202gr 7.62x54r, H4831 vs. H4895 starting load?

Hello. I will be firing some 202gr NOE 316299 boolits out of my M39 Mosin Nagant. I have both H4831 and H4895 powders, which were recommended to me for this application. However, my reloading manuals don't have any data for these powders. Based on my searching of this forum, I have come to the conclusion that 28gr would be a good starting load with the H4895, and 40gr for the H4831. Could someone confirm that these are safe/good starting points for my loads? Also, would the use of Dacron be advised in conjunction with either of these powders? Thanks.

I would use the duft of dacron with the 4895, I cant advise with the slower powder as Ive never used it before.

Tim

My best groups using 4895 were with a 32 gr. I think that 28gr is a good starting point. However 32 gr of varget gave me better groups.

Starting loads for both powders;

4895; 28 gr

4831; 36 gr

Use a 1/2 - 3/4 gr dacron filler with both. If you get to 85% loading desnity with the 4831 (probably won't before accuracy goes south) drop the dacron filler. work up in 1 gr increments with both. Accuracy/velocity test with minimum of 5 shot groups but 7 - 10 shot groups is much, much better for reliable assurance the load is consistent. When you find the accuracy load then teak at +/- with 1/2 gr. Do final group testing with 10 shot groups at 100 yards.

Larry Gibson

I just read something about not to use fillers, something about the barrel ringing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by filric48

I just read something about not to use fillers, something about the barrel ringing.

---

Barrels (actually chambers) get rung from the use of wads, not a proper filler like dacron.

You might want to read this "sticky" for the correct information;

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=109280

Larry Gibson

anyone using h4831 with 123 gr fmj in there 7.62x54r

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daverson

anyone using h4831 with 123 gr fmj in there 7.62x54r

---

Not enough bullet weight for such a slow powder as H4831. A heavier bullet gives more resistance to help build pressure which that slow powder needs to burn correctly. Now if you were using a much heavier bullet that powder is fine. Include a case crimp with it as that helps it initially to burn better at start up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larry Gibson

Starting loads for both powders;

4895; 28 gr

4831; 36 gr

Use a 1/2 - 3/4 gr dacron filler with both. If you get to 85% loading desnity with the 4831 (probably won't before accuracy goes south) drop the dacron filler. work up in 1 gr increments with both. Accuracy/velocity test with minimum of 5 shot groups but 7 - 10 shot groups is much, much better for reliable assurance the load is consistent. When you find the accuracy load then teak at +/- with 1/2 gr. Do final group testing with 10 shot groups at 100 yards.

Larry Gibson

---

Take the above as near Holy writ, I stopped with the filler with 4895 around 31 ish grains and still maintained the accuracy I was looking for with heavy boolits has checked and pcd, that 28-30ish window has been a sweet spot for several of the old Russian war horses I've played with over the years.
A very very deep and through cleaning of the bore and bolt face is something else I'd strongly recommend.
As well as slugging the barrel of each specimen I've found from .311 ish up to .314 and good luck getting Accuracy with a 312 boolit from a 314 bore.
My current favorite is a Chinese 53 that had the worst wood I'd ever seen but a almost pristine bore. It shot alright but when I removed some wood from the barrel channel she became a sweet heart, her favorite is the lee 185 gcd and powder coated with about 30 grains h4895 sized to .312.

In CBA Military Rifle matches I use a Finn SAKO M39. I use 28.5 gr IMR 4895 (milsurp) under either Lyman or NOE 314299 in Norma cases, wlr primers and a 1 to 1 1/2 gr Dacron filler. Velocity runs 1830 fps. Accuracy is excellent. Shooting at 100 yards for score on NRA 600/100 reduced target...Have won AZ state match last 3 years with that load.

Attachment 214050

Nice target.

Just used this thread for info regarding 8mm Mauser and the Lee Karibiner Mould.
I have some H450 that I want to use up and this data looks like it will work, starting at 36 gr. Wasn’t even looking for it, and there it was!
Thank you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naga

Hello. I will be firing some 202gr NOE 316299 boolits out of my M39 Mosin Nagant. I have both H4831 and H4895 powders, which were recommended to me for this application. However, my reloading manuals don't have any data for these powders. Based on my searching of this forum, I have come to the conclusion that 28gr would be a good starting load with the H4895, and 40gr for the H4831. Could someone confirm that these are safe/good starting points for my loads? Also, would the use of Dacron be advised in conjunction with either of these powders? Thanks.

---

Still developing the load for my 91/30 so this is not a final but it may turn out to be a good load anyways if it's repeatable. I shot this 5 shot test load over the weekend using my Accurate 215 gr. FN bullet sized to .314" LARS 2500+ lube and Gator gas checks. No velocity reading yet but next time I'm out in a couple weeks I get the chrono out.

https://i.imgur.com/ltzqUj8.jpg?1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boolseye

Nice target.

Just used this thread for info regarding 8mm Mauser and the Lee Karibiner Mould.
I have some H450 that I want to use up and this data looks like it will work, starting at 36 gr. Wasn’t even looking for it, and there it was!
Thank you.

---

You'll probably want to use a magnum or CCI #34 primer with that H450. Think of it as good metering 4831.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larry Gibson

In CBA Military Rifle matches I use a Finn SAKO M39. I use 28.5 gr IMR 4895 (milsurp) under either Lyman or NOE 314299 in Norma cases, wlr primers and a 1 to 1 1/2 gr Dacron filler. Velocity runs 1830 fps. Accuracy is excellent. Shooting at 100 yards for score on NRA 600/100 reduced target...Have won AZ state match last 3 years with that load.

Attachment 214050

---

Hi!

I’m curious to know if that load have enough pressure to make the action of a svt 40 to work properly?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kegcaissy

Hi!

I’m curious to know if that load have enough pressure to make the action of a svt 40 to work properly?

---

I have no idea since I don't have an SVT40, probably only one way to find out.......?

I do know that 28 - 29 gr 4895 with a Dacron filler under a 311299 will function some M1s in 30-06, in .308W most all M14/M1As and FN/FALs (with the gas system properly adjusted).

Just to report, that Karabiner was hammering bullseyes offhand at 50.
That was with the H450, 35-37 grains + Dacron.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boolseye

Just to report, that Karabiner was hammering bullseyes offhand at 50.
That was with the H450, 35-37 grains + Dacron.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

This is a timely post. I have a lb. of old H450 that smells good- now I know where it'll go. Tikka T3 8x57 mm with boolits!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by res45

Still developing the load for my 91/30 so this is not a final but it may turn out to be a good load anyways if it's repeatable. I shot this 5 shot test load over the weekend using my Accurate 215 gr. FN bullet sized to .314" LARS 2500+ lube and Gator gas checks. No velocity reading yet but next time I'm out in a couple weeks I get the chrono out.

https://i.imgur.com/ltzqUj8.jpg?1

---

Dam - that's handsome cartridge!

I notice a little bid of boolit yaw there. It would be interesting to see if it diminishes or gets worse at longer ranges.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 303Guy

Dam - that's handsome cartridge!

I notice a little bid of boolit yaw there. It would be interesting to see if it diminishes or gets worse at longer ranges.

---

That might have come from the target being mounted on a cardboard box and the wind was blowing at that time as well moving the box a bit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larry Gibson

I have no idea since I don't have an SVT40, probably only one way to find out.......?

I do know that 28 - 29 gr 4895 with a Dacron filler under a 311299 will function some M1s in 30-06, in .308W most all M14/M1As and FN/FALs (with the gas system properly adjusted).

---

Just put my hands on 2 svt rifles. We will know shortly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by res45

Still developing the load for my 91/30 so this is not a final but it may turn out to be a good load anyways if it's repeatable. I shot this 5 shot test load over the weekend using my Accurate 215 gr. FN bullet sized to .314" LARS 2500+ lube and Gator gas checks. No velocity reading yet but next time I'm out in a couple weeks I get the chrono out.

https://i.imgur.com/ltzqUj8.jpg?1

---

I like that boolit! Which bullet number is it? Does it feed smoothly from the magazine?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by historicfirearms

I like that boolit! Which bullet number is it? Does it feed smoothly from the magazine?

---

It feeds with no Issues, I had the mold sized up to .315" so I could size it back down to .314" It's also a long bullet and can bend easy in a lube sizer with too much force cast from a soft alloy so when I cast it from softer alloys and PC I allow it to air cool and run it through the Lee .314" push through sizer. It also want fit in my M44 as the throat is not deep enough, for that I just use the Lee 185 gr. RN.


http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=31-215B-D.png

My favorite Mosin cast boolit load is the 314299 over around 16 grains of 2400 powder.. Fun fun fun to shoot. You can shoot all afternoon without a sore shoulder.

My only issue is that often Mosin chamber necks are quite tight and the bores are not. This means neck turning brass to avoid chambering issues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truckjohn

My only issue is that often Mosin chamber necks are quite tight and the bores are not. This means neck turning brass to avoid chambering issues.

---

I've run in to this with my 91/30.
Bore slugs at .315", I use NOE 316-213RN, his version of the 316299, sized 316. By the time I stuff that fat boolit in, the necks of some brass is too thick to allow chambering.

Turns out, the chambers are spec'd at .338". I have to turn brass to .010 thick. That leaves me.002" clearance for expansion.

For some reason, Winchester brass is a particular offender, being very thick-walled in the neck. PPU and S&B brass can sometimes be run without turning, at least for casual shooting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by res45

Still developing the load for my 91/30 so this is not a final but it may turn out to be a good load anyways if it's repeatable. I shot this 5 shot test load over the weekend using my Accurate 215 gr. FN bullet sized to .314" LARS 2500+ lube and Gator gas checks. No velocity reading yet but next time I'm out in a couple weeks I get the chrono out.

https://i.imgur.com/ltzqUj8.jpg?1

---

Larry does that look familiar? 215B Lots of people really like that one. I think Tom owes me a free mold.

Guys. This was made for the Mosin. Look how the crimp grove in placed and where the gas check is still in the neck. It should still seat into the rifling if you have a fairly decent throat and still have plenty of bullet in the neck. If you have a really good throat then it will seat exactly at the crimp grove like I made it.

My rifle at the time still had reamer marks in the throat. It was shot but not a lot. I did a couple of pound cast and took avg of them to come up with this.

It does not like to be driven hard. I sent it to Larry to have him try to see how fast he could get it to go. It just did not like to go fast . But it does not need to. It was not made to.

tomme boy, It's a great bullet in my old but like new M91/30. I remember when you first posted about the bullet and had Larry do some testing with it and it was just what I was looking for at the ranges I shoot an hunt at around here which amounts to about 100 yds.

It was about a year after that when I got my mold and I had Tom cut mine a little larger in diameter for my particular rifle, I wish it would fit in my M44 as well but it has a much shorter throat so it want chamber but the Lee 185 gr. RN works fine for it. I hope to do more testing this spring as I have a little more room powder wise to work with, I gave my brother a handful to try out in his Vepr in 54r.

In my Finn M39 I got real nice results using 35-36 grains of Winchester 748 over a Lyman 314299 bullet, powder coated and gas checked, sized to .314. Other good results were achieved using 35 grains of IMR4895, and 40 grains of Winchester 760.