Boiling a Wood Stock for Grease/Grime removal?

I found the following video on YouTube concerning boiling a rifle stock in order to get oil and cosmoline out of the wood. This is a new one on me and I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not. I figured I'd get guidance from you guys.

The author of the video runs a restoration and refinishing operation in the Detroit area. The name of the business is Vucan Gun Finishing.
http://vulcangun.com/gun_refinishing.htm

What are your thoughts on this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrP1l...kDXiih9oIEkTQ=

I've read quite a few threads here a Cast Boolits and on the Surplus Rifle Forum about cleaning up military surplus stocks, but don't remember anything about boiling wood.

The process really isn't explained in this video, but the author mentions using some sort of tank and sometimes boils the stocks twice to get all of the gook out.

Thanks guys,
John T.

I've done it - it works. Use detergent in the water. Paint thinners does a great job but makes the wood look totally grey and washed out. Oil or sealer restores the look.

I can't say I'd suggest the method - that kind of submersion creates more problems than it solves... a slow, controlled dry heat is still the best way to weep oil and cosmoline out of a stock.

Bren R.

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Originally Posted by 303Guy

I've done it - it works. Use detergent in the water. Paint thinners does a great job but makes the wood look totally grey and washed out. Oil or sealer restores the look.

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How long do you boil the wood for and what kind of detergent?
Dish soap?

I dont recommend boiling wood stocks as you can warp them severely.
For cosmoline removal wrap the stock in newspaper and place in a Black garbage bag in the sun and let it melt out. Then wipe down with Mineral spirits.

Repeat as needed. Mineral spirits will not harm the wood or soften the fibers like some alkali products will. It can then be oil finished or shellaced , etc.

I use Easy Off! and boiling water.
Spray on the Easy Off!, let sit, then boil for a bit. Let dry after wiping it with a nylon pad and re apply the entire process. Works great.
Let dry, then BLO several times. When the wood is the desired finish, I seal with Tung Oil with dryers.
Makes a great finish. I reapply after a few years if I need to.

I have used whiting and denatured alcohol. Makes a thin paste, smear it on, let dry, steel wool to remove. Pulls oil from the stock very well. Pretty safe to use of done outdoors, not hard on the wood. Raises the grain a bit but not too bad. This is a great way to get the cosmoline out of old military gunstocks.

Do not immerse your stock in water, it will open all the pores, the wood will whisker badly and as it was mentioned will more than likely warp. Easy off or mineral spirits to clean the surface cosmoline. Once removed, get some Whiting (Brownells sells it) Mix it with alcohol and paint it on with a brush, let it dry. It will turn brown as it absorbs the oil. It will take a couple hours to a full day to dry depending on the air temperature and humidity. Repeat until most of the whiting no longer turns brown. Wipe the stock down with household bleach and let it dry for a couple days. The stock will be rather pale at this point. Fill your holes or cracks and steam your dents then lightly sand with garnet paper. Your ready for stain and what ever your favorite finish is. The bottom line is no finish or adhesive (if you have a crack to repair) will take if there is any petroleum present in the wood. The biggest secret is taking your time. It isn't difficult and pretty boring. If you do it right, you will be enchanted with your stock. It may be difficult to believe that over the years I've come across many military stocks during refinishing that would of look good on any trap gun. Good luck.

the "whiteing " is hydraded lime and it works good put in old bath towl and in plastic bag. dont let plastic touch the wood

Dish soap, yes. Warping? Very much a possibility but then again if it's going to warp under boiling it's going to warp, period. It must not warp if it's a gunstock. But if boiling warps it it's kinda ruined! Mine didn't, luckily. About raising the grain, raising whisker and opening the pores - that's what you want. Use a fine sandpaper to rub of those whiskers or fine steel wool. That improves the finish of the stock. In fact, if that process is not done a London Oil Finish cannot be done. Stock finishing requires wiping with a wet cloth then when dry, rubbing of those whiskers then repeating until no more whiskers form. Then a deep lustre can be achieved on the stock.

I would go the solvent route. Lacquer thinners, toluene and MEK or stuff like that takes the oils right out. Use after the warming and bleeding out is done.

Boiling lifts out the dents.

Ammonia solution helps too.

How do (wooden) boat makers bend the wooden planks? They use steam. Same with bowyers making wood bows. I read in an old gunsmithing book about a method to straighten warped stocks that involved soaking them in water. It worked.

Knowing all that, I don't think I'd try boiling a stock to remove grease and grime. You might get lucky, and then you might not. Knowing my luck, I wouldn't. Get lucky, that is.

I figured the "Oven Cleaner" would rear its Ugly Head..
DO NOT USE Oven Cleaner on wood stocks ! Lye Breaks down the fibers of the wood and softens them...It attacks the fiber bonds.
Lye is what is used on wood pulp to break it down for paper...

You Stock is Not a Freakin oven !!!

Whether the stock would warp was what I was most curious about. I'm not sure what the exact process the guy in the video uses, but I was thinking that the stock could warp. Maybe not... I don't know.

On my No.1 Mk. III* Enfield, I used some orange smelling stripper to get the gook off. I then washed the stripper off with a garden hose. I didn't soak the stock, but just washed off the stripper. Afterwards, the stock was pretty dry looking. I hit it with 0000 steel wool and finished up with BLO. It turned out, alright, but I should have taken the dents out.

I know that there is more than one way to skin a cat. It's really great to be able to pick your collective brains.

I dunno about boiling, but I've done quite a few by running them through a dishwasher, set for the hottest water possible, and using hardware-store trisodium phosphate instead or the now-worthless stuff they sell today, (thanks to the EPA and a bunch of Chicken Littles).

Despite the naysayers, this does not warp the stock, nor does it saturate the wood with water. Wood is not a sponge. The stock is dry enough to start refinishing within a few days, unless you live in a steam batch.

Boatbulders steam their wood, and then put in restraint while it dries. Not the same thing at all. Been there, done that.

If boiling warped a stock, it was already such a bad piece of wood that it should not be a gunstock anyway!

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Originally Posted by 303Guy

Dish soap, yes. Warping? Very much a possibility but then again if it's going to warp under boiling it's going to warp, period. It must not warp if it's a gunstock. But if boiling warps it it's kinda ruined! Mine didn't, luckily. About raising the grain, raising whisker and opening the pores - that's what you want. Use a fine sandpaper to rub of those whiskers or fine steel wool. That improves the finish of the stock. In fact, if that process is not done a London Oil Finish cannot be done. Stock finishing requires wiping with a wet cloth then when dry, rubbing of those whiskers then repeating until no more whiskers form. Then a deep lustre can be achieved on the stock.

I would go the solvent route. Lacquer thinners, toluene and MEK or stuff like that takes the oils right out. Use after the warming and bleeding out is done.

Boiling lifts out the dents.

Ammonia solution helps too.

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THIS!!!!

I've boiled a number of original L1A1 Stocks with great results. My biggest issue was raising dents. The wet towel with iron didn't do it, but the boiling did.

The only thing I do different from this post, is that when I de-whisker I wipe with a wet towel and hit it with a hair dryer. It works great, and you don't have to repeat it. Just one, and done.

how about a heat gun

While I'm sure some people have had success with boiling a stock, I'm sure some people have had success with running a chambering reamer in on a drill press, stoning a sear with a Dremel or crowning a barrel with a countersink bit.

There are less harsh ways to remove cosmoline. They've been covered many times:

-bag it, wrapped in something to absorb the liquified mess (paper towel, calcium carbonate, etc) and put it in the sun in warmer climates

-build the trash can/light bulb "EZ Bake Oven" and rack the stock

You wouldn't use a stock as a canoe paddle if there was a canoe paddle available... why would you immerse it completely in boiling water unless you were trading off speed for a good chance at ruining perfectly good furniture?

If it doesn't warp, it's at least going to swell. Inletting, wood-to-metal fit are all out the window.

Ever built a deck, even with kiln dried lumber, then seen gaps between the deck boards a year later? That wood sure FELT dry when you put it down, didn't it?

Anyone remember Browning's Saltwater Stock fiasco? They quick-dried stocks in salt to get them to dry faster and "thought" they'd gotten all the salt back out until Superposeds started rusting like crazy. Haste makes waste.

Wait the week, do it right, give your inner Bubba a few beers to quiet him down while you wait.

Bren R.

You may remove the cartouche if you boil the stock on a milsurp rifle, reducing its value.

John

There is no way I would boil a stock! The old surface grease and grime can be removed with a good cleaning. Mix denatured alcohol and boiled linseed oil 50/50 and scrub a stock with it using 0000 steel wool. That will do the cleaning with no damage to the wood or original oil finish.

Oil or grease that is deep in the wood can be removed via the black bag method described by Mooseman. Some folks have placed the wood in the oven at low temp to get the stuff out.

Boiling a stock...no way!!!

I would suggest a "green scrubby" or Scotchbrite pad instead of steel wool. Steel wool can push a steel fibre into the stock that you don't notice until it rusts later.

At the very least, run a rare earth/neodymium magnet over the stock after wooling.

Steel wool on metal, synthetics for wood.

Bren R.

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Originally Posted by Bren R.

I would suggest a "green scrubby" or Scotchbrite pad instead of steel wool. Steel wool can push a steel fibre into the stock that you don't notice until it rusts later.

At the very least, run a rare earth/neodymium magnet over the stock after wooling.

Steel wool on metal, synthetics for wood.

Bren R.

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That makes a lot of sense. 0000 steel wool seemed to 'shed' quite a bit, leaving steel wool fibers all over. I'm going to add this advice to my data base.
Matter of fact, I'm going to save this page to my documents file. Lots of good info here.
Thanks,
John T

I only did it once, boiling a stock. It's not a quick fix or short-cut to anything. It's the hard way. Boiled linseed oil and natural turpentine cleans up the surface grime just fine.

It's when the stock in question is cracked and blackened by oil born dirt within those crack and needs rebuilding requiring glue and fillers that boiling comes into its own. I'd still rather soak the stock in toluene or MEK or acetone for a few days. My Remington 22 stock was not walnut and therefore not a candidate for boiling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bren R.

I would suggest a "green scrubby" or Scotchbrite pad instead of steel wool. Steel wool can push a steel fibre into the stock that you don't notice until it rusts later.

At the very least, run a rare earth/neodymium magnet over the stock after wooling.

Steel wool on metal, synthetics for wood.

Bren R.

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You ever had a piece of rusty left over steel wool in/on a stock? I have been finishing and refinishing stocks for 50 years and I have not seen or heard of such a thing. I have used steel wood on them all. I think this is just theory read or hear somewhere, not backed up by fact.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bren R.

I would suggest a "green scrubby" or Scotchbrite pad instead of steel wool. Steel wool can push a steel fibre into the stock that you don't notice until it rusts later.

At the very least, run a rare earth/neodymium magnet over the stock after wooling.

Steel wool on metal, synthetics for wood.

Bren R.

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You ever had a piece of rusty left over steel wool in/on a stock?

I have been finishing and refinishing stocks for 50 years and I have not seen or heard of such a thing. I have used steel wood on them all. I think this is just theory read or hear somewhere, not backed up by fact. But if there folks with rusty steel wool in their stocks, I would like to hear from them.

I was wondering the same thing. I was told by a gun-maker about using steel wool. I have used it a few times and never noticed any rust.

I have a horrible old grimy SMLE fore-end under my bed that I wouldn't use as is. I'm thinking of boiling it! It does have some filler pieces in it and I'd be expecting those to come out. This one is heavy which soaked in oil can only make worse and I'm not into heavy guns any more. This one is destined for my pig gun and will be very short so warping is not going to be an issue. It's so ugly right now I don't care if it warps.

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Originally Posted by Char-Gar

You ever had a piece of rusty left over steel wool in/on a stock?

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Never on a stock, but I'd moved away from steel wool by the time I started doing any stock work. Had it happen on an old tube radio. To be fair, that was a thin veneer and probably more easily punctured, but it was enough to keep me from using steel wool on a stock, especially after opening up the pores.

Bren R.

MEK and Toluene. Oh, yeah, great for your liver.

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MEK and Toluene. Oh, yeah, great for your liver.

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Worked with it for years. Apparently no liver damage - not detectable anyway. Brain damage is a possibility. Yup, you don't want to breathe the stuff or get it on your skin as it does get absorbed. Unfortunately I did both as did everyone working there. I once got sprayed in my face and over my head, into my ears too. Try not to let that happen. It hurts just a little and then afterwards one is left intoxicated from the absorption. It's like being on fire. I had a quick look before I went down and lost my vision so I could crawl to the door and feel my way to the water sink where I was able to 'cool' the burning and wash some of it off with hand soap. Loss of vision is only from the involuntary squeezing the eyes shut from the pain. I knew the pain would come quickly so I braced myself on the floor so I wouldn't fall. It came on quickly. Not fun.

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Originally Posted by Bren R.

Never on a stock, but I'd moved away from steel wool by the time I started doing any stock work. Had it happen on an old tube radio. To be fair, that was a thin veneer and probably more easily punctured, but it was enough to keep me from using steel wool on a stock, especially after opening up the pores.

Bren R.

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Ben..Fine steel wool has been used for generations on fine stocks by thousands of stockmakers. It is recommended for that use. If there were problems as you describe, I would think they would have shown up by now. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but in the case of stock work, it is just a theory with no facts to back it up.

I don't mean to "get after you" on this subject, but I do get concerned about posts that purport to be facts with zero experience to back them up. Folks with a similiar lack of experience, read those posts and have no way of evaulating the content. Lots of stuff that is not true, and has never been true, get passed around, repeated over and over again on the Internet boards until until some folks will fight to the last drop of blood to back up something was never anything but a theory.

I never post anything on this board or any other board that is not backed up with personal experience. There are plenty of times, others have different experiences and that is fine, but we move the ball down the field when we share experiences and not theories.

Again, nothing personal in this, just wanting to keep things clear.


Take care and good shooting...Charles

Not having any stock experience other than general cleaning and light sanding it's a benefit to pick peoples brains.
Not having my own technique, it's great to get this kind of information.

Stock boiling, like most things in life, seems to have it's advocates and those that reject it.
Without serious thought and research, I wouldn't drop my stock into boiling water.
On the other hand, knowing that the technique exists and may be applicable is something to log into my data base.

All the advice given on removing Cosmoline is greatly appreciated. I know it's been hashed and rehashed over and over. That wasn't my intent, but seemed to be the natural course of things.

As I become more knowledgeable regarding gunsmithing techniques, I'm finding that there many different ways to accomplish the same outcome. Some are more expedient, less costly, or simpler than others.

Having been a NCO in the Army for most of my adult life, it's hard to admit that I don't know what I'm doing, yet. I am more that willing to ask, though.

I've been working my way backwards through ALL of the threads in this gunsmithing forum, trying to pull relevant information from nearly 6 years worth of posts. Some is relevant, some isn't, but I am learning.

Having 'peer reviewed' information a great benefit.

Thanks,
John T.

I would strongly advice against boiling any stock for many of the reasons listed above. To degrease a stock you can use a few methods. I've started with P14 stocks that were so heavily oil soaked they were JET BLACK, but after using slow gentle heat and a little elbow grease the stocks returned to their normal light brown walnut color.

Most people seem to be all on the same page as far as the use of oven cleaner is concerned. It contains LYE which removes the natural wood fiber glues causing the stock to burn (gray color) or get soft spots in the grain. Simply put, wood and lye are not friends.

Using the oven is my favorite method but it doesn't always work due to stock length. I reside in Yuma, AZ where it reaches 118 in the summer so it's not hard to do a little wood weeping outside just by sitting the piece in the sun. You will only get so much oil out of the wood this way, the next step is usually a series of denatured alcohol scrubbings with superfine steel wool (0000) and denatured alcohol. It's quite simple, you scrub the stock in small patches at a time and wipe the area clean with paper towels. It's quite time consuming, but you can rest assured knowing the wood is not being harmed in the least.

Remember folks, it took many years for our Military stocks to become as oil soaked as they are. If you do it right, you can remove most of the oil in a month or less.

Tom

Well, I'd tend to agree. But for fun and to see exactly what will happen I'll boil mine (it's a piece of scrap as it is). I'm going to cut it down and it's so rough I'll be building it up a a bit in places anyway. I was going to cut it down first but for the sake of the experiment I'll make a trough long enough to boil it in. It's only a shortened fore-end. I'll takes pics of before, during and after and report back.

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Originally Posted by Char-Gar

Again, nothing personal in this, just wanting to keep things clear.

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Nothing personal taken. I appreciate that you worded your response in a non-confrontational way. I use steel wool on metal, and used to use it for removing overspray from car windows. I still have some in the shop, and I use it - just not on wood.

I've been "once bitten" by steel wool, so I'm "twice shy" about it. For me, the green scrubby just gives me a visual cue that there's nothing left on the stock (if you see a green fuzz, pick it off, it doesn't hide like steel wool fibres) and has zero chance of messing anything up. It does the job well, so I use it. I also find it to have a gentler scrubbing action - being that it's closer to the hardness of wood.

My grandfather used steel wool, so I learned to use steel wool... and over time, I looked into other abrasives and I prefer a synthetic pad. I've got more options at my fingertips than he did. And when one works better, I'll use it.

I'm just providing another point of view.

Bren R.

If using steel wool, and you are concerned about embedded/unseen fibers. Use a magnet (harddrive magnets are awesome for this). Then rub it with a tacky cloth. It is specifically made to remove sawdust, embedded sand paper grit and foreign objects from wood prior to finishing.
We used this on 1)Our installed bamboo floors, 2) baby furniture (pine, finished with real Tung Oil) and 3) gun stocks. It works awesome. The sticky wipe is a some sort of cheese cloth with a sticky beewax mixture and can be purchased at any Big Box home improvement shop that has a decent wood finishing department.

I use hard drive magnets (which are rare earth types) for that very purpose.

And tack cloth-ing off the piece before any finish is applied should be a given.

Fold it once, use one side... use the other side... fold it back so what WAS inside is now outside, use both sides... discard. Don't keep them around forever.

Bren R.

When I have to de-grease a stock or grips, I wrap it in cotton soaked in acetone (MEK would work too) or methanol depending on finish, stuff the cavities with that cotton too, then bandage cotton with cotton fabric tape snugly and pack in airtight bag (a few PET and aluminum foil layers). Soaked cotton sucks grease out of wood in a few days.

Thanks for that tip, Tokarev. I was wondering about something like that but didn't know quite how.

If you boil wood or steam it you want to put it in its finished shape before it cools/dries.

For a stock I would put the barreled action back in stock before it cools to prevent warping.

The boiling won't warp the stock but make it soft. If not supported it will bend like rubber. You can take a 1 x 1/2 in oak strip and tie it in a knot after steaming it 10 minutes.

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Originally Posted by wgr

how about a heat gun

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I use a heat gun and wipe off the gunk that liquifies to the surface. Keep doing this until satisfied and if deep doo-doo still shows through use whiting applied with a penetrant such as mineral spirits. On occasions I have used chemical paint stripper, even Easy Off but I like to stay away from harsh stuff if at all possible.