32 H&R Mag Help

I have a beautiful 102gr soft cast hollow point boolit but I'm having a hard time finding good data to launch this thing.

Today I used 2.2gr of Tightgroup which is the max load in my Lyman cast book. The first round felt like a squib, it wasn't, just no recoil or power. The shells had soot around them from not sealing the chamber.

I'm using a S&W titanium J-frame, not an old H&R revolver. All I'm looking for is similar power as my 100gr XTP's which I can load much hotter using Hornady data.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Why can't you load your cast bullets with the same powder as your XTP's? Try the Alliant data, max 4.4gr Unique.

Wise Yoda's of the Castboolit forum always said use cast data for cast and jacket data for jackets. I'm not sure if that's always true. I'm using 100% pure lead with a powder coat. It should go down the tube with ease.

I don't have any Unique on hand, but thanks for the suggestion.

i have no problem referencing jacketed data for use with cast bullets. I realize that the pressures will likely result in poor accuracy and/or leading so I consider them absolute max and just work up a load where my accuracy and velocities are where I want them. I rarely end up with loads at top end, but know where i need to stop if I do.

With a pure lead bullet, you are probably going to need to stay close to the lyman data.

I have seen max cast data to be low compared to jacketed data. I feel that max cast data is sometimes limited by accuracy/leading due to softer bullets and is not pressure related.

But, by all means, do what YOU feel comfortable with.

Brad

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Super Sneaky Steve

Wise Yoda's of the Castboolit forum always said use cast data for cast and jacket data for jackets. I'm not sure if that's always true. I'm using 100% pure lead with a powder coat. It should go down the tube with ease.

I don't have any Unique on hand, but thanks for the suggestion.

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I've been on this forum since 2017, and I've never once heard anyone say to use cast data. The only cast data anyone ever uses is rifle bullets, and that's only because they list reduced loads. You will be fine with pure lead. The cartridge is rather low pressure, no feeding problems in a revolver, and I'm guessing accuracy will not be a huge deal in a J frame.

I use a pure lead HP in my 38 +P load and it works fantastic. Good accuracy too. This expansion was from a 2" barrel using Power Pistol.
https://i.imgur.com/SBUkYWE.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UTPT1zH.jpg

My XTP 32 load uses AA#5 and is pretty snappy. Feels like a 38 +P in my 642 which is a few oz heavier.

I'll start working a load with that powder or some Bullseye since I have an 8 pound jug of it.

The reason to use cast data in handguns is that having less resistance cast can often be shot with higher powder loads than jacketed. Measure the bearing surfaces of the bullets. If they are similar use the jacketed start loads and work up. Find anther comparison if the bearing surface is very different.

I missed something somewhere. I didn't see anybody recommend the OP use jacketed bullet data. The closest was a recommendation for using the same powder as the OP used for his jacketed loads. For 40+ years I've used cast bullet data for cast bullets (including PCed) and jacketed bullet for jacketed bullets, but I didn't know no better... :oops:

Please excuse the use of the term "jacketed"...

Use jacketed bullet data for cast bullets, that is what I am saying. Seating depth is the most important thing. Worrying about bearing surface, or hardness, or anything else is pointless. You are 100% ok to use the same powder charge as your XTP load, just do your normal work up.

The Lyman data in the 4th edition is grossly under loaded for boolits they don't make. They cover rival bullets, but load them so lightly that their own products look faster and better.

SAAMI Specs the 32 H&R at a MAP of 21000. The Load you list--for the SAECO 100 gr bullet--their MAX is only 14,600 cup. None of the loads listed for that bullet exceed 17,000 CUP. SPEER lists their 100 grain JHP with a start load of 3.1 grains of Bullseye. Track down a copy of the RCBS Cast Bullet #1 manual. They list something like 17 powders, and all of them are much more potent than the Lyman offerings. They don't list Titegroup, it wasn't manufactured yet, but were I you, I'd look at 3.1 grains. Hodgdon lists 2.8 grains as their start loads for 15,000 CUP, while a peak load of Titegroup is 3.3 grains for 19,900.

Very good advise. With my 90gr Lee boolits I use 3.2gr of Bullseye and it feels like a good middle of the road load for practice. I'll start at 3.1 and work up to 3.5 which I believe is the max for the Speer 100gr boolit. I'm using 5.5gr of #7 with my 100gr XTP and it's pretty snappy in my titanium J frame. I'll do some chrono and jug testing once I find something that feels good and shoots reasonable groups.

I use the .32 S&W Long in a 1966 Colt Police Positive. Larry Gibson pressure tested loads for me and I use 3 grains of Bullseye with a 116-grain cast #3118 flatnosed for 880 fps from a 4-inch revolver having min cylinder gap of 0.003" pass and, 0.004" hold. The same charge with the Hornady 85-grain XTP gives 900 fps. VERY satisfactory field loads.

Cases were R-P 32 S&WLs loaded on Hornady dies. Primers were Winchester WSPs for all charges. A mid range charge was selected for each powder and was also tested using CCI 500 primers. The 311008s were seated to an OAL of 1.257 and a slight roll crimp was applied just under the front drive band.

Here is the test data for each powder fired from Larry's Contender pistol:

Alliant Bullseye Powder
Increment…..Vel……SD….......ES……psi(M43)….SD………ES
2.3 gr……….863 fps…7 fps…..20 fps….14,900……600…......1,800
2.5 gr……….908 fps…14 fps..36 fps….15,900…...1,500……4,400
2.5 gr……….902 fps…10 fps…35 fps….15,300……500……..1,800…..CCI 500 primers
2.8 gr……….977 fps…..7 fps…22 fps….17,800……400…….1,200
3.0 gr………1028 fps..12 fps…43 fps….20,300……700…….1,900

For general use in high volume for use in all postwar .32 Longs I load 2.5 grains of Bullseye with the 98-grain RCBS 32-98SWC for 855 fps from my 4-inch barrel Colt Police Positive and have also standardized on that load for my light alloy frame 3-inch Colt Cobra in .32 Colt NP.

Any of these would be safe start loads in the .32 H&R Mag as they did not appreciably exceed 20,000 psi in .32 S&W Long.

Don't forget HP-38/Win231...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Super Sneaky Steve

I have a beautiful 102gr soft cast hollow point boolit but I'm having a hard time finding good data to launch this thing.

Today I used 2.2gr of Tightgroup which is the max load in my Lyman cast book. The first round felt like a squib, it wasn't, just no recoil or power. The shells had soot around them from not sealing the chamber.

I'm using a S&W titanium J-frame, not an old H&R revolver. All I'm looking for is similar power as my 100gr XTP's which I can load much hotter using Hornady data.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

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My .32 H&R revolver is also an S&W. 4" barrel stainless J frame. I have tried some of the loads for modern revolvers written by Brian Pearce in Handloader.

https://www.handloadermagazine.com/3...gnum-pet-loads

In a decently strong gun this little cartridge has, as he says, "Impressive Performance".

Jim

Well, I've been reloading cast bullets since 1970 and have always found cast bullet data very easily and it has always been different than jacketed data. Maybe not enough to ruin a gun, but to recommend jacketed data for cast bullet use is just (in my estimation) irresponsible. Another reason I have used my "Rule #1" since I started looking a reloading forums, 2006;m I pay no attention to any load data I see on any forum, "pet loads" website, hear from any range rat, gun counter clerk, good intended friend, or gun shop guru. I get 95% of my load data from published reloading manuals with occasionally some data from powder/bullet manufacturers websites. I have had one squib, no kabooms, as good as possible performance in my handloads. Works for me reloading 14 different calibers for perhaps 22 guns...

mdi, I find your method of determining safe loads to be sound. Especially when dealing with unfamiliar components. I have used data from trusted friends whose loads I have personally seen used, and I also use loads from magazine articles if they make sense based on prior experience.

I did get myself into a “danger zone” three times from using loads based on faulty memory. Once I loaded a cast bullet bench rest round for a heavy single shot rifle, but the strength of the gun saved me from damage. A second time I just had a brain fart and used too much powder in a 327 FM, but fortunately I fired those rounds in my Ruger Blackhawk, so it swallowed them without issue. The other overload came as a result of a conversation with a very experienced reloader whose name everyone on this board would recognize (but I won’t give, so as to protect the innocent. ;) In this case I used a fairly stout 32 H&R charge of W231 in a batch of 32 S&W L brass. The resulting charges were “brisk” but even in my I frame snub they did no real damage.

All in all, it may have been a case of the Lord watching over fools and drunks, but my overloads have not been so egregious as to damage gun or shooter. I’ve learned to stay in familiar territory as much as possible and to double check new loads or ones I haven’t used recently. As I have gotten older I’ve noticed that my memory, which was never great, has gone downhill with age. :(

Froggie

https://www.handloadermagazine.com/3...gnum-pet-loads

Good bit of lead data in this article. Hopefully it's something you can use.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mdi

to recommend jacketed data for cast bullet use is just (in my estimation) irresponsible.

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According to Speer 14th ed, p.833 for 32H&R, 100 gr jacketed data can be used for their RCBS 32-98 SWC. I've done so with no problems at all.

Attachment 300701

Attachment 300702

I'm going to try that H110 load. Thanks Blue!

I have a 4.2" SP-101 in 327, but in recent years I have exclusively tried to load just at or just above 32 H&R. Have fun with that gun but take care of it. There are not near enough of those out there.

You seem kind all over the map with powder selection.

I ran a Quickload (QL) table with something close in case it might help you with powder selection.

Note the QL length for the 311359 is 0.720 putting 0.400" of the bullet in the case for the loads below.

I also cut the list (very long) down to some more common powders.

Here is my read (for what it is worth) on the results. The AA 7 is best for velocity of all powders in QL, but AA 9 was close with a better case fill. AA 5, Unique and Bullseye are not much less than AA 9 for speed and the powders are probably fast enough to not worry about case fill. The H110 load is compressed more than I like for a ball powder and pressure looks too low for good burn. Titegroup is not so great, but would work for bulk loading of a more mid rage load.

For me, Unique (at or just under 32 H&R pressure) and Heavy Pistol (same powder as AA 9, loads at up to say 15% over the H&R) are my current go to choices for my gun.

Again this post is more for comparing powders than for use as load data (which QL does not provide).

Also note the QL barrel length is breech to muzzle, but usually I swag in a smaller number for revolvers to help compensate for cylinder gap losses.

If you want more QL runs, exact bullet length, desired AOL, desired calculated pressure are helpfull.

Code:

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Cartridge          : .32 H&R Magnum
Bullet            : .308, 115, LYM LSp GC 311359
Useable Case Capaci: 7.658 grain H2O = 0.497 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.345 inch = 34.16 mm
Barrel Length      : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 20559 psi, or 141 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge  Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %    Grains    Gramm  fps    %      psi    psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Accurate No.7                      75.0      5.7    0.37    1000    75.6    20559    4536  0.660  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.9                      82.7      6.2    0.40    981    68.3    20559    4308  0.660  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.5                      56.0      4.1    0.26    963    89.3    20559    3908  0.667  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant UNIQUE                      74.1      3.4    0.22    958    99.1    20559    3616  0.680  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H110                      105.0      8.0    0.52    949    53.4    18272    4382  0.691
Alliant BULLSEYE                    62.7      2.9    0.19    943    99.4    20559    3408  0.670  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon TiteGroup                  45.5      2.6    0.17    861  100.0    20559    2345  0.700  ! Near Maximum !

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by 375RUGER

https://www.handloadermagazine.com/3...gnum-pet-loads

Good bit of lead data in this article. Hopefully it's something you can use.

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I just read this. I have a new to me 6 1/2” Ruger Single Six (all steel) with a Bisley grip frame. I have an Arsenal mold that is a copy of the 98gr RCBS mold. I’m in the process right now of loading up a box with 3.0gr of Redot. Should be right around 1000fps. Thanks for sharing the article.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Super Sneaky Steve

I have a beautiful 102gr soft cast hollow point boolit but I'm having a hard time finding good data to launch this thing.

Today I used 2.2gr of Tightgroup which is the max load in my Lyman cast book. The first round felt like a squib, it wasn't, just no recoil or power. The shells had soot around them from not sealing the chamber.

I'm using a S&W titanium J-frame, not an old H&R revolver. All I'm looking for is similar power as my 100gr XTP's which I can load much hotter using Hornady data.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

---

I use a 105 gr 313631 cast of 30-1, GC'd and HP'd with a 1/8" Forster HP tool to the nose depth for my max true magnum level loads. I shoot them in a Ruger Single Six (original run) with 6 1/2" barrel. I, like numerous others, consider 28,000 psi to be top end for the Ruger. I have pressure tested (Contender barrel with Oehler M43 PBL) these loads not guestimated them.

Starline cases with WSP primers

5.0 gr of Unique runs 27,200 psi
8.5 gr 2400 runs 27,000 psi
10.5 gr H110 runs 27,300 psi6.3 gr Blue dot runs 27,500 fps
Out of the 6 1/2" barrel of the SS they run 1220 - 1275 fps.

However, my most often used load [probably 99% of the time] is the Lee 90 gr SWC over 3.2 gr of Bullseye. It runs 16,500 psi and 1020 fps out of the Ruger SS.

Federal 95 gr LSWC factory runs at 18,200 psi and 1024 fps out of the Ruger SS.