black powder cartridge question

I have several 45-70 BP cartridges that I loaded way back when with 70 gr. compressed 3f Goex and .405 bullets. I tried the load and my shoulder won't take the recoil anymore. I pulled the bullets but the powder is naturally compressed hard and I need to remove one way or another to empty the cases. My question is, do I take these to the range and fire them down range in my trap door or do I soak them and dig out the powder under water? I don't want to start a debate, just ya or nay on firing vs soaked ie, day or two and remove powder under water to prevent ignition.
Thanks
CT

Just fire them off! I did this with some 45/120 rounds that I could not send via post.

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Originally Posted by Cav Trooper

I have several 45-70 BP cartridges that I loaded way back when with 70 gr. compressed 3f Goex and .405 bullets. I tried the load and my shoulder won't take the recoil anymore. I pulled the bullets but the powder is naturally compressed hard and I need to remove one way or another to empty the cases. My question is, do I take these to the range and fire them down range in my trap door or do I soak them and dig out the powder under water? I don't want to start a debate, just ya or nay on firing vs soaked ie, day or two and remove powder under water to prevent ignition.
Thanks
CT

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3F Goex is worth salvaging where I live - dig it out dry - then shoot the primers off

I cant figure how you are gonna ignite the powder by digging it out of the case ? been there done it - still got all me fingers......................

Thanks, I’m not worried about the small amount of BP I’d waste. I just didn’t want to blow up my trapdoor or me. I do need to find a light load if I want to shoot the old Springfield again.

I'd dig it out but use a copper wire.

You have several ways of doing it. Shoot them, dig all the powder out or just take out some and weigh what you took out to get to whatever load you want. I have found that 60 to 65 grains in my trapdoor with a 405 or 500 grain bullet is about right for me these days.

WOW!! COPPER WIRE? now that is certainly a very good conductor for a spark!!

Toot, how would you salvage the powder?

Something made of wood.

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Originally Posted by toot

WOW!! COPPER WIRE? now that is certainly a very good conductor for a spark!!

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I think the point was non-sparking tools are made of non-ferrous metals.
Hell, if it scares you that badly just discharge it by touching the outside of the case before you dig.

If you can't handle the recoil from that load, simply have some one else fire them.

What he said/Ed

Bullets have already been pulled, I just need to empty the cases. I did try to dig one out but the powder came out super fine, not 3f, more like dust. I was asking if shooting that compressed load without a wad or bullet was safe for gun. I got my answer, thanks for the help.

Shoot them as blanks.
By the time you dig out the powder if it's compressed tight you will end up mostly with dust. You can screen the powder if you want.

Down the line you will most likely ruin that rifle trying to load light loads.

put the bullets back in and shoot em.

I’ve salvaged a lot of blackpowder rounds for components. Usually the solid compressed part of the powder is only the top 1/4” or so, and the rest of it falls out when that is broken up.

I bang up the salvaged powder in cap&ball pistols. Waste not, want not.

Of course, “rework” of explosive materials is a serious business, requiring care and consideration. If you don’t want to do it, you shouldn’t do it.

Maybe replacing a lighter boolit would reduce the recoil and allow you to shoot your investment in loading. The Ideal 457191 300-gr is good for plinking.

What are you planning for light loads?

whittle down a round wooden dowel or go to a hobby shop & get popsicle stick or a Tung depressor. use something wood. non sparking.

I load 27 GRAINS. of 4198 behind a 200 GR, a 405 GR. and a 500 GR. cast lead bullet. with a filler, tissue paper or cotton ball on top of the powder to keep it against the primer. when it is shot a lot of confetti blows out into the air. I am in no way recommending this load to any one, it is my load.

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Originally Posted by toot

WOW!! COPPER WIRE? now that is certainly a very good conductor for a spark!!

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what spark!!!???

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Originally Posted by toot

whittle down a round wooden dowel or go to a hobby shop & get popsicle stick or a Tung depressor. use something wood. non sparking.

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how are ya gonna make a spark digging compacted powder out of a BRASS case ????? I dont get it - enlighten me please

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Originally Posted by Lead pot

Shoot them as blanks.
By the time you dig out the powder if it's compressed tight you will end up mostly with dust. You can screen the powder if you want.

Down the line you will most likely ruin that rifle trying to load light loads.

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I did about a hundred of these my son had loaded with crappy lube - dug the powder out of about 35 till I got sick of it (Cheep Chinese powder so not a big gain) shot the rest of em off as blanks over the back fence (its a farm no next doors) - had to quit halfway through to let the rifle cool and cleaned it. I would check periodically that it wasnt getting too clogged up - can happen the residue closes the barrel completely and you get an airgap blow up.

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Originally Posted by toot

WOW!! COPPER WIRE? now that is certainly a very good conductor for a spark!!

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Copper is an excellent conductor but, I defy you to generate a spark with copper unless current is introduced. Brass is a pretty fair conductor also, ya know.

70 Grains of 3F with no projectile should not bother your rifle. As mentioned swab the barrel every 4 or 5 shot. When shooting patched round ball I keep a little spray bottle of alcohol handy and spray dry patches to clean out residue.

I am with the dig it out crowd. I take a sharp pick and an L pick ... pick with the sharp STEEL pick to loosen the packed powder ... take the L pick and finish loosening the powder. Poor it out into a clean container and use it in C&B revolvers ... even the very fine powder. I have repurposed powder a lot doing this. Lotza hype concerning whatever static alectricity around Black Powder. Look up trials trying to ignite BP with a static charge.

isn't copper wire used as a conductor of electricity, home & industry? maybe I missed that memo? right there is no spark when you turn on a light switch to make the lights come on? I think that is what makes houses with a gas leak blow up when this is done.? oh well use what ever you want to.

bigted, I did and a spark / static, will not set it off. I stand corrected. thanks' for the heads up on it.

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Originally Posted by toot

isn't copper wire used as a conductor of electricity, home & industry? maybe I missed that memo? right there is no spark when you turn on a light switch to make the lights come on? I think that is what makes houses with a gas leak blow up when this is done.? oh well use what ever you want to.

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blow the house up? yeah but there is a source - switches arc sparks and on the other end of that wire is a power station - the copper or brass pick (I use a steel one but lets stick to the story) has no source of power behind it so where will the spark come from ????? ya have me bamboozled ...............................(not hard to do I agree)

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Originally Posted by toot

WOW!! COPPER WIRE? now that is certainly a very good conductor for a spark!!

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Old wives tales!!!
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_...ks/sparks.html

Getty a sissy bag and shoot it. The bag will come in handy later when zeroing from the bench.

Attachment 287133

There is a difference between a white/blue spark and a red spark. Red sparks are hot :D

To remove the compressed plug of black powder from a 45-70 Government case just twist an appropriate size drill bit by hand into the case. Let the powder dust fall into your laundry tub, and sluice it away with the tap water. Filling the case with water will make twisting the drill easier.
No sense trying to salvage it because the dust that the drill scrapes away won’t be 3fg any more.

I have tried soaking and it is a mess. I soaked them and used a drill bit turned by hand. It worked but what a mess. I would top them off with some glitter put on an over shot card and have fun!

I have used a dental pick and still have all my fingers. Now I would advise you to shoot it out.