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I picked this up this weekend. Thoughts on lead extraction? My best idea yet is to buy a sawzall (reciprocating saw) from harbor freight with several blades and cut into chunks and burn in a big pot over a fire/furnace. Will try and cut as much fiberglass off as possible.
Also, isn't this type of BB lead/shot mostly pure lead?
Dang it I can't get the pic to attach. The site keeps failing. Anyway its a 6ft keel wrapped in fiber glass and has a 3/8" piece of steel running through the middle of it.
Have heard that keels are a little better than race car weights in terms of being closer to pure lead.
I don’t think you’ll burn off the fiberglass, but of course it will float.
I’m sur that a sawzall will work, but I bet a hair saw would be better.
What is a hair saw??
Apparently the fiber glass is quite flammable. I'd rather not burn it so if the lead just melts out thats even better.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimB..
I've also got a circular saw with a 16" blade. It's the giant makita one.
It is what apple products apparently call a chain saw. I don’t know why, it’s just what it iThing decided I meant,Quote:
Originally Posted by BallisticExpansion
IF the picture is too large it won't attach. I've had good luck with http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...es-using-IMGUR
That steel bar is troublesome.
A chainsaw would be quickest.
I've got an old clawfoot tub and figured If I ever got a large chunk of lead I'd put the tub on blocks use a tractor to load the lead and build a fire under it.
I would probably try to score the fiberglass and try to chisel it off of the lead. Maybe set up a circular saw at the depth of the fiberglass and make several passes and get the fiberglass off, then whatever you can do to cut the lead into smaller chunks that would be easier to handle.
I've cut lead with a Skil saw using a coarse blade. It was 2-1/2" thick blocks of range scrap. I have an old propane tank that I cut in half then took the top, flipped it over and welded legs on it. I took the valve out, threaded in a street ell then into an 10" nipple. fill the pot up with range scrap, put a Goodwill pot under the pipe, build a fire and walk away. Two hours later I have a 50-60 lb. chunk of lead. I typically don't stir the pot or stay near it while it is cooking. I take what ever drains out the bottom and scrap the rest.
I take the Skil saw and cut those slabs into smaller chunks that I can melt/flux/skim then pour into muffin sized ingots that fit into my casting pot.
When cutting the big chunks down, I'll set them on wood slats inside a large cardboard box set on it side then cut them with the saw blowing the chips into the box. I wear a heavy long sleeved shirt and safety glasses. Those chips coming off the saw can be sharp! You would be surprised at the number of boolits that are in that saw kerf.
And fiberglass is burnable, takes a little to get it going but it burns nasty black smoke, don't want to think of the chemicals coming out of the resins.
I did not get any kickback when I cut mine, that was a concern before I tried it. I was afraid I was going to get either kickback or binding, I had neither.
Might out to check and see that it isn't zinc infused.....
Is it raw shot or shot with epoxy mixed in?
A chainsaw will cut through the fiberglass and lead, but will dull in short order due to the fiberglass.
Wear a mask, the fiberglass dust ain't good for ya.
And gloves too. It'll cut ya if it gets a chance.
Another way to separate it is chop the fiberglass with a ax. Then get under it with a decent size pry bar and peel it away.
I like that idea. The lead separates easy enough with a chisel and hammer it should work. I'm going to lay it on a tarp to catch the scrap.Quote:
Originally Posted by cat-mechanic
How do I tell? It just looks like lead bbs glues together with epoxy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom W.
Get a bit of muriatic acid and pour a little on to the lead. If it has zinc it will bubble.
You may have to do some cutting and digging to get some exposed if it's encased in epoxy.
I did a fiberglass coated keel. Used a hatchet to get the fiberglass shell off. Then hung the keel and used a propane torch. Water filled buckets caught the liquid lead.. the area under the buckets was covered with a canvas tarp.
This keel was only 190 pounds
I've cut a few sailboats and salvaged some keels. A sawzall works on fiberglass buts beats you death and wears out blades. My favorite tools for cutting fiberglass are a 4" angled grinder and skil saw with the diamond blades.They look like this:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-4...102P/305506537
These blades have a small kerf so less dust. They cut fiberglass easily.
The keel sounds like lead shot encased in resin. The resin is probably brittle. You should be able to break it into chunks with a hammer and chisel. The resin is flammable. LOTS of black smoke!
Good luck.
Wonder if a hammer drill with a chisel but set to only hammer would peel off the fiberglass.
I haven’t seen the picture, but I bet that a draw knife would strip off the fiberglass in short order. Bet I have one around here that I could lend, just shoot me a pm with your address if you want to try. Also have a woodworker’s hatchet, it’s ground flat on one side, that might be worth a try.
Most of the lead keels I've heard about were cast solid lead. Are you saying that you can actually see that yours is shot embedded in resin? Like F_L said, that could be a very smokey melt out.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z0wwih5zgy...73202.jpg?dl=0
See pic of keel. Yes it is shot I can see. In the top left you will see some pieces already removed. The lead chips off fairly easily once exposed and attacked.
Yep. I had the same blade for cutting a stone mantle for my fireplace a few months ago, might be able to dig it out without buying a new one. I'm going to get a lead dust respirator at HD this weekend. When I smelt the lead I'll build a hardwood fire surrounded by cinder blocks and rest my pot on edges of block. Dump lead in and walk away for a half hour or however long it takes to melt.Quote:
Originally Posted by F_L
I could do that. I have an excavator and skid steer to move it/hang it with. You used a normal handheld propane torch? How much propane did you use??!Quote:
Originally Posted by pete501
Problem with an unattended fire is lead gets toxic when you overheat it.
Can you use a chisel and remove most of the fiberglass?
I'd go at the rebar with some crowbars and get it out, a torch would help with any stubborn spots.
I couldn’t get lead shot locally at one time because of Fountain Powerboats in Washington, NC [high speed cigar boats] kept buying it up as soon as the gunshop got any in. They used it in their keels too.
It wouldn't be unattended, just viewed from afar lol. I have a digital laser thermometer to check temps as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conditor22
Ever see a boat burn? Polyester resin based fiberglass burns like gasoline mixed with dirty oil.
If it's really lead shot as for shotguns, it'll have an unpleasant amount of antimony in it. Also some arsenic.
I'm not too concerned about it. I will powder coat it and water quench and shoot. It will only be used for 9mm 124gr bullets pushing 900FPS mainly. I'm going to experiment with high velocity with gas check and see what happens as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by uscra112
Unpleasant amount of antimony = too hard to obturate. Shot is really hard. It would mix well with some pure lead for a softer alloy more appropriate for 900 FPS loads.
Might reconsider the comment about unpleasant amount of antimony and arsenic. According to Cast Bullets - E H Harrison, at the time of the article (1979) shot had about 6% antimony with a BHN of 13. Other sources gave the hard shot (magnum shot) as 15 BHN and chilled shot as 12 BHN. Chilled shot of course is precipitation hardened so would be softer after melting and air cooling.
I would not be too concerned about the hardness at this point. If you would read about others experiences with recovered shot from trap fields, breaking the oxide coating was the hardest part of smelting this shot. I would not expect a boat builder to buy the magnum shot just to pour into a ballast block, but the cheapest soft lead is going to be more likely. Good luck, this will be an interesting chore ahead of you. Dusty
I cut one up with a chainsaw, set a tarp under to catch all the shavings, as there will be a lot.
Use an axe to bust off the fiberglass. Weed burner torch to welt away swaths of lead on a sheet of steel?
I have salvaged and cut up thousands of pounds of keel ballast lead. Keep in mind every hurricane results in hundreds of thousands of pounds of lead keels. So anyway I almost always pass on envelope keels or keels where the lead is encapsulated in a heavy fiberglass envelope. These are just too much work for me but where there is a will there is a way. I prefer bolt on keels that can be cut loose or unbolted to drop.
Your keel can be stripped of the glass by using an abrasive cut off wheel on a circular saw. Cut 4-6" wide strips then with a wrecking bar peel it off. It never bonds very well to cast lead. But you need to make sure your keel is indeed a cast lead keel. Most envelope keels are made by pouring in all kinds of crud from lead shot, boiler punchings etc and then dump left over polyester shop resin on top to form a big heavy plug. If your keel looks like this walk away. There is no reasonable way to salvage it.
I always cut up lead keels with a chain saw. Short bar and make sure the blade rakers are not filed down for aggressive wood cutting. The saw will buck if you back off the rpms so keep them up and it will work fine. I always put down a plastic tarp since you will end up with lots of pound of chips. I worked in a shipyard in Fla about forty-five years go and was on a crew of four men chainsawing big chunks of lead. Not sure why or how it works but we always poured turps in the cut periodically. It helped lubricate the cut ?
The big keel casting companies run about 1.5-3.0% antimony in large keel pours to reduce shrinkage. I've never ran across commercially made keels with zinc. It's generally good quality stuff
Rick
Thats really good to know Rick. I’ll have alot of scrap sail boat keels in my future so this is great!
Keel is off the truck and onto a tarp
I've decided how to attack it. I'm going to pretty much what grabler said. Cutting strips in the fiber glass with a diamond coated saw blade on my skill saw. I can get behind the fiber glass quite easily now so I should be able to peel off the strips with a crowbar/pry bar. Then a pickax will break off most chunks of lead. A hammer and chisel will work for some of the tighter areas I hope.
PPE: Lead Dust/Mold Respirator, leather gloves, safety glasses.
Thank you for all of the suggestions folks!
For his 9mm you're right - it'll be OK. I'm biased against antimony because I mostly now cast for old guns that prefer softer alloys. And I honestly thought that shot had more antimony in it than it does. :oops:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Bannister