I dont own one but can anybody tell me what makes the price go from the $300 to up over $2000 for a 223/5.56. AR15
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I dont own one but can anybody tell me what makes the price go from the $300 to up over $2000 for a 223/5.56. AR15
It's like Kias to Mercedes, you get nicer Parts the more you pay. I have found that I $500 AR15 will do everything I need an AR-15 to do. But if someone gave me a Les Baer I would be crying tears of joy.
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Its like buying cigars, bread, booze, cars, diamonds, clothes etc.
They all work, but there is often a seen, or unseen quality difference.
Anybody can buy cheap stuff cheap, the challenge is to buy good stuff cheap.
Plain and simple "Supply and demand". you want It you pay for it
You see the same in all spectrums of firearms. A savage axis is $300-ish and an Accuracy International is $5,000 before you even add a scope that can maximize the capabilities of the platform. They are both bolt action rifles.
I get confused easy , they buy one that they say is perfect than start changing out everything on it. I think I will keep the old war rifles at least I understand when somone says dont shoot hunting loads in the garand or the old 30-40 Krag has a smooth bolt , it must be somthing about the yr model! Oh Well we like our hobbies
A lot of it has to do w/ name on the lower receiver alone. There are only so many manufactures of AR parts. But there are quality differences in the other parts of the rifle. W/ an AR money is best spent on a barrel and trigger. You can add a free float handguard to that list if you want to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of it.
The type of people Im seeing around here is just caught up in the fad and buys one then starts decoraoting it like a christmas tree to see how fast they can empty a mag but cant hit a barn door at 50yds. And they got this for their home defence gun, scary
I play around with one that 2 of my younger brothers put together out of left over parts they had and enjoy it . It took a little getting use to the feel of the recoil , and the trigger leaves a lot to be desired , but it will eat up a 1 1/4 bullseye at a hundred yards , with home made ammo .
A member recently posted about working on the trigger assembly to get reasonable results out of a inexpensive trigger group . I may give it a try .
Ive put together 5 PSA AR15s, none of which cost more than $400 including the lower. They all shot the same. My boss couldn't shoot his Daniel Defense any better or faster and I'm not good. Buy what you can afford and be happy.
In my youth , I had a older fellow give me some advice about shooting rifles , work up your best load , fix any problems with your rifle , then shoot it until it shoots good , along the way you will become a better shooter .
If you get to shoot a $3-5000.00 AR you will understand. It's like going from a Stevens 311 double to a best grade Holland & Holland.
Black guns are a good value. A good barrel is cheaper than for any other rifle. Great triggers are also less expensive. All your parts need two Beed good quality but you can over spend on some parts. I have 1400 in a High-power competition AR and it's a tack driver. I have another nice AR with a 1250 dollar scope that is not as accurrate......
They can be really remarkable target guns
I have scrounged hundreds upon hundreds of 223/556 brass near the backstop at my club's one hundred yard range. Are some of these fellas shoot'n expensive ARs for home protection, and need to practice from the 7 yard line?
I own a couple ARs, both are unmodified, both have "DPMS" on the Lower. One was made near my hometown in MN, and the other was made by Remlin in Alabama. Both cost a little over $400 each. Both purchased a few months before #45 was elected. With all negative stuff I heard about Remlin, I would have thought I could tell the difference between the two...I can't. But I can say, I don't need to practice shooting from the 7 yard line with either of them :p
Might be a police department using the range , I've seen some departments qualify at that distance , just saying .
I see that at my range sometimes. There's usually a thin trail of brass leading from the bench to a pile of brass about 15 feet from the target. I always chuckle and figure they got mad at the target and "taught it a lesson" at the end.
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I have a .300 BO and a .223 Ar 15, both are of above average quality, I got them off 2 guys needing money fast during their divorces. I mounted some good scopes on them, and they were 1&1/2 inch guns, both of them consistent with the 5# triggers. I got a good deal on a complete #3 fire control unit, and put in the .300 bo, which started shooting 3/4" and better, for 5 shot groups, and all 5 different loads I had on hand, were shooting under an inch. I went straight back to the guy, and bought another trigger, put it in my .223 AR, and danged if it did not do the same thing. I have since worked up handloads for both rifles, that will shoot 1/2" groups for 5 shots, if let to cool between groups. The .300 has gone on to take 3 good sized deer and I regularly varmint hunt with the .223 and a scope with mildots set up for a .223, and have no trouble killing yotes out to 400 yds, about the limits I want to push a .223 to. You get what you pay for, and a little extra $ may outweigh the $ saved!
I just bought some PSA during their Valentine's sale. (It's still running,but they're near picked clean, by the way.)
Since I'm building a pistol, I figure it will be accurate enough for my needs. I had intended to get a Spgfld Saint, but it was hard to scrape together $900.
Bulldogger
Im a psa guy myself and others in that price range. I guess I look at it like this. I can tell time very accurately on my timex and don't have any need to impress my buddys with a rolex. Ive got 6 ars now put together with psa parts and am happy with them all. Id trust my familys lives to them and what more needs to be said. Yup they were for the most part lacking in the trigger dept but even a psa polished trigger group for under 50 bucks gives you a trigger as good as about any out of the box bolt gun. Heck a 15 dollar reduced power spring set and a 10 dollar over travel grip screw replacement will get you there. Only issues ive ran into is due to me building them by parts and some parts that come standard for a 5.56 aren't optimal in a 9mm or a 300 bo. You might have to fool with buffer springs and weights but to me that's about like finding the perfect alloy to cast for a gun. Even those to guns were flawless from the git go with jacketed bullets. Most of the fooling around was to get cast to run a 100 percent in them. My ars are road hard and put away wet. banged around and scratched and USED. I don't need a 2-3000 dollar safe queen. 3000 dollars!!! I probably don't have a whole lot more then that into the 9 ars I own. Well at least 8 of them because I foolishly paid a grand for a alexander arms 50 beo when I could have used a cheaper lower (that was just as good) and saved some money there too. sorry but I don't need a range rover to get to hunting camp either. My jeep gets me there just fine.
/\ /\ Facts well stated. /\ /\
I like to go visit PSA when visiting the daughter. They have a nice place. I just don't have the AR 'bug". Carried one many years ago in service and didn't like it much. Tried an AK for a while but got tired of it and sold it a few months later (prices had spiked :) ).
IF I ever went that way I'd need at least two :) One for close quarters (SBR or pistol) and one for long range.
I agree with the buy the trigger and barrel , and I have ar platforms of various makes and calibers , most are about the same , you have that much disposable income for buying who has the most expensive ar , pay off your mortgage and cars .
Bragging rights , reminds me of ex father in law with all his high end shotguns and safari double rifles , nice dont get shot much or at all , sit in safe but can be bragged about .
And I suppose it is a matter of need , maybe you need a ar that is built top of the line , can you shoot it that much better , some can some cant , happy enough to buy the parts assemble and tune myself , more satisfaction that way , same as loading instead of buying.
I'd rather have three $500 ARs than one $1500 AR.
Oh wait, I do. They are fun to build!
The $300 AR isn't mil spec. Once you get to mil spec, like Spikes Tactical $1300, I don't think there is a difference. Almost all top brands, are made with Aero Precision parts. A guy on youtube fired a Spikes Tactical 3500 times on full auto, until the upper caught on fire without a stoppage. The day of the $4k AR is over...
psa advertises mil spec stuff. That said who cares. I saw lots in the military they specked out that sure isn't any better because some general decided it was. Id bet any soldier in viet nam would have gladly swapped those first *** milspec guns for a 400 dollar psa built today with a rock and roll switch. Heck for around 80 bucks more you can have a coated bolt that's better then milspec. so what do you get for the 1000 dollars more. Maybe a chrome lined barrel and chamber. Might be a slight advantage to someone shooting 3500 rounds of full auto till an upper caught on fire but my guess is that barrel was absolute trash anyway. I think a severe beating for most of us here is 500 rounds of causal blasting on a Saturday with a mag dump or two sprinkled in. I shoot my ars ALOT. But I sure cant afford to shoot 3500 rounds and wear out a barrel just to say I can do it. your talking 350 bucks just in ball bullets. Add to that the price of powder primers brass and a barrel and possibly even a bolt after that abuse. Well north of 500 bucks. Heck for that I can shoot 500 rounds of reloads have fun and pick up another new gun on the way home. Even in a stuff hit the fan situation id rather have 3 500 dollar ars that I could rob parts off of one to keep the others running then one 1500 dollar gun and no parts. Im not a combat soldier and never again will be in that situation so ill leave all the fantasy of full auto gun battles to the walter middy types. All that said I do own two 1000 dollar level ars. One colt and one stag. both I got on trade deals when I first got into ars. Would I sell them and buy cheaper ones. Nope. but I don't have to. Would I go out and spend over a grand on a new one today. NOT A CHANCE.
none of them are mil-spec. plain and simple. they may meet the specifications, but that doesnt make them mil-spec. personally, mil-spec is just the lowest common denominator of acceptable.
Mine are ME-SPEC.
My take on 'mil spec' is, the parts are non proprietary or they're interchangeable...
I watched a few of those blast on full auto and it is funny how the guy I watched did some things different to get his desired results , kind of like reading the latest and greatest in a gun magazine , who pays the money or gives the parts gets the best press it seems like .
I do not have helicopters or trucks delivering the ammo either it is buy cheap or load with best buys you can find to shoot , and I do not see the advantage to overheat a barrel , and wear parts out or stress them so they fail later, as has been said most of the parts are interchangeable and fit one to the next , spend your money on a good barrel , try some of the other brands , you may be surprised and then you may just have a blasting barrel , have fun time to go shoot.
Mil-spec is not just a word to throw around.
I can only speak for myself, for I was one of those old guys, that just didn't need that AR, all through the Obama scare, prices and all. I had my Mini 14's, had a Saiga in a 223, and just thought that was for the others. But once I picked up that first Ruger 556, and the price was under $600, the bug has bitten, and I was hooked. Next came the PSA site, and from there, the fun began. I enjoy shooting them, I enjoy putting on different parts, different triggers, and any spare parts, to me, are just a plus, for the future. I don't have the high dollar AR, but have shot many, at the range. I don't buy those, as I save that money, for the revolvers, that I am always looking for. The nice thing about an AR of today, is the low priced AR, can be added to, with your different parts, in time, and levels, to become a pretty decent shooter, with each added part, but with most of mine, I only shoot at 100 yds. and I just don't have to add much, to mine, to be very happy, in my results. Put an AR together for under $400, was unheard of 10 years ago.
Mil-Spec as a standard for a serviceable, functional rifle (assuming a trained rifleman gives it proper care): good enough for most infantry, good enough for most of us. As far as I know the standard-issue rifle still meets an accuracy requirement of 3 MOA.
If you never clean your Mil-Spec rifle you'll have stoppages, if you fill it with mud it won't run. That doesn't mean you bought junk, it means you need to take better care of your equipment.
If your rifle has to be indestructible or match-quality or if you have to pimp it out with all the latest gadgets, you'll have to spend more. That doesn't necessarily mean you bought a better rifle.
Black rifles - to me - are utility items, pure and simple. They are butt ugly and I don't like their ergonomics, but I bought one just to have something that chambers the current military caliber, and will work first time, every time, all the time. I have absolutely no interest in "upgrading". My inexpensive, "entry level" choice is tough as nails and will wear me out. When I want to pet something pretty, I will take my Remington 721 out of the rack.
May be ugly but a very versatile platform. I have uppers from .22 to .458
Agreed. My AR-15 M4 wannabe is bare bones. Pencil barrel, slick hand guards, with iron sights, and I keep a 20 rd mag in it. The AR-10 has a 16.5 in barrel, collapsible stock, and an optic to take advantage of the added range. All the mags are loaded with Nosler partitions for the AR-10.
Thanks for everyones replys about the Black Rifle! Tech and quility have came a long way in the last fews yrs and from reading everyones replys I now see that with the right knowledge of parts and howto this can be a very accurate and nice rifle without hundreds or thousands of dollars of investment. The Timex and Rolex anology makes sense, what does it really take to make a good shooter, do you want go shoot your rifle or talk about it? Again Thanks Divedigger
Cheaper ARs normally don't have chrome lined barrels is one aspect, also quality of the barrel, fit and finish, quality of the internals and care during assembly are others. The receivers can be made out of different alloys of aluminum, some are "better" than others.
Between 3 ARs I've owned I don't recall ever having a malfunction much less a problem. 2 bushmasters and a cheap dpms. The dpms wasn't chrome lined but the bushmasters were, both old bushys.
I'm not big on the tricked out ones, but those old A2 rifles are fine weapons, accurate and reliable. The balance is right and that long gas system runs better in my opinion. Kinda like the difference between a 5" 1911 and a compact.