I can do that.
Well, shoot, isn't that the wax's job?
MJ
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The job of the wax varies based on the premise of the lube. Wax itself is one of the principle "lube" ingredients, actually. In most lube formulas, it does double-duty as a lube oil carrier, and the lube oils do double-duty as lubricants and plasticizers of the wax so the wax will have low enough viscosity to do its thing. Sort of a symbiotic thing, and symbiosis is something I like to see in lubes. In soap lube such as we've been messing with lately the wax is mostly just a lubricant, since the Ivory grease is plenty thick enough to work by itself and the soap is the "carrier". The wax is just the icing on the cake, just consider it a really high melt-point lubricating oil.
MJ, consider for a minute what I said about the napthenic base oils in most common, automotive-type lithium greases being the problem with "lithi-bee" in the heat. When the wax breaks down, there simply isn't enough "sauce" in the small amount of lithium stearate to keep the oils from soaking everything down and flooding the bore with gobs of wet, greasy, high-viscosity mess. The paraffin oils seem to be able to go through the gun and not coat everything so badly. That was why I mentioned a mineral oil-based lithium grease. I'm not convinced it's the lithium that's a problem, and lithium stearate has some advantages over sodium stearate when it comes to moisture although in soap lube that really hasn't been the problem I once feared it would.
If you want something to play with, the company that I got the sample of lithium complex brick grease from probably still has some slightly mashed J-sticks they'd turn loose for reasonable price. I think I paid 1/12 of the cost of a dozen-stick case for one, individually shipped. It's around 22-25% lithium complex and two different viscosity grades of really heavy napthenic oils.
Just as a test, I made some sodium grease with approximately the same type oils, but mineral-based, and the difference in feel and residue even on the fingers is night and day. It takes a solvent hand cleaner to remove the oils in the lithium grease, while the paraffinics wipe dry with a rag. I don't think you'll be happy with the way a high-percentage napthenic works out, but you might surprise us all. Ben's Red has a lot of napthenic grease in it, but it also contains about 10% paraffins, too, between the JPW and Dexron III.
Gear
You mentioned cleaning patches. Mine have been coming out with almost nothing on them, seriously. I've even gone back with solvent patches in an effort to produce SOME sort of nasty, oily, carbony mess from my barrels, and practically nothing is coming out even then, and some of the loads I've been shooting are with powder that burns like "wet rags" as Buckshot said once and normally mixes with the other types of lube to form a black, greasy mess in the bore. If we get the film residue characteristics tuned and agree on a final room-temperature viscosity we'll have it made.
If ever there was a lube that left an absolute minimum residue, the soap/mineral oil lube is it. The OLD NRA formula was very close to this in the way it left the bore each shot, which is one reason I think it worked so well.
Gear
just lowering the oils like I did left the barrel the same way.
I intentionally lowered the load knowing it would leave a lube smear at the relaxation point. [it didn't]
imr 4895 was at the point of burning dirty and leaving a little residue in the barrel.
I was watching for any type of smoke during the shooting and even had another shooter watch and nothing.
the only thing I did see was what I thought was a little drop of moisture at the muzzle.
I can't say what it was because as soon as I touched it, it was gone.
Gear,
I won't bother trying to thicken off-the-shelf lithium grease. Instead I'll go directly to making my own lithium greases. The first one I'd like to try is based on a combination of 50% Stihl B&C and 50% USP mineral oil. Do you think those two oils will polymerize? The other lithium grease I'd like to experiment with is simply 100% USP mineral oil and lithium soap.
If I have time this summer, this should make for an interesting comparison. Hopefully I can round up all the waxes I need within the next month. During the course of testing, I'll maintain my wax mixture at the constant proportions of 1 part micro, 2 parts high temp paraffin and 6 parts beeswax.
All I'm really looking at here is a hybrid MML-Felix customized for the SW.
MJ
I don't know if I should even respond to this thread. It seems that so much of it is encoded for just a few knowledgeable members. If you could spare the time to share some of that valuable knowledge with us low lifers we could might be of some help in the experiment.
Is the base that you're referring to an equal mixture of the Dr. Tranny assembly goo, bee's wax and Ivory soap? Tranny goo and Ivory soap mixed at 400* then lower the temp to 250* and ad the bee's wax. If this is the base then I could master this in a short time. I could vary a small sum with various amounts/types of oils and give a report on the results. Otherwise I'm just a bump on the log awaiting the final results!
EW
I keep trying to outline and describe for those following along, the problem is you have to read most of the posts (some of them long, I know) to extract the explanations. Go back a few pages to the post I made with all the pictures of what the "Smurf lube" as I called it then looked like. I outlined detailed descriptions and instructions there.
What I'm calling the SL-61 BETA version is a basic blend of Ivory, Assemblee Goo brand transmission assembly gel (the brand does matter) and hard, yellow beeswax in equal proportions BY WEIGHT BEFORE COOKING. The Ivory should be fresh and soft from the wrapper, not dried out.
A good mix that will get you the same thing some of us are already testing is either one BIG (4.2 ounce) bar Ivory, 4.2 ounces AG, 4.2 ounces beeswax, or one SMALL bar Ivory (3.1 ounce), and like weights of wax and AG. Using this method, the exact water content and weight of the Ivory doesn't matter, just use the bar size and weights I just listed for the other components and you'll have exactly the same proportions to test.
It takes 460F minimum to melt the soap. Beeswax can be added at any grease temperature 350F and below. 300F is about ideal in my opinion for adding the wax, the grease is still a fairly supple jelly/snot/goo and is easy to blend the wax into, but not so hot as to scorch the wax too badly.
Gear
I have been making small bathes. 1 ounce each of wax, Tranny Goo, and Ivory. I am adding oils in amount like 1/4 teaspoon each, 1 teaspoon max. Small changes in what oil does make a difference. I am currently testing a batch with 1 ounce of the big 3 and 1/4 tea each of castor oil, ATF, and 2 stroke oil. I also added 1/4 tea of polybutene to see how it behaves. This goes on easily by hand, until I settle in for extensive testing I am not putting it in a sizer.
The cooking process is quite easy, Gear had an earlier post with photos and all. Takes 15 to 20 minutes for me.
Don't splash any on you while stirring, that stuff is HOT. I pour onto a foil pan, it comes off easily once cool. I just store in a ziplock Baggie.
Ian,
(Please reference my post #1946)
Ya know, now I'm thinking the less expensive Stihl B&C (Woodcutter label) might be more appropriate:
("COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS" on page 2)
http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/C...hain%20Oil.pdf
Thanks for looking,
MJ
You don't need MY approval, Don, give it a go!
In response to your question about whether the two oils will "polymerize" or not, I don't know what exactly you're asking. I don't believe the oils will change in structure much due to being heated together. Did you mean "homogenize"?
Gear
Ahhh! The "R" of C.O.R.E.!!
This has answered a question for me why Joe's lube handled -4° F below when by formulation I thought it would fail at 15°F or so....
The black nasty you talk of is exponential as the mercury drops as well by the way... While I had two formulations group at double digit minus temps they fouled up badly by twenty rounds!
So Gear, very little of the actual applied to boolit 'lube' is used up then with your new formulation... I ask where does it go then?
Have you done jettison/purging tests? Does it leave the boolit liquid, semi-solid or solid? Brad reported 'boogers' on target... Have you assured it is purging early and completely?
I heading to the big city for a few days.... (Billings, MT) I should be able to find the 'Assembly Goo' there.
The cold is basically gone unfortunately. I did spread a group of just ONE cold start shot at a time over about a week with the 92 .25-20.... I had a 5 shot group that was 1" at 70 yards.. This single digit temps for the most part.
It is sort of convenient for me to put gun and ammo in my chest freezer; as I shoot just 50 feet away. I plan to cook up your formula Gear and then shoot a one shot per day group over a week or so and see how Gear Goo does! I guess this is minus -8°F by proxy sort of...
We need to remember I tested seven formulations this winter and only eliminated one above zero... and that at 9°F! The others made the minus sign before accuracy left. Fouling got thicker and thicker as mentioned but no lead even at -14°F. The freezer test will tell us more that a 25°F ambient test I'm thinking... of which most good lubes will pass anyway.
Eutectic
Call ahead to an autoparts store and get them to order it in for you, I doubt anyone stocks it on their shelves.
The "where the heck does it go?" question has been asked quite a bit, even by Joe. It doesn't end up in the gas system of autoloaders, even at very high velocity, so it just all go out the muzzle. It doesn't smoke, so it isn't burning. I did some jettison tests in rifle AND pistol and found that SL-61 just goes into a clean liquid mist. SL Beta, without any additional oils, did leave some clean dots on the paper at two feet with mild .45 Colt loads (7.8 Unique/255 gr) but shoots better in the rifles (cured the low first-shot flyer in very limited testing by me).
I'm a little afraid that the cold weather will make the boogers happen and ruin accuracy. Remember, Joe's lube doesn't have much if any beeswax in it and jettisons better in cooler weather than some of the tough, waxy lubes that get tougher and more rubbery in the cold.
Did you read the post I made a couple pages back on my general jettison testing and my interpretations? Give it a read and let me know what you think about my interpretations.
I'm working on a sideline of paraffin-based SL-62 to see if it holds up to rifle rigors while being weak enough to jettison from pistol boolits. The beeswax tends to make the lube too cohesive by itself if no extra softening oils are added.
Gear
I put the torch on some lubed boolits yesterday while I was melting the pot to make some more 22 boolits.
the lube went to a wet flow and a thin liquid and then almost nothing.
exactly the same thing that happened to ivory soap bars when I put the torch to them.
the lead [4/6/90 alloy] was breaking down and melting at just about the same temp as the lube went all liquidy flowy.
edubya.
the SL-61.1 I made was slightly different than gears SL-61
it is made with 4 oz's wax and goo a 3. whatever sized bar
1.5 tbs of min oil and 1.5 tsp castor.
follow the cooking instructions gear posted with pics a page or two back.
Thanks. I believe that I have it now. Had to order the Dr. Tranny Goo and have the bee's wax and Ivory soap bar ready. I have a couple of camping cups ready and when the goo gets here I'll be ready.
I plan to use some of those stainless condiment cups and add small amounts of various oils to get several samples going at a time.
I'm kinda slow witted but I'll get there.
EW
Make sure you cook in a pot way bigger than you think is needed.
That soap foams up a bunch.
I'm probably not using the term correctly because I know jack about organic chemistry; nevertheless, I was thinking that the two differently bonded hydrocarbons may react to form somewhat of a hybrid. I used the term because I have seen Felix use it when combining mineral with castor oil and it sounded like given enough heat, time and stirring a new oil was born. Perhaps you can explain the process.
MJ
It's all in the Felix lube sticky. Start at the end and work backwards. There's a lot to learn in that thread anyway.
Gear
Where can I find out how Tac-#1 performs in the heat and the cold, per the testing protocols of this thread...or something coming close to that?
Since I'm mostly hot weather (learned this weekend that 38°F is my lower limit for fun shooting if the wind is above 3 mph), I'm fighting the temptation to just buy some Tac-#1 or some Felix Lube and not wait for the hot weather testing of Smurf Lube variants.
However, it will still be a month or two before I buy...or if anyone wants to borrow my outdoor-ish stove in the separate garage and start mixing...come on down and we'll put you up and feed you some good grub!
Later.
If you won't be shooting below 40 very often you could do worse than SL61. It does throw a first shot flyer from a cold barrel it I bet it will handle heat pretty darn well. Cold seems to be the big issue, below 50 lubes get funky. Heat is easier to deal with.
Here is a photo of the lube star left on my 30-30 after shooting a paraffin based SL61 variant with K2.
This is after 20 rounds with 16 gr of 2400.
Attachment 65475
The lube star is pretty darn dry. This is far more than the 375 shows after 40 rounds with same lube. The muzzle on that rifle shows no lube at all.