Printable View
I've been kicking around the web looking for data for this powder. I have found no useful data as yet. I was given two pounds of this by a friend who got it from his dad's estate. I opened a can and it looks good. Can anyone point me in a direction for old H4227 data?
Attachment 284657
Try to find a Lee second edition Modern Reloading.
Look at thirty eight and three fifty seven cartridges. Not sure why my numbers just quit working.
Well suited for .32-20, .38-40, .44-40, .30 M1 Carbine, .357 and .44 Magnum. The old military surplus 4227 you have pictured in the paper canisters was probably salvaged WW2 .30 carbine pulldown and also used for the M35 .410 survival shot load.
Good for cast bullet rifle loads in most .30 cal. cartridges, and for approximating factory velocity in the .32-40, .38-55 and .45-70. 4227 burns a bit slower than Hercules #2400 of the same era.
That’s good news! I load .357, 44 mag and 45/70.
Checked Speer manual number 10 and it shows IMR 4227. I looked at .357 and 44 mag. 300 Win mag. Quit looking .
I think you will like it in 38/357 especially if you are loading the heavy keith bullets.
I have had excellent results with IMR4227 in 38 special, 357 magnum in revolvers and a bolt action rifle, and 308 winchester in a lever action and break action rifle.
At least you should have a starting point to work up safe loads, the older lee books have many loads with 4227 listed.
Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
I use it in small case cartridges like 22 Hornet and 17 Hornet
Here is a picture of the powder I am using, labeled as IMR 4227.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d52719bf8b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...72ef1476fb.jpg
Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Excellent for all Outpost75 mentions. Additionally I'll add the 7.62x39 with 110 - 125 gr jacketed bullets. Use 22.5 to 23 gr. With 123 gr AK/SKS bullet of .310/.311 diameter it equals milsurp velocity and pressure.
I love 4227 in 357 mag, 30 carbine, 45 Colt, 22 Hornet and others.
It is my go to powder for accuracy testing a new rifle. It consistently gives me the best groups.
Steve in N CA
IMR 4227 is used in reloading for 350 Legend as well.
The 1990 IMR publication has data for many cartridges. I like it in 30-30 and it is a standard in the 32-40 for target work.
Rick
I found this for the 45/70. I'm hesitant to use data for new H4227 or IMR 4227 so I'm still looking for published data for this very old H4227.
Attachment 284682
My 44-40 tests
John Kort seemed to prefer H4227
IMR-4227
"Blue" Below SAAMI max pressures
"Green" Group I Weak Action Rifles max loads
"Red" Group II Strong Action Rifles Only
Attachment 284685
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4exkGBF_yq0
I used it in .44 magnum. Got good accuracy. Not quite the velocity as with 2400 or 296 but good accuracy.
THG … here’s some 4227 loading data for your reading pleasure …. https://www.google.com/search?q=imr%...=firefox-b-1-m
if you go back through the old Lyman manuals or RCBS cast bullet manual there is load data using 4227 peppered throughout them in both rifle and pistol loads.
most recently I've been getting my most accurate 1200fps 45 colt carbine loads using 20 grains under a 265 grain bullet from mp454640
What is the difference in the two 4227's H & IMR?
both the same as far as I know
When Hodgdon bought IMR, they decided to keep IMR 4227 on the market because it out sold H4227- or so I read in a magazine at the time. A late friend preferred it in his 10-1/2 " Ruger SBH not because of the velocity but because of the year round consistency and accuracy.( the IMR version)
I'd be over the moon with your powder score- congratulations!
Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk
I recently read something online by John Taffin where he said that if you were having trouble getting accuracy in a handgun, try 4227, I don't remember if he specified IMR4227 or not. He did say that 4227 could give accuracy in those instances where anything else would not
That is all I remember except I did think that maybe I should get a pound when things eased up.
Started digging in my "library" and found a copy of the Modern Reloading 2nd Ed. Thank you for the tip.
My preferred powder for full power 45 Colt revolver, fine accuracy in 44 Mag, 357, 22 Hornet, 218 Bee, use for mild loads with cast boolits in 30-30, 32 Special, 308. Like most IMR powders, predictable pressure rise, not spiky/temperamental for load development. If I need more power out of a 45 Colt or 44 Mag handgun than I can get with 4227 - I carry a rifle.
I use it when breach-seating a 168 grain bullet in the 32-40
218 Bee, 17 Bee, 25-20 Single Shot, 32-20,32-40, 25-20 WCF, I use a lot of it.
Interesting... I have loaded lots of different powders including IMR4227. This is the first time I have read where so many think it produces the best accuracy if not the highest velocity. Gonna have to look at it again.
Jim
Best powder I’ve used for Ruger level 45 Colt loads. Not as much velocity as H110 but consistently accurate with cast or jacketed bullets. Outpost 75, do you have a reference stating 4227 was used by the government in the 30 carbine? Never heard or read that. Surplus WC 820 was sold by Hodgdon as H110 and Winchester as 296 and now are the same powder, differing only in lot to lot variation. WC820 (H110) was the original powder for the 30 Carbine
"Twenty two years after its introduction, the first .44 W.C.F. smokeless powder cartridge is found in Winchester's catalog No. 55, dated August, 1895. In its manufacture, Winchester used 17 grains of DuPont No. 2 "Rifle" powder which was a "bulk" type smokeless powder patented on August 22, 1893. DuPont's description of "bulk" smokeless powder indicated that it was to be loaded in "bulk" measure just like black powder.
In the .44 W.C.F., 17 grs. of DuPont No. 2 Bulk Smokeless occupied the same volume as 40grs. of FFG. Velocity was cataloged at 1,300 f.p.s. To identify the new .44 W.C.F. smokeless powder cartridges from those containing black powder, which looked identical, Winchester put a "W" in a circle on the primer." Dupont #2 had a similar burn rate as today's IMR-4227. However, Unlike 17gr of Dupont #2, 17gr of IMR-4227 is not a case capacity load but is a published load. Also unlike Dupont #2, IMR-4227 is formulated in a way that retards burning which prevents high pressure spikes.
Du Pont #1204, introduced in 1925, was directly replaced by IMR-4227 in 1935. 25gr to 30gr of #1204 was used in the 44-40 cartridge giving a 200gr JSP between 1,400 and 1,830fps (Sharpe 1937). IMR-4227 was superior and 29gr gave the 200gr JSP 1,890fps. No pressures listed for those loads but notes recommended by Dupont.
Lyman's 49th lists a max load, 17gr of IMR-4227 with a Lyman 427098. They claim 1,083fps with no pressure listed for Group I rifles like the Winchester 73'. I tested 17gr in my 20" MGM barrel I used for high pressure testing. 17gr with a 427098 resulted in 1,127fps (closely replicating modern Winchester Super-X ammo velocity) @ 9,500psi. I tested 20gr with a 43-215C (427098 replica) resulted in 1,418fps @ 16,500psi but also included .5cc of PSB shot buffer to keep the powder at the back of the case. IMR-4227 is position sensitive and could be why some of my early velocity tests were lower than the manual.
Lyman's 49th handloading manual shows a max load of 18.5gr of IMR-4227 with a Speer JHP@ 1,212fps. This load only gave me 1,097fps. 20gr of IMR-4227 produced 1,297fps but also created 12,000psi, just a tad over the 11,000psi max. A caseload (26gr) of IMR-4227 with the popular Magma type 200gr lead bullet resulted in 1,733fps but produced 20,913psi....only safe for Group II rifles like the Winchester 92/94 and Marlin's 1894. I am getting consistent 10 shot 4" groups at 100 yards.
On a side note, IMR-4227 was a direct replacement for IMR-1204
Lightly loaded Magnum (Mid -Range Rifle) powders work well out to 100 yards but if your desire is to shoot further, using a flatter trajectory...and retaining energy, a heavier higher pressure load is needed for a desired tighter group but only safe for strong action rifles like the Model 92. Winchester already accomplished this with their High Velocity loads by 1903 and and was manufactured until 1938 as the 44 WCF High Velocity (not for pistols or weak action rifles.).
IMR-4227 is IMR's Magnum powder just as 2400 was Hercules's Magnum powder. Both were called rifle powders long before they were called Magnum powders and are mid-range slower burning rifle powders...not faster burning pistol powders. Perfect powders for the 22 Hornet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4exkGBF_yq0
Attachment 285326
Attachment 285327
No printed reference, only pull-down powder from RA42 ball.
It is suppose to be a popular powder for the 357 MAXIMUM. That's what I use it for in my T/C G2 with a 12" bbl.
I think i have loaded 30/30 with it. i will have to look to make sure.