What ratio should i use for making chamber lube using Crisco and beeswax?
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What ratio should i use for making chamber lube using Crisco and beeswax?
If you are talking about capping off the cylinder to prevent chain fire you can use pure Crisco. You can mix it if you want something to stay a little harder in warmer climates. I would be stingy with the bees' wax. If you find it is still too loose, you can always add more.
For my 1851 Colt Navy, I make my own grease wads from wool felt and my standard black powder lube. Lube is 50/50 Crisco/beeswax. No problems to date.
Wayne
I need to consider making my own wool felt wads as well. Wayne, where do you buy your felt, and what thickness?
Regarding chamber mouth grease, I am going to experiment with "Udderly Smooth" lanolin skin moisturizer. The Victorian rifle shooters over at the British Militaria forums have discovered that dipping the noses of their already-lubed .577 Snider and .577-450 Martini cartridges just before firing into the little tub of Udderly Smooth results in perfect fouling control.
Lube over the chamber mouths doesn't prevent chain fires. A tight fitting ball does that. Chain fires come from the back end, generally when a loose fitting cap falls off. I find lube at the chamber mouth lubes the cylinder pin with each pull of the trigger and keeps my guns running indefinitely. During the civil war they didn't seem to use any lube at all.
Freak on a leash is quite right, But, have also heard of chain fire when someone who didn't know used patched roundballs in a revolver. Not the way to go.
A one-two-one ratio of Beeswax-Lambs tallow-Crisco or something similar depending upon the outside temperature, should give a decent all weather bullet/cylinder throat lube. I have never liked straight Crisco, but I do not shoot when it is really cold out. In that case, cold weather shooting with pure Crisco would likely be just fine.
I went to the trouble of punching out some thick lubed wool felt for wads for my revolvers to both help lube and to take up a bit of extra chamber space. Seemed to decrease my accuracy a bit and I had to stomp out a leaf fire a time or two and snuff out a flaming paper target as well, so I have stopped using lubed felt wads.
I don’t lube any more, it’s a mess.
I have loaded all 6 chambers and capped every other cylinder and could never get a chain fire from the rear. When I used undersized or out of round balls and no lube in the front of the cylinder, I got a chain fire pretty regularly. An extensive study was scientifically done, (I can't seem to find it) and the most prominent cause of a chain fire was dragging powder along with the ball upon seating and not having sufficient lube.Quote:
Originally Posted by freakonaleash
he MIGHT be quite right ...................but then again there might be more to itQuote:
Originally Posted by gunther
trouble is when we make definitive statements people wanna argue
I have had one chainfire --(two went off) just so happened it was a new purchase just arrived and in my rush to try it out I neglected to put my grease over the ball - only time I ever did that and got a chain fire ----coincidence ??? maybe
since I was not firing in view of a high speed camera on record I dont know which end of the cylinder caused the double ignition --we can only guess
look at pictures of these things firing in the dark and its a wonder the dang things dont explode every time we pull the trigger - theres flames shooting out for feet everywhere
whatever it takes to make a brew that is convenient to work with and effective under the shooting conditions you encounter at the timeQuote:
Originally Posted by barnabus
I use the same lube as I use on boolits for my rifles - pour a sheet of it onto wax (greasproof) paper in a flt tray, (that will be about 1/8" thick (max) then I cut little caliber size disks - store em in the fridge - when loading just press one in over the ball and squish it down - no mess no fuss . If I dont have the little cookie disks cut I have a pot of goop and use a wood tongue depresser to trowell the stuff into each cylinder.
when we started shooting capguns we used pump grease over the ball - it worked but man what a mess ! the stiffer lube is much easier and seems ok for accuracy
not using wads and nssa states we have to use grease over chamber.its stupid i know cuz after first shot most is gone
A few years back I was shooting a 36 navy at a gravel pit we used as a range, I got a chain fire reloaded and got another. A more experienced shooter came over and asked to see the revolver to wit he said two things. 1st the cyl bores were to sharp at the mouths I should slightly bevel them to swedge the ball not just shear them. When there is any problem with the bore mouth smoothing and slight beveling makes a big difference. 2d powder management, dont be sloppy when chargeing any powder left around the mouth will catch and in all probability end in chain fires. I beveled and still cut a nice ring of lead and kept the powder cleaned up stopped all chain fires. Also lubed wads help with fouling.
Graysmoke
Years ago when I had revolvers .
I too beveled the ends of the cylinder chambers.
It worked better with conical bullets .
And like you said , Swedged the boolits for a tighter fit.
But I also made sure all the cylinders were a working size to the barrel size better .
So what happened when you had a chain fire? I only read about it but looking where the bullets would have to exit I always thought your pistol would blow up, you would probably be bleeding from the forehead and if you still had all your fingers you should consider your self lucky.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graysmoke
But this happened to you and right after it happened you reloaded and continued to shoot? And it happened again and you didn't throw the pistol in the closest trash can or the nearest river? Wow!
mine was only one extra - the cylinder next in line went - just a smudge of lead down the side of the pistol, more noise and more recoil - noticeable enough to stop and figure out something was amiss ..........................Quote:
Originally Posted by Delkal
Just some things to think about and maybe check for...
It's not uncommon in modern reproduction revolvers to have some ovality to the chamber mouths. Get enough of the out-of-roundness and how the ball seats in is effected.
Another problem with chamber mouths is that the tooling used to deburr the edge can actually push on the soft steel more than it cuts it away with the result of a very small (diameter reducing) raised lip to the inside of the entrance into the chamber. When you push the soft lead bullet past the raised lip the bullet takes on that smaller dimension and then passes beyond it into the slightly larger chamber.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch-1
Beeswax = 0%, Crisco = 100%
I've always used straight Crisco in the chamber mouths - besides lubing the barrel/boolit, as the sloppiness spreads around the revolver during repeated firing, it makes for easier cleaning at the shooting session's end.
I nearly always make bold statements reflecting my experience. It does cause people to argue with me. it used to bother me a lot. These days I just don't care. Everybody should just do as they want, it doesn't affect me at all. I don't post my experience much anymore because people don't listen anyway. Waste of time.....Quote:
Originally Posted by indian joe
I have had a couple of chain fires. One out of a 1976 model replica Pietta 1851 Navy .36 cal. It was an older well used steel frame revolver and the face of the frame (recoil shield) had six slight indentations develop in the six places where the cylinder index notches fit against the frame at lock up. This era of Pietta apparently had some softer steel frames, or at least this one did. This of course also gave an excess of cylinder gap at lock up as well.
Was not a problem using factory caps, but when I started making my own caps, my first caps protruded a slight amount more off the nipples until I figured out a way to make them fit the nipples much better. Got along well for several cylinders full, then I suspect that I did not press the home made caps on quite tight enough and BOOM. FOUR chambers went off at once. This was a chain fire from the rear of the cylinder caused by the caps smacking the recoil shield under recoil of the firing chamber. The bottom chamber drove a ball into the ram rod that I had to dig out. All the other cylinders just blew the balls out the side and only left a small trace of lead along the side.
While it made a lot of smoke and a much louder boom, the velocity of the balls is so low that nothing is normally damaged during a chain fire. I had no damage. I have since altered my caps as well as the revolver. I filed the recoil shield flat and placed a thin hardened washer/shim around the cylinder where it contacts the recoil shield. No longer does the cylinder move excessively when firing and this fixed the wide cylinder gap as well.
One other chain fire happened with one adjoining chamber in my old original Colt 1861 Navy .36 cal. made in 1867. Same reason, home made percussion cap was not fitting properly and had too close a fit along the recoil shield and the old revolver had a bit of play at the recoil shield. Not nearly as much play as the Pietta that is 109 years younger than the Colt though.
I have fired plenty of cylinders full with no grease at the throats without chain fires. But, I normally do lube the throats just so I get some lube down the bore and along the yoke to help keep things rotating smoothly.
Edit: I always flare the front of my BP cylinder throats slightly so that the ball has an easier path into the throat. I still get a thin ring of lead sheared off, but not nearly as much as most reproduction revolvers have. They are usually quite undersized throats and egg shaped as well, so I ream them much closer to bore size with a slight added flare, and usually just use a slightly larger ball if necessary. I normally use a .380 ball for the .36 cal. revolvers. Easier to load and accuracy is better for sure.
Delkal; Why would you throw the gun away? And it just scrapped the side of the gun. I found the problem corrected it and still shoot the gun. The balls come out slower due to not going down the barrel in front of built up pressure. More smoke n noise than anything along with more recoil.
Graysmoke
if you lived in SC you would know how silly that is....Quote:
Originally Posted by pietro
100% Crisco worked fine when I lived in Southern California.
But when I moved to Arizona with our heat, it melted too easily
Y’all that mentioned beveling the chamber mouths, what tool did you use? I was thinking a hand turned reamer or a cone shaped stone.
I used an angled reamer that I got from Brownells for doing barrel muzzles crowns .
I just made a collar that fit the cylinder to hold it square.
It didn’t take long with that 45 angled reamer to take off that sharp square edge .
how did my post on lube ratio turn into this? Some cant stay on topic to save their lives
Barnabus: that is the joy of creating a thread on the forums. First rabbit to run, and there we go! I haven't had a thread yet that didn't go south.
BTW: my favorite lube is 100% lard, in the Fall/Winter/Spring and a mix of 1-to-3 beeswax/lard for Summer. I found. years ago, that lard improved my groups. Don't ask me why: all I know (and a couple of gents I was associated with that shot BP Competitions tried it and switched) is that it works.
Are you trying to say :hijack:
Sorry I didn't see your response before this. I got the wool felt from a local JoAnn Fabric store (there is probably an equivalent in TX.) I didn't bother to measure, but did check to make sure it was 100% wool felt. I use the lid from a large tin and cut the felt to fit. Then pour melted lube to saturate. A hollow punch of the correct size completes the job. When using a very soft lube, the wads have a tendency to stick together, so getting them apart in good shape to use can be a challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abert Rim
Wayne
I started my black powder adventure with a revolver, a cheap brass framed one. My wife got it for me for Christmas '73. I took it to the farm to try it out that afternoon. All the men went with me to see the spectacle!!! And a spectacle it was! I failed to put grease over the balls and the balls were a bit irregular and I had serious chain fire, like all six went off at once! The ball in bottom cylinder lodged in frame. Oddly enough it didn't damage the gun or ME! I shot it for many years afterward until the frame got hammered out, giving the cyl a lot of play. I then made a steel ring to take up the play and shot it some more! Sold or traded it, I don't remember.....Have fun!...LK
Longknife, I did the same around the same time, only couldn’t do the steel ring replacement. I just found a steel frame to replace the brass, works just fine still shooting it. Never had a chain fire due to loose caps, only on powder management or mismanagement to be correct. SLOPPY LOADING!
Graysmoke
They dont listen to me either :grin: but I figure I must need the typing practice. If you reckon its more likely a chain fire starts at the back - I proly agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by freakonaleash
Same here. There have been numerous chain fires caught on video, and on a frame by frame analysis, shows that they all started at the nipple. The only chain fire I ever had, was on an 1860 Army. It was a mouse fart load of 12 gr of powder behind the .454 dia ball, and the chamber mouths were completely packed with CVA lube. Impossible for it to start in the front.Quote:
Originally Posted by indian joe
As to the original post, you will have to play with your lube a bit, because I have found that your environment plays a big part of it. Here in MO, what works in the summer, won't work in the winter, and vice versa, and none of my lubes like south Texas where I pig hunt, as they don't soften the fouling enough in the dry heat there, a couple of cylinders full and things start to get a bit gummy.
Not long after having two chain fires in the same Pietta Shooters Model. (I ignored the owners manual instructions to use a .465” ball and used the same .457” balls I used in my other revolvers. I seldom use lube pills and didn’t in this case.) This resulted in two chain fires so I cleaned the gun and put it away until I had the proper balls.
This raised the question. Are they caused from the front or the rear of the cylinder? I loaded a revolver which had never chain fired in my normal manner but I left the caps completely off of the cone on every other chamber. Fired every other chamber without issue. Feeling brave I reloaded those 3 chambers and then capped one chamber. Bang. Proceeded to cap each advancing chamber and fire them all normally. This was using a Colt 1860. I’ve done the same with the Remington Shooter referred to above and later with a Ruger Old Army. I have never been able to get a revolver to chain fire other than by using an undersized ball.
I contend that if you use the proper size ball or bullet in a revolver in good repair you will never experience a chain fire. Or at least that’s been my experience of the past 60+ years.