What distance do you folks sight in your center fire lever guns for?
General purpose for defense and critter control. I’m thinking 50 yards?
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What distance do you folks sight in your center fire lever guns for?
General purpose for defense and critter control. I’m thinking 50 yards?
I do 100 yds. and hold lower for close higher for distance.
What cartridge? My 22's and 38 Special leverguns are sighted in at 50 yards. My 45/70 Guide Gun is sighted in at 100 yards. My Savage 99's in 308 are sighted in at 200 yards. One of my 1886 45/70s is sighted in at 600 yards for a local levergun match.
Pistol calibers or .30/30 type?
357 magnum
Dead on at 50 gonna put you low 4-6 inches at 100Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezaverde
Set for 100 only gonna be a couple inches high at 50 and still useful out to 125 or so (talkin pistol cartridge trajectories)
ps pick a distance and then shoot it enough you know where it hits at other distances
eg zero at 50 then shoot it at 100 so you know whats happening.
Its been a while since I shot my 16" barreled .38/.357, need to dig it out and use it again.
As I recall I had the .357 sighted for 50 yards and if I shot .38's I had to raise the rear sight one notch to zero it.
.30-30 class rifles 100 yards.
Robert
I prefer a 75 yard zero. With my 358156 magnum loads it is point blank to 100 yards.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezaverde
There's a lot of room in that question for 'it depends'.
I'd sight in for the ranges you expect to be using it for.
Then learn what the particular round does above & below that.
I myself sight in my handguns, which are either SAA types and 1911s at 15 yards. Rifle I sight in at 50 yards. 100 yards is too far to walk to check for adjustments and change targets. ;)
Yes, 1” high at 50 yards.
Rifle type dosnt matter to where I zero. Caliber does have a little bearing. I sight in according to how its going to be used and for what. IE if its a single distant plinker I zero at that distance. If it a pest gun around the house and buildings its 25-50 yds. A multi range target rifle its zeros are marked in a book for each range and sights set. A game hunting rifle depends on where Im hunting.
My primary hunting spot offers only 0 - 75 yards for possible shots. Hence, I opt for 50 yards. Other locations demand further considerations. Now with accurately adjustable scopes, I zero at 100, run a trajectory chart for everything out to 500 and then know what adjustments work for various ranged targets. Works shockingly well.
I sighted both my 32 Winchester Special and 35 Remington for 175 yards last year. I deer hunt in a place where a shot at that distance is possible, so I wanted to be ready for worst case scenario. They hit something like 3 or 4 inches high at 100 so it's not really a problem at all. Just aim a bit low for most actual shots and I'm good to go. I got a buck at about 140 late in the season which made me glad I did a lot of shooting well beyond 100 so I knew the trajectory for somewhat longer shots.
I will be working up a load for two carbines this year - .38 Spl and .357. Both were used for CAS and zeroed at 30 yards with light loads, but now they will be used for critter control. Range varies from 50 to 130 yards.
I find it easier to hold under than to hold over (mental thing) so I was planning on using a 100 yard zero. (147-158 gr bullet at 1400 fps) That puts me about:
1" high @ 25
2" high @ 50
2" high @ 75
3" low a@125
8" low at 150.
The ranges you will typically engage at, and the critters you are dealing with matter. Using a ballistic trajectory calculator will answer the question for your needs. It can be difficult to find the BC of cast bullets. I use .25 as a guesstimate for the more common bullets if I cannot find the actual number.
After reading Larry's post I ran the number for a 75 yard zero and came up with:
.25" high at 25
.75" high at 50
2" low at 100
6" low at 125
11" low at 150
Larry's suggestion is about ideal for most .357 work. It has made me reconsider. My desire to use the .38/.357 for coyotes out to 150 yards is likely a poor choice.
I adjust for a 75 Yard zero for general work. I like that to be on the second notch of my sight elevator; I can go down for 25 Yard work, or up for 100+ yard work. Sometimes you just take what you can get though unless you've got a box of sights.
WHAT? We're supposed to sight in? :grin:
50 yards for pistol caliber carbines, 100-125 yards for 30.30, (bullet weight & use); or 200 for 30-06 or magnums.
Agreed. Out here on my property you will not get a 100 yd shot at anything. 50 is much more realistic but I would do as Larry suggested and go for 75 if possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger Ed.
This is just what works for me.
All handguns: 15 yards
.22 rifle: 40 yards
AR carbine: 60 yards
.357 carbine & .45-70: 60 yards
.30-30: 100 yards
AR rifle: 100 yards
.223 bolt action: 125 yards
.308 bolt action: 125 yards
6.5 Creedmoor & .257 Roberts bolt actions: 150 yards
I sight in at both 50 and 100 yards. First I sight in (cast rifle loads) to shoot 1.5" high at 50 yards. I do this because it's just easier to sight in at this closer distance. Then I move out to 100 yards and refine the sight in so that I'm hitting the bullseye at 100. Once I'm spot on at 100 yards I use a ballistics calculator to give me the bullet drop at 50 yard intervals out to 300 yards, and write this information on the sticker that I put on the ammo boxes for that caliber.
22lr I just sight in at 50 yards and hold over for the longer shots.
with ya on the walkinQuote:
Originally Posted by veeman
I do most of it close in
new setup / never seen the gun before couple shots at 10 -15 yards - then back and sight it in at 25 - maybe closer - 17 yrds is good for something with a cowboy gun trajectory
once its dialed in up close take a few at 50 then at 100
I am a 75-yarder.
goe
I like to sight mine in 1.75 inches high at 50, 2 inches high at 100, dead on at 150 and 7 inches low at 200. That is with my main load of a 158 gr with Lil' Gun at 2050 fps.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezaverde
38 specials get sighted in 1 inch high at 50, dead on at 75 and 3 inches low at 100. That is a 125-RF at 1300 fps.
If you aren't lobbing it at least 1 inch at the midrange you are really crippling your range. For example with the 38 load above you could sight in at 50 yards and be 6 inches low at 100, or lob it 1 inch high at 50 yards and you are only 3" low at 100.
EDIT: checked numbers and I am 2.6" high at 100, not 2".
I would say maybe with your load, but definitely not with a full power type of load. You can shoot a 158 at 1400 with about 8 grains of fast powder like Power Pistol. Use 16-18 grains of slow powder like Lil' Gun and its a different animal. You wouldn't load up a 30-06 with 20 grains of fast powder with the case half full and think that was all you could get, so treat the 357 the same way. You gotta have a powder that gives you a case full and close to max pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by dverna
My main load will put 10 shots into 3 inches at 150 and it still has 800+ foot pounds. With a hollow point that will blow a yote better than any 223 or 22 Hornet at 150 yards because it has twice the power of the Hornet and equal power to the 223 55 gr SP at 150 yards. A hard cast wouldn't impress a yote too much, but my Ranch Dog HP (162 gr) completely acts like a varmint bullet in the rifle. The biggest chunk that remains is the base driving band of lead inside the gas check. About 35 grains. The other 125 grains turns into violent shrapnel and the main chunk penetrates only 3 jugs, aka 12" gel or identical to varmint bullets. This bullet will put a groundhog into about 3 different big pieces.
Generally, I target 100 yards. I am in NH and can't shoot much beyond that, anyway.
Great post!!Quote:
Originally Posted by mnewcomb59
I like one load for everything but you got me thinking. I have two rifles and one can be the Yote rifle with Yote loads. I can still go with lighter loads for more comfortable plinking with the pistols and the other rifle.
And by golly I have 3 pounds of Lil'Gun that I have no other use for (left over from after I sold the .22 Hornet). I have the MP .358-429 that will cast a large HP of 162 gr and the MP 359-640 that casts a 158gr HP. Both are PB but I have a BP GC maker.
Which MP mold would you suggest? Also, what alloy are you using for the "varmint bullet effect"? I assume the same bullet with a 20:1 alloy would be a good deer bullet?
Thanks.
I was unable to get deer-type of penetration out of the HP at rifle speeds. Even the cup point wanted to come apart. We are talking speds of 1800-2000 fps at the muzzle.
The varmint HP was actually an alloy that should have great weight retention (1.5-1.5-97) but the impact speed and hollow point depth and thin walls made this particular bullet start to fragment at anything above 1200 fps. I tried 1-1-98 up through 2-2-96 and pretty pure lead for 38 special speeds and I was never able to get satisfactory weight retention except for the 1100 fps or less loads. Everything from pure to 2-2-96 held up perfectly up to that speed, and every alloy after that speed had various degrees of fragmentation. The cup point let me get up to about 1400 fps with 100% weight retention.
For deer type penetration the solid bullet (180 gr) with 1.5-1.5-97 did good. I was able to get 4 jugs and a 70 cal mushroom, and the 2-2-96 made it a 66 cal mushroom that went to 5 jugs. The solid weighs around 180 and with a top load of Lil' Gun it goes about 1800 fps at the muzzle. The HPs weigh less so they got a higher, but not max load of Lil' Gun for about 1950 fps. I didn't wanna go all the way to the top of the 158 load data because the HP seats just as deep as the 180 solid.
My main problem with the Ranch Dog is the huge front driving band. At .358 it won't chamber in any of my revolvers. My ideal bullet would be the same exact Ranch Dog except half of the front driving band would be a bore rider at .348 and the other half would be .358. Another consideration would be a slightly longer nose. My Rossi and my Blackhawk and Security Six will all take an OAL of 1.64". If you find a longer nose 175-180 solid it will make a great 160-165 gr HP and be able to be loaded with 158 gr data. If you have a deep seated 180 with .300 nose length you probably want to reduce the loads for your HP because it seats so deep.
The 158s and Lil' Gun are the peak of the performance curve in the rifle. They scoot out at 2050 fps and if you check at any range down range from 100-200 yards they will have more power than any other bullet and powder combo. The 125s have less drop but less energy and more wind drift. The 180s have more drop, less energy, and equal wind drift. If you load the max load it only makes 25,800 CUP and your brass will last 6-10 reloads compared to 2400 or H110 (or any other powder that makes 35000 psi) where a single load at max ruins the brass. The max load of Lil' Gun makes less pressure than 13 gr 2400 or 15 gr H110 and the brass has much less bulge than any other magnum load. If you load a less than max load the brass look just like 38 specials as far as bulge near the rim.
The one downside is that your barrel will heat up quicker. It will take you longer to shoot 100 rounds of Lil' Gun than 100 rounds of 38 specials because the barrel will need to cool down. I also prefer other faster magnum powders for revolver loads. But for the rifle there is no comparison. If you shoot any other powder at equal pressure it will be 400 fps slower. If you shoot max loads it will be 200 fps faster than any other magnum powder while also at least 10,000 psi less pressure.
I really want the 360-640 double crimp groove with a gas check but they don't make it. The next best would be https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-...-multi-choice/
38–55 at 100 yard ZERO with Williams FP sights.
1.6” at the highest point between 0 and 100. Anything I shoot ‘center mass’ out to 100 yards ain’t gonna know the difference. This rifle is mostly a hog gun, but have shot coyotes out to 120ish.
For defensive applications, I think in terms of staying inside of a 4" circle.
For the 9mm subsonic stuff I mostly play with, that works pretty well with a 75 yard zero for holding dead on out to about 100 yards.
A .357 will shoot a little bit flatter unless you're really watering it down. I'd have to crunch the numbers, but I imagine a 100 to 125 yard zero would stay near that 4" point blank trajectory to 125 to 150 yards. . .though that 150 may be a bit of a stretch.
I just ran my numbers again. For my 150 yard zero I am 1.75 high at 50 but it is 2.6" high at 100, dead on at 150 and 6.7" low at 200.
For a +/- 2" maximum point blank range zero at 137 yards and you will be 2" low at 160.
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I don't hunt anymore at 82yrs. old/young. So, my sight in distances have been shortened considerably. I think defensively on sight-ins now. My hands shake now so longer distances are pretty much out of the question anyway. So it goes as follows:
.22 lr. + 75feet
.38 spcl, .357 mag., .41 mag., .45 ACP = 20 feet
30-06, 6.5x55mm = 100yards
.43 spanish = 50 yards
12 gauge & all shotguns = 10 yards
This is my general sight in procedure now. james
One of my preferred set ups depending on the drop......on a large black bull, 50 yard impacts above the x and 100 yard below the x and hopefully still in the black.
Front door to driveway gate.
Slim
slim1836:
Now that's funny. :guntootsmiley: