2 vs 3 vs 4 cavity mold? Accuracy is my goal.

I have very little experience in casting rifle bullets. Actually, only the Lyman design #311041 years back. Now I'm looking for a new adventure using a different .30 caliber mold. My #311041 was from long ago on a group buy here on the board and made by LEE, a 6 cavity mold. I realize I could use it instead of buying a new mold, but where's the fun in that? :) I want a pointy boolet (something new to play with).

Reasoning tells me a 2 cavity mold would be less likely to have much variance between casts. I'm aware that alloy hardness, twist rate, velocity, lube, etc. all play a part in the making of a great load. A 1.5" group at a 100 yards would be more than sufficient for my intent, having fun and maybe some hog busting.

Thoughts and input anyone?


Murphy

You are correct!

I think which bullet you try is way more important than how many cavities. I don't have hardly any experience with rifle bullets but a ton with pistol and design is by far the most important aspect with accuracy. Now to figure out which to buy cause I really have no idea. I would research as many places as I could.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Murphy

Thoughts and input anyone?
Murphy

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A "thought and input" or two, or three :) I might offer is my having and using up-to-10 cavity moulds (.38 S&W Special) forty-fifty years ago... NOW, I enjoy using only one and two-cavity moulds... The more cavities = more weight! Added, I have gotten into the "habit" of using two moulds in one casting session, alternating them which provides great timing. Lastly -- I truly believe the quality of bullets cast using one or , two-cavity moulds overall is as efficient as using multi-cavity moulds. As a note, I "devised" using a stack of free-laminate-flooring sample pieces under my bottom-pour pots to enable sliding the multi-cavity moulds, too. NOT necessary with the one- and/or two-cavity moulds. Also, as stated, I use bottom pour pots; I would imagine (???) the weight issue might even be more pronounced with ladle-pourers?
geo

I exclusively use 2 cavity Lyman molds, with a few single cavities having been converted to HP. You didn't specify what caliber you are going to be loading these boolits into - since you've already been down the 311041 road (which was designed exclusively for the 30WCF (30-30Win)) Perhaps the next mold you should consider is the 311291. It is the other one that normally comes to mind when picturing the 30-30 and cast boolits. I'm just getting into Rifle cast reloading/shooting as well, but my limited experience indicates that both the 311291 and 31141 are proven designs that just plain work.

Murph, for handgun bullets I have 2, 4 and 6 cavity molds. Honestly, I like the 4 and 6 cavity best. For rifle, the most I have is two cavity and I ladle pour them. I require greater accuracy out of my rifles than handguns. With all my double cavity rifle molds the weight between the two cavities is almost always less than 1/2 a grain, if not identical, when everything is up to temp. That's close enough for me. Maybe I've been fortunate with the molds. It stands to reason that occasionally one will get out that doesn't throw bullets that close.

As far as a 30 cal. mold, I am clueless as I don't have anything 30 cal. I have molds all around it but no 30.

Serious rifle cast boolit match shooters use single cavity nose pour molds, a gentleman named Eagan was known for his single cavity brass molds.
I have a couple of his 22 caliber and one 30 caliber cherries.
I made one 30 caliber mold and sold it to a member here but I have not gotten to make the 22 caliber ones yet.

Back in the 40's and 50's, single cavity molds were preferred due to dimensional differences in mold cavities from multi cavity molds. I understand that the BPCR crowd still largely follow this practice. However, modern mold manufacturers using CNC machining can make multi-cavity molds with cavities as near as to identical as it is possible to measure. If you are ordering an Accurate, NOE, MP or other 21st century builder, I doubt you'll see a difference.

What I have done, with older, 2 cavity, Lyman Molds, is separate the boolits from each cavity and size, lube and seat gas checks on each pile individually. I haven't rigorously tested, but my impression is that there may be a minuscule difference in group size with really accurate rifles. But for my use, it's not worth the effort.

Those big bore black powder long range shooters who are shooting for prizes , money , blood and bragging rights ... swear by a single cavity mould .
I find it easier to get perfectly cast consistent boolits by pressure casting with a Lyman Ladle and favor 2 and 3 cavity moulds ... but I'm not a serious competitor shooting for prize money or glory .

Take your 6 cavity mould and check it out ... cast some boolits and see how consistent they are . Pressure cast with pot and ladle ... you might find casting the first two ( or three) cavities will give you consistent boolits . You have the mould , try different casting techniques and see what cavities are consistent . Just because a mould has 6 cavities ... you don't have to use all 6 of them if you are looking for accuracy .
Gary

All my rifle moulds are Accurate AL 2 hole. Not just weight but good pours. Don't have trouble with dimensions but alloy/mould/sprue plate temp is easier to control. I still use rnfp, <2 moa @ 200 from my AR10 carbine. The Lee 155 does got good reports for a Lee mould.

I would say single or mark your cavities and segregate bullets by hole and then go by weight , use what you have or order the single nose pour as it in theory is the one going to have the least base defects .

Some of my larger rifles have only single cavity , others I have had custom molds cut with 2-3 cavities , bullets that are off weight can be used for shorter range or plinking .

You can’t go wrong starting with a two cavity mold.

Murphy,

For absolute accuracy with my rifle bullets cast for Schuetzen I use a single cavity mould and keep the bullets that emerge in the order cast, shooting them in that order. The idea is to eliminate as many variables as possible.

For pistol and revolver bullets, my level of accuracy both for the arm and for the nut on the butt (me) is nowhere near as high, so I prefer to gain some speed using 2-4 cavity moulds as available. I find at my age there is a limit to how much fun I can stand casting with multi-cavity iron moulds, so I am gravitating toward 2 or 3 cavity moulds. This is me and my experience. YMMV!

Froggie

Murphy-- I am fortunate to have one of those 6 cav Lee clones of the Lyman 311041 that I bought from a board member here and I m happy to report that it casts boolits that are very uniform cavity to cavity. I and a buddy use that boolit in CBA competition and he gets better groups than I do, often less than 1 inch, yet I cast all the boolits for him!!����

I cast 85-90% for rifle and I agree with Shuz..

I only cast one pointy bullet - the 311299, and it is a tack driver in my Finnish Mosin.
Attachment 292140

There is a reason the old target shooters wanted one hole molds. They also marked them to index in their rifles.
I see very little if any difference in between the bullets from multi cavity molds from NOE, Accurate and MiHec.

I don't think the number of cavities is as important as the quality of machining and the machinist. There is no reason that with today's modern machinery that identical multiple cavities can not be cut.
I don't think in a quality mold that the number of cavities is the limiting factor. Besides you could buy a multiple cavity mold and cast in one cavity and determine if it makes a difference versus multi-cavity casts.

I use 1cav or 2cav molds. Just prefer it that way.
It's what My Dad prefered, and that was back in the day when You could get any mold number in any number of cavities from Lyman or H&G as long as You were willing to pay for it. And the old Man could afford it.

If you are looking for 1.5" at 100 yards you are likely working with a .308 or .30/06...right? (might be helpful to share the cartridge you are working with) Look at the .30 XCB threads posted by Larry Gibson and Tim Malcom. IIRC they got very good results and they worked with multicavity molds.

What folks did decades ago may not be gospel today. Technology has made some progress...LOL.

Also, are you looking for plinking loads or hunting loads...velocity matters.

Here is a taste:
https://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php?topic=533.0

As some have stated, the move to CNC cut cavities is a watershed moment. Molds that were cut with cherries (old school) are suspect but the new molds if done diligently are going to not vary enough to amount to a hill of beans.

That said, a casters MO of how they operate their molds also has a great effect on how the product (castings) turn out. An average person will have greater variability in technique as the cavity count goes up.

More attention to detail and likely a mold guide under a bottom pour lead pot will be required because those multi cavity molds with a load of lead weigh more, Ie you get worn out faster.

As to rifle’s, caliber enters into the equation.

My best cast rifle story begins with a .338-06. If it had been even larger bore it would have been even better. As the bore gets smaller, the margin for casting error gets smaller.

Three44s

dverna,

It will a .308. I have a Stevens Model 200 from back when they were going cheap. I picked it up new and topped it off with a Nikon 3X9 as a back up gun for deer season. I'm not as mad at deer as I once was. I found a decent jacketed load for it and haven't had a need for it for over a decade now, it just takes up space in the vault.

The .30 XCB is exactly what I'm looking at. I read a lot of threads (Larry Gibson, and others) and have decided that was the most likely candidate for my intentions. I most likely won't be pushing for velocity, just a good, fun shooting round that is accurate. Now and then, feral hogs in our area begin to get out of hand and I figure it would excellent for that.

Murphy

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Originally Posted by Murphy

dverna,

It will a .308. I have a Stevens Model 200 from back when they were going cheap. I picked it up new and topped it off with a Nikon 3X9 as a back up gun for deer season. I'm not as mad at deer as I once was. I found a decent jacketed load for it and haven't had a need for it for over a decade now, it just takes up space in the vault.

The .30 XCB is exactly what I'm looking at. I read a lot of threads (Larry Gibson, and others) and have decided that was the most likely candidate for my intentions. I most likely won't be pushing for velocity, just a good, fun shooting round that is accurate. Now and then, feral hogs in our area begin to get out of hand and I figure it would excellent for that.

Murphy

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If I was going down that road, I would do be traveling with you. That bullet has done well for a lot of folks.

BTW, one reason I linked that thread by Larry is it has a lot of wisdom in it. You will see a lot of accuracy claims, but Larry made an important statement...2 MOA is pretty damn effective for most practical applications for a cast bullet. To me, it seems a realistic level of performance that does not take someone down the frustrating rabbit hole of 1 MOA too many folks talk about but is seldom achieved...save for a few lucky groups.

Good luck and keep us updated!

Murph - if your intention is to bust things with a .308: https://noebulletmolds.com/site/prod...10-178-rf-ao5/

Mr. Ranch Dog cooked up the TL groove shank and nose profile using the SAMMI bluepring for a .308 chamber. It's a no brainer to load for and the displacement on impact is notable.

As to cavity count. . .you COULD argue that fewer cavities cuts down on the possibility for variance, BUT it's really only a valid argument if you stick to a single cavity. A two-holer with variance with throw 50% of it's bullets, good, bad, or just different. A four-holer with one bad cavity would still be a 75-percenter.

With an CNC-milled NOE or Accurate, coupled with care given on the sprue cut, you're not going to be seeing enough of a difference to lose sleep over - if indeed you see it at all. I follow Joseph Stalin's advice at that point - "Quantity has a Quality all it's own". :mrgreen:

Bigslug,

Thanks for the suggestion. That's a nice looking bullet, but I'm old school and never gave tumble lubing a try. I'm just interested in a nice looking spire point bullet. Thanks again though.

Murphy

I looked at the xcb and decided against it, IIRC it is a target type vs hunting. Also played with BLL (2 coats) vs PC on GC 145gr in the BO, pushed to 2k fps. Works fine. SP can slump on firing so I use rnfp (31-165) in my 308 AR pushed to 2400. I had several good 4x rifle moulds, wasn't dimensions that varied but the base fill out from filling one end to the other. Haven't had a chance to get a hog with it yet. Results @ 200 yds, I know I pulled the upper right one:
Attachment 292257

If a mold doesn't come in 5 or more cavities, i am not interested.

Create a chart with 1-2-3-4
Place the dropped bullets on the chart from which cavity they came from
Weigh the dropped bullets by cavity to determine each cavity Weight Bell Curve
You’ll see different Bells for each cavity
Reload bullets for each cavity if within each cavity 0.5gr difference. Put the extreme weights back in the pot

Ive had good luck in several calibers with a 2 cavity mould @ 100 & 200 yards

One other candidate is the Saeco 175 gr. You can go $$$ https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010294932 or less. https://noebulletmolds.com/site/prod...311-179-fn-i5/

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Originally Posted by rintinglen

Back in the 40's and 50's, single cavity molds were preferred due to dimensional differences in mold cavities from multi cavity molds. I understand that the BPCR crowd still largely follow this practice. However, modern mold manufacturers using CNC machining can make multi-cavity molds with cavities as near as to identical as it is possible to measure.

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To me, rintinglen makes a hugely important point. The old long range shooters swore by single cavity iron molds because they were cut with cherries back then. When you got a multi cavity iron mold, the cavities could and did have small but significant variances due to cherry wear.

The CNC machined molds today don't have this issue.