The RCBS 124 gr RN is the cats meow if you get lucky and have one that casts .357-.357( have one!). Also, the RCBS 125 gr RN GC boolit is also the bomb and is pure cheating.
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The RCBS 124 gr RN is the cats meow if you get lucky and have one that casts .357-.357( have one!). Also, the RCBS 125 gr RN GC boolit is also the bomb and is pure cheating.
The great thing about the Lee 356-120-TC is that they drop at the perfect size for 9mm, a bit over .357. I just pan lube and load up. Every problem I've had with boolits in 9mm has come from the "correct" .356 diameter. Just a few days ago I loaded some old factory Speer 124 grain lead round nose with 3.3 grains IMR 700X for practice. Out of both my Ruger SR9C and Kel Tec PF9 it was keyhole city, both guns were caked with fouling afterward. Both of them shoot better than I can hold and produce little fouling with .357 boolits. The rest of those crappy slugs got turned into more 356-120-TC last night!
I work at a gun store, and I have had the chance to look over G2,G3,G4 glock booklets Where does it say not to shoot lead cast bullets? can someone take a picture and post it?
43 PU
BTW my 21 G4, 35 G4, 34 G4 LOVES lead cast boolits around 12 BHN
My Glock manual says not to use "unjacketed" bullets, it does not actually prohibit lead boolits per se. I'm really enjoying my 19 gen. 4. Last night I put some more Lee 356-120-TC downrange out of the Storm lake barrel. This pistol is definitely more accurate than I can hold. I use the original front sight and the Glock adjustable rear, with the elevation all the way down. I also find that trigger finger placement makes a huge difference in group size. If I use my finger tip and a slow, firm press like its a rifle trigger I am rewarded with small groups that are point of aim. If I put too much finger on the trigger and pull it through the whole way like a double action revolver I print much larger groups to the left. After polishing the internals my trigger feels like a single action with a fair amount of takeup and overtravel, pretty good for a defensive pistol. I may end up getting a generation 2 Glock 19 for a fall/winter CCW.
Has anybody shot any of the Lee Tumble lube boolits through a stock glock 19? How did they perform?
Practice releasing the trigger only far enough to feel the reset, then press again. This gives you a single action feel for all subsequent shots after the first. It should give you better accuracy, as well as let you fire a little more rapidly once you get a feel for it.
Bersa, I have not been very happy with any tumble lube designs in the Glock barrels. I think they just don't have enough un-interrupted bearing surface to resist skidding and gas cutting in these polygonal bores, except at real low pressures. They are better when powder coated, but still not as accurate as their equivalent traditional groove designs, in my experience.
Ferguson,
If you are right handed and your groups are low/left then what is occurring is when you squeeze the trigger the other three fingers on that hand are also squeezing. That tends to pull the pistol down/left for a righty, up/right for a lefty.
I love my gen 2 19s. The only Glock I like better are the gen 2 23s. :)
Cat
In that case, I really recommend powder coating, with the shake-n-bake method, which is essentially the same as tumble lubing except you bake the finished product in a toaster oven, instead of setting them out to dry. You'll get better results, with zero leading, and no extra equipment, except a toaster oven. Powder is cheap and lasts a long time.
I would also like to learn more about the powder coating
Just "Google" the forum!
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...oating-Boolits
I've had good results with TGIC Polyester powders from Powder Buy The Pound, and also from ebay seller dmc2powder. I do not recommend Harbor Freight powders; they are cheaper, but results aren't as good. A half pound of good powder is enough for several thousand bullets at least. I did a writeup on the shakenbake method a while back, I'll dig it up and re-post it here.
Copy and paste of my writeup from a different forum:
Thought I'd share my recent experience here with coating my cast bullets to eliminate bore fouling. This is by no means my own idea; guys in Australia and parts of Europe have been able to buy commercially coated cast bullets for a while now. Here in the US though, it's just now catching on, with a lot of experimenting how to do it best.
I'm dry tumbling my cast bullets in ordinary powder coating powder, and baking them, to get a reasonably even powder coat over the whole bullet. This means no exposed lead, no lead/bore contact, and no leading (or any other metal bore fouling, just powder).
The whole process is pretty easy, about the same effort as tumble lubing, but without the wait time for it to dry. My process, from melting pot to loaded ammo, is as follows:
- cast bullets
- dry tumble in powder
- bake 15 min
- cool 5 min
- repeat tumble & bake
- push-through sizer
- load ammo
The powder I'm using is TGIC Polyester from Powder Buy The Pound. I ordered a bright green, and a iridescent green.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2...s/IMG_2297.jpg
I use a plastic yogurt container to tumble the bullets. With dry tumbling, you can't really get too much, the excess powder just stays in the bottom. I shake the container by hand until the bullets are evenly coated. This is the second coat on these bullets:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2...s/IMG_2298.jpg
Then dump them out in a tray. A bit of metal screen on the bottom keeps the bullets from getting a flat spot in the coating where they touch the tray. Don't touch them, the powder comes right off at this point.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2...s/IMG_2299.jpg
After baking for 15 minutes (the directions say 10 minutes, but my garage is cold and the toaster oven is small)
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2...s/IMG_2305.jpg
Sized and ready to load
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2...s/IMG_2304.jpg
More bullets.
- The .30 cal rifle bullets are working fine at 2000 fps in my 300 Blackout; trying them in my 308 next. The one at the back right was recovered from a subsonic load; it penetrated about 18" of alder log, and only shed a little of the coating on the nose.
- The expanded bullet in front is from the loaded rounds in the center - 9mm 125gr Mihec mold, with modified shallow hollow point pins, 6.0gr WSF for ~1220 fps. This load needed aluminum gas checks to prevent leading with traditional bullet lube, but now the coating is completely intact around the base and bore contact surfaces with no bore fouling at all.
-The 200gr 10mm Mihec bullets on the left show how the hollow points get nicely coated too.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2...s/IMG_2303.jpg
Do you size them before you apply the powder or after?
Bob
Looks like they are sized after the powder. What temp do you set the oven to?
Looks like it but it seems odd to do so.
Bob
Size after; there's no reason to size before, it would just be an extra step that's not helpful. You want some compression of the powdercoating during sizing to form a smooth slick surface.
Different powders require different temps, but most of the stuff I use needs to be baked at 400* for 10 minutes. I bake for 15 minutes, just to make sure I have 10 minutes at temp, longer is fine too. You do need to verify the temp with an oven thermometer since most toaster ovens don't have a very accurate dial (just like a Lee melting pot!).
Yondering, Why does the powder stick to the bullet prior to cooking? Seems like it would only leave a slight dusting.
To be honest, I don't really know, it just works. It may be from impacts between the bullets during tumbling, because tumbling a bunch of bullets works a lot better than just a few at a time. I usually do about 100 at a time in a plastic yogurt or sour cream tub. Some guys put them in their vibratory tumblers, but I just shake them by hand for 20-30 seconds.
I can tell you the powder comes off the bullets very easily before baking though. You don't want to touch them with your fingers, or roll them around the screen.
So much fail in one thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-750685.html
I couldn't help myself. I was researching something and came across it and thought I would give everybody a laugh.
I especially like this part:
Quote:
There are issues specific to Glock barrels (see picture above):- Glock barrels have longer leade (space the bullet jumps from the case neck/chamber to the start of rifling) which increases high pressure gas leakage.
- Glock barrels have very smooth start of rifling with rounded rifling which allow the lead bullet to slide deeper into the barrel before sufficient chamber pressure starts to develop which further increase high pressure gas leakage.
These Glock barrel features allow more high pressure gas leakage around the bullet which results in more of the following:
- High pressure gas leakage around the bullet blows liquefied lube from the bullet and down the barrel which may increase fouling/leading build up, especially near the chamber end of the barrel.
- If high enough powder charge is not used, powder burn may be inefficient and insufficient/inconsistent chamber pressures may not deform the bullet base to allow the bullet to "skid" down the barrel and increase fouling/leading build up.
I don't even argue it anymore. Whenever the issue of lead in Glocks comes up, I just tell everybody that it'll blow their gun up.
The ones that are so sure lead is real bad in Glocks usually just bought a Lone Wolf barrel. Tuff to justify the expense and admit you might have just wasted a small boatload of cash. Human nature tends to be like that.
Take Care
Bob
I will say that I think the 1:16 twist of my Storm Lake barrel is better for boolits than the 1:9.84 of my factory barrel. I definitely get tighter groups with it so that's what I use. When fed a diet of my boolits neither one has a problem with lead buildup.
I saw another one KB Saturday. Don't know what model.......full size Gen 4, 40S&W.
Appeared to fire out of battery. The case was severely bulged all the way around and blown out at the feed ramp.....unlike others I've seen that were bulged only at the feed ramp.
Blew out the magazine which suffered minor damage to the plastic outer sleeve. Extractor was bent, ejector was bent, mag release was gone.
The round was a reload with a JHP bullet. Not enough damage to the gun to be a gross overcharge.
So it looks like the new feed ramp geometry does provide additional support, but the Gen 4's will still fire out of battery.
Jerry
My gen 4 Glock 41 also has bugs. Not very happy with it right now.
Both the Glocks and the M&P's will drop the striker when the barrel is sloightly out of battery. I have tried it on my M&P. With the chamber empty cock the gun then ease the slide back slightly to just unlock the barrel. Pull the trigger and see if the striker will fall.
Take Care
Bob
On my Glocks, the barrel has to be at least halfway locked up to drop the striker. A round has to be fully chambered to allow the barrel to lock up that far. Any round that is slightly oversized, or too long, enough to prevent fully chambering, will also prevent the barrel from locking up in the slide at all, and the gun will not fire.
I'd bet what KYCaster saw was a case of a hot load or a dirty gun unlocking early, rather than firing from an unlocked condition. I've seen evidence of that in 10mm Glocks too.
A really dirty gun is the only way I know of to get the slide to stop back far enough to still fire, but not lock up the barrel completely.
Seems like the .40 caliber Glocks have more problems than the others.
The point being even partially locked up requires the round to be fully chambered; this doesn't happen from oversized ammo that won't fully chamber.
I've seen several examples of brass deformed all the way around the base, so that it would not fully chamber, like the example above. Usually somebody points to that as proof the gun fired out of battery, but it doesn't happen that way. The brass gets that way from unlocking and extracting early, not from starting the firing process in that position.
Partial lockup does cause early unlocking though. It's just important to understand the difference, and why it can happen.
No the underside of the brass at the six o'clock position would not be supported at that point.
Bob
I've see the result of double charges in several guns, including at least three Glocks. That wasn't the cause in this instance. He was loading JHP bullets (I could see that) and he said Unique was the powder. You can't get a double charge of Unique in a 40S&W case.
The definition of "out of battery" has been discussed in other threads and I'm probably using the term incorrectly to describe what happens with these failures.
The ring completely around the base of the case could have been caused by not completely sizing the case, I won't argue that. It really doesn't matter WHAT caused the condition, the fact that the gun will fire in a condition that will not contain the pressure of a normal load is the issue I have with Glock. I have not yet seen Springfield XD or a S&W M&P fail in that manner, so I don't know if they're prone to the problem or not.
Internet rumor says that the Gen4 design changes fixed any problems that Glock continues to deny the existence of, but based on what I saw, that is not true.
It really bothers me that Glock continues to sell guns with such a design flaw, continues to deny the existence of any design flaw and continues to claim the superiority of their design.....all while quietly repairing guns damaged as a result of the flaw that they deny exists.
Believe what you want, that's just the way I see it.
Jerry
Well put Jerry. In my example with my own M&P's I have not nor would I try to partially unlock the barrel and pull the trigger with a loaded round in it. Just to test it ipout though I may just load a case with a primer and go to the range and see if it would ignite a primer in such a condition. I will let you know here. I have seen the result of a M&P coming apart (40Cal at an IPSC match). I think a squib followed by a round did the trick but it did look a lot like a barrel failure where S&W changed the barrel design, beefing up the area just in front of where the barrel locks up.
Take Care
Bob
The main problem I have with the Glock KB **** is this....when you see a picture of a S&W revolver with the top strap missing and only half a cylinder or a Colt 1911 with a mangled mag and splintered grips you never hear wow what a piece of junk. You hear what a careless handloader that guy was. There are so many Glocks in service it is amazing. There are so few M&Ps, XDs, or anything else for that matter that they get no attention. Nearly all things associated with any KB are pure conjecture. Sure Glock made a bad decision with the early 40s, that has been fixed. I own many Glocks and have many friends who do also......none of us has ever had a problem with any caliber handload in any caliber Glock. I could go on and on but.......