuracy out of my cast loads. That's why I swirl lube my PC bullets. If it made them shoot better I'd load the darn things backwards. Those guys that like lubed bullets should shoot them. The guys that like powder coated bullets should shoot those. It ain't about "pretty colors" and "lipstick bullets" vs a sticky mess, its about what each of us like doing, and what shoots best in our gun.

Wolfdog; that's some mighty fine shooting. Glad that your loads are working out for you.

LOL that's why I shoot both :)