Regarding the original post...
I couldn't agree more. I've been hear for years, reading, and asking very few questions... There is a trove of information on this forum.
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Regarding the original post...
I couldn't agree more. I've been hear for years, reading, and asking very few questions... There is a trove of information on this forum.
So we got off topic, and we didn't agree. I don't see that as a reason to call for the mods to zap a thread.
On topic. Yeah I agree I have spent a long LONG time surfing this forum before I ever joined. For years I have checked here for info, and usually got fairly good leads on what trails to follow to get to where I wanted to be.
GoodOlBoy
There is another long winded sticky on here about fillers. The last poster just said he did not want to plow through it to find out if his question had been answered. I thought he came off as somewhat arrogant but he is also demonstrative of the weakness of expecting everyone to dig through huge piles of duff to find an acorn. Expecting a quick answer for a quick question is not uncommon. A serious weakness of this expection is that often responders don't know as much as they think they do.
Well Said!
GoodOlBoy
Recluse, you started a great thread and made your point very well.
I'm new to this site. Just found it this week.
I've been loading nearly 60 years and casting 45+.
I'm still reading the sticky's and learning as I go.
When I started reloading/casting, I was mostly self taught and read everything I could find.
Fortunately there was an old gunsmith in town who was willing to answer my questions and at least keep me safe.
Now, with the internet, there is a lot of knowledge at our finger tips.
With the search feature on this site I've found old posts to answer every question I had.
If a new user asks a question that has been covered, I think steering them to use the search function might be a good idea.
I look forward to tapping the knowledge I see here and learning more about casting.
I too am old, cantankerous with a strong feeling that you can't fix stupid.
With that said I've started a lot of people reloading over the years and I'm willing to share my limited knowledge.
PJ
Hello,
After asking some questions on another site I was directed here to learn. I've lurked around for a week or so searching and been searching and reading.
I'm almost 65 and have been learning reloading & handloading - shooting & hunting since my mid teens. Been in the US Army & Colo National Guard (shot some Bullseye Pistol and some smallbore rifle for the All Guard team and got introduced to some really fine shooters.
At 39 I changed careers (from a mechanic) and became a Correctional Officer (needed to make a living) which eventually worked into the Facility Armorer & Locksmith Lieutenant. Not a much better job in the DOC other than the warden - I worked directly for him. Being an NRA certified & DOC certified handgun, shotgun, and rifle instructor for 17+ years out of my 21yrs service, I agree - you can't fix "STUPID" you can "ONLY" try to keep them out of "DANGER" and not let them "HARM" anyone else or themselves.
I've always been interested in boolit casting but never got involved until recently - I purchased a bunch of old casting equipment - later to find out some was good and some was not so good. This week I hit the local tire shops searching for lead and acquired a couple 5 gal. buckets of WW - I sorted (learned here how) before I paid.
Now I'm on to some sort of economical device to render down the WWs. From searching your site I have located some suggestions but I want to find out more so I will start reading some more stickies. Is there a particular forum/place for us newbee's to begin with in the world of lead processing?
thanks again for the fine suggestions.
Roy
Welcome rcsch, this place is full of info. As far as your question about rendering your whell weights into usable ingots I'm not sure where to direct you to a particular thread, i'm sure there are several. Basically you need a sturdy vessel, a heat source, i use a cast iron pot, a fish fryer, propane fired and a large ladle to fill a muffin pan. Heat until melted, skim off the trash, clips, throw a handfull of sawdust let it turn to carbod stir in well and skim that off after a few minutes. Maybe repeat a time or two, this will flux the impurites out, ladle into your ingot mold. Do this with good ventilation, outside .
I have been reloading, and casting since 1972. I have 9 or 10 reloading manuals plus all of them that the powder companies put out , I have dozens of bullet molds. BUT every once in while I cant find the info I need. so I ask. if anyone will ask me a reloading question I will try to help or guide them in the right direction.
Welcome the forum. Sounds like you'll be quite an asset and positive influence.
smokeywolf
Regarding the original Post. Well Said . I'm 59 and taught myself to reload in the 1970's without any outside help by Reading Books long before the Internet and without anyone to ask questions to. I never had an accident . You really nailed it on some people "not getting it ",mostly the younger GEN. I recently got interested in Trapdoor Rifles and now have two. I will be loading again and will be learning to cast my own bullies to go into my loads. The forums are a great source of info ,but should never be 100 percent relied on .
I fall into the catagory of target shooting once a week mostly with my Historic Mil. Surp. And other old Guns all of witch I know the year of Mfg. And take great pride in owning.
I will probably read and learn more than anything here. Thanks in advance for any info I will learn here. Sorry for the long post., Bruce
Welcome, Bruce. Some of us learn better by reading and figuring it out on our own, so many young folks seem uncapable of learning that way. I blame it on the instant gratification mindset.
Old historic guns do bring a certain amount of pride of ownership as well as the intrigue of shooting a gun that has been there, done that, but is unable to tell it's story.
No, not just you. I've trained more than a few folks in a variety of skills and the teaching method must often match the type learning the trainee is receptive to. Seems I learn everything the hard way (think I heard my dear departed dad chuckle just now ;-) ) so I've learned to address all the possibilities. Work with a former trainee now that seems to have forgotten most of what I told him, if he'd listened and retained what I told him he'd be way ahead of the pack in our field.
Sadly, he keeps asking the same questions that I've covered more than once. I won't answer his questions, quite obviously he can't learn by being told how to do something and lacks the ambition or wherewithal to figure it out. I can't (and won't) help him. I'd be wasting my time and his.
In my years past I trained more than a few cops, some have made me quite proud. I tried hard to pass on what I knew but some folks are better off learning that they're not suited to a particular job. In law enforcement staying with a job you're not suited for can get you killed. In boolit casting it can get you and others seriously hurt.
:smile: Outstanding thread,Sir.Thank you.RE:Do you do house repair/work on your vehicles?Yes to both.From minor to very major.
Still have bunches to learn.Learned a few of the basics from my Grand Father who just loaded for two calibers.45 Colt and 45-70 pre smokeless powder..His two working calibers back in the day.Thanks again for an excellent thread.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo
Maybe new member should have to pass a basic "Cast Boolits" knowledge test to join Boolits? One of the many purposes of the Cast Boolits website is to dispel the old myths and to sort out and get rid of misinformation about bullet casting and shooting that causes problems for the cast bullet community, and to replace the old problematic methodology with the latest and best up-to-date information regarding bullet casting and cast bullet shooting, USING INFORMATION DEVELOPED AND PROVEN BY OUR OWN MEMBERS, which is for the most part not found in published books BUT IS NONE-THE-LESS WELL-KNOWN HERE BY MOST AVID LONG-TIME CAST BOOLITS MEMBERS.
With regard to that information being known but un-published, one of my major complaints is that in helping newbies, I, as well as the Cast Boolits Website generated information I'm trying to impart, way too often gets shoved aside and pooh-poohed by the less well informed participants here at Cast Boolits who insist that the well-proven information DEVELOPED BY CAST BOOLIT MEMBERS is all wrong!
To avoid a "urinating match" that these confrontations often have a tendency to turn into, I usually halt my participation on a thread instead of patiently doing all the research necessary to prove my point so I can quote it and help educate a truly worthy newbie because I just no longer have the time and energy to devote to it. I have my own guns to build, ammonpulver loads to shoot, vacuum rifle dryers to make, and my time to devote to someone who is too lazy (or unskilled?) to use the search function here is limited. I also won't go running off to the nearest moderator to tattle on every thread I participate in that has gone astray because the participants want to disseminate bad or wrong information, LIKE FOR INSTANCE SHOOTING 0.001"OR 0.002" UNDERSIZE CAST BOOLITS IS GREAT AND REALLY DOESN'T CAUSE ANY PROBLEMS AT ALL. THAT IS A SHAME THE GUY GOT AWAY WITH PUTTING THAT OUT AS GOSPEL HERE ON BOOLITS, I didn't have chapter and verse from a published book like he had that said it was okay. Anyone who wants to try that go ahead, it shoots, all right, but you will very like end up spending half a day digging and scrubbing the leading out of your bore.
Too bad there isn't a good way to re-establish putting out good information, but I feel that the purpose of Cast Boolits is getting perverted by too many "entitled" members WHO HAVE NOT READ OUR OLD ORIGINAL RESEARCH DONE BY US ORIGINAL MEMBERS, BUT NONE-THE-LESS THINK THEY KNOW IT ALL AND END UP SPOUTING THE OLD USELESS MYTHS AND MISINFORMATION THIS SITE WAS SPECIFICALLY MEANT TO DISPEL! To keep these Know-It-Alls or the "entitled" out, perhaps new members should have to pass a test that makes sure new members have read our basic necessary information, like how to slug the bore, choose a correctly sized boolit for it, etc. I don't know, but things aren't going right lately with participants who have an "entitled" mentality of "I'm right simply because I am and you are wrong simply because I said so" spouting bad information and getting away with it, and I hate it!
rl1217
Oh, mang. A test to determine fitness for membership? Who writes the test? Who approves the questions and their content? Is it essay a la old-school Blue Books, or multiple choice? Who grades the %$#@ things? This is a can of worms that morphs into cobras once opened. No flippin' way.
Cobras? Yeah, very big ones. Besides, what would you expect a newbie caster to know? That he is a newbie looking for answers is the reason he is here. If he could pass an admission test the odds are he isn't a newbie but rather knows something of the subject.
I agree with Linstrum though about all the years spent by so many to dispel old wives tales and now we have a whole crop of new members once again spreading them like they were gospel. But a test? I don't think so.
Rick
I don't think that teaching things that work in bullet casting really requires faulty physics. It simply requires relating what is really known, with some humility.
Learning bullet casting from someone does not require that someone perfectly understand the physics behind their process, but it does require listening with some humility.
Creating processes that are better than the best that thousands of others have achieved frequently requires a very good understanding of physics, a lot of creativity, persistence, and luck! It can be done, and happens all the time.
Naw, you guys are making a monster out of what lives down in that mole hill. The test has one question:
DID YOU SLUG YOUR BORE?
When they answer "yes" to that one extremely simple question they are granted all rights and privileges. Simple, and that ONE question gets ASKED A LOT and when answered it solves all sorts of problems that didn't need to exist in the first place and wastes everybody's time jumping through hoops trying to solve non-existent problems.
rl 1,218
Oh, OK. WHEW! If I see another Blue Book or bubble sheet in this lifetime, I'll warp out.
Linstrum, that would be a great litmus test. Even better--"Have you slugged your grooves and throat(s)?"
Heh, heh, yep!
But you got to admit it would serve some of them right if they got smacked up the side of the head with a blue book! I have asked the question: "HAVE YOU SLUGGED YOUR BORE?" and gotten back: "How do you do that?" many many times, as have a great many of us who have been here for as long as we have. At least they asked how you do it instead of keeping it quiet that they hadn't, or worse yet, not admitting they didn't know what you were talking about!
But (sigh) I guess we will all continue to administer "The Newbie Test" after the fact, we have made it this far and the world hasn't fallen apart.
rl 1,219
Yeah, I try not to "turn off" new folks with The Third Degree-style questioning. We do have a FAQ section--perhaps a header-board posted there should read "If you don't have a confirmed idea of your firearm's throat and groove diameters, learn this info before proceeding further at this site. It is a foundational element to cast bullet success." Then follow with a definition of what groove diameters and throat diameters actually are, and how to determine them.
I just noticed this protracted thread/sticky and have no intention of going back and reading all the multiple pages, but I will offer my 2 cents on the subject at hand.
Some of the new folks are teachable and some are not teachable. The non-teachable ones come to this board with some fixed concepts and notions and won't turn loose of them no matter what. Many ask questions, but only accept answers in line with what they wanted to hear. They are looking for validation and not correction. The teachable ones learn, prosper and do well here.
I've slugged my bore, read through this whole thread and tons of others, went to the Ruger forum to see the chaos as advised and promise not to ask questions that I should have learned by reading the stickies. I own three books and have read them all several times. I've snuck into this site for a long time before joining. However, I haven't measured my chamber but can plunk test with my eyes closed. Can I come in?
Answer: No, come back after you measured the depth of those tool marks in that barrel. Oh, and get some proper equipment and a work ethic, will ya? Have you ever even cast a boolit?
No. I've made ingots out of my own range scrap and pewter after reading up on it here. I'll cast some boolits soon. I figure I could learn a lot by the ingot making process. Fluxing, temperature of the melt and the ingot molds, safety, proper pot and such.
Not good enough, boy. What causes a wrinkled cast boolit?
Old age??
You out of here! Go back to THR where you belong! :)
Horseman...What you have experienced is all to frequent, even the common on boards like this. Somebody asks a questions and folks jump in riding their favorite hobby horses and trying to display their vast or shallow knowledge on the subject. The result is a mass of information that contains good counsel, bad counsel, and irrelevant counsel and the fellow who asked the question is left to try and sort through the pile of brown stinky stuff trying to find a valid answer to his question. Doing so is most often an impossible task because if the questioner has the knowledge to sort through the mess, he would not have asked the question in the first place.
Anybody load 45 acp? I can't find data for a 230 gr RN boolit anywhere...
Hmm...
Didja slug the barrel yet?
I can offer a set of plans for catching garden slugs
:)
I was just having fun :). I know exactly what you all mean. When I read 9.3 talking about not giving people the third degree, that nonsense I put down just popped into my head.
Sometimes I'm afraid to provide any advise to reloading threads, if the poster does not appear to be paying any attention to the feedback they are getting. I dont want any part of anyone getting all blowed up. Best left to experts anyway. I've only been at the reloading for a few years, but have had great luck so far and having a ball learning everything I can. This place is a treasure. I'm on the backside of 50, so I'm no spring chicken, but I have yet to cast a boolit :).
Char-Gar - That was really insightful, and true.
Regards,
H1
After 50 years of loading,casting and READING a stack of BOOKS and a lot of mags 8 feet hight,I am Still learning OUTSTANDING Post!
I am always happy to help someone willing to learn, and always willing to learn from someone who can help!
That is why I come here. I endeavor to be respectful, kind, and generous to all, the way I would like to be treated.[smilie=s:
I started casting in the early 70's and learned most things the hard way, before the internet. Had to use trial and error, (many errors), ordered books= Lyman, Elmer Keith's, Veral's etc.
This forum and the people here are a wealth of information and experience. Thank you each and every one for letting me participate!
Recluse you forgot the Gun Addict!
Char-Gar, you #263 post is very insightful. Regarding #265, that is the whole concept of "forum". Things are discussed from all points of view, the good, the bad, the ugly; and those with half a brain get the wine, the others the dregs. Ya gotta watch admitting you did not read the whole thread, I got raked over the coals for such admission regarding another War and Peace thread.
prs
Well said Recluse, the classifications are brilliant. But,
I cast my first boolit in about 1959. Since then, I have poured literally tons of Pb. I have enough guns to make Nancy Pelosi very nervous, and handload over two dozen calibers ( and pour bullets for virtually ALL of them) and have thirty plus moulds. However, I am a newbie to CastBoolits only because I am pretty computer illiterate. My first question on the site was a good, legitimate question. I had already done my home work. But not knowing the GPS locations on the site, my first question appeared in the wrong category. It was my first post: I didn't know any better, and I said that it was my first post. I immediatly got criticism for being so stupid.
With all the anti-gun sentiment, we need all the "Newbies" we can get interested in anything to do with firearms. That is in ALL of our interests. So if the post is presumptious, or sounds like the OP thinks he/she is entitled to an answer, then we can deal with that, but at least initially, gently. I am far too old to wear my feelings on my elbows, but I can see that the response I got could easily have turned off a newbie.
This is supposed to fun. We need to keep that in mind.
Farmershooter I agree with you. I've been shooting since I was 12, shot competitive pistol for 10 years and started Reloading 1988. I lurked for quite awhile on every gun site I belong to just to understand the way they operate. I have to say most are the same, if a newbie asks a simple question there are usually a group who treat them poorly.
I'm 62 years old I've always tried to remember how I started out and how nervous I was asking what I thought were dumb questions. Time and age have taught me that there are no dumb or stupid questions. I always mention that in my Pistol Safety classes, the only dumb question is the one you don't ask.
Overall I have found most on this forum to be great at helping. I've only been a member a week or so and have learned a lot. Recluse brings out some excellent points but we must do all we can to bring more newbies into our sport.
Thank you all for all the help so far! I hope to learn more in the future. I retired in 2013 and can now enjoy shooting and reloading more often...
Charlie
Charlie, First thing I have to say is WELCOME HOME SOLDIER!! I'm 4th ID 65-68.
I know you are a new member but after you are here for 5 years and are still answering which is the best mold to start out with, what is the correct size for me to order in my new mold and so on, you will want to post a similar thread.
I've always went out of my way to help new members or even answer questions from older ones but after an extended period of repetitive questions, you come to realize that the person has not read anything that is available to them. I'm a former Firearms Instructor and Armorer for many years and after you work with a student for a few weeks and have handed out many sheets of needed info and they approach you with a basic question, it's upsetting to say the least. How did you feel when you encountered a slacker in your outfit. Did you want to pick his butt up and choke him into reality?
Take Care and enjoy our forum. David
I've shooting recreational, competitively, casting and reloading for 30. I thought I knew a lot, and then I found Castboolits. I can't believe how much I didn't know, but I'm reading and reading and reading.
Thank you
"loading books"....First place I go!
Man I got to get me one of them BIG hats!
What the youngsters of today expect is instant gratification.
When you couple that with a hobby like handloading and casting you've got a dangerous cocktail.
I began loading in 1975 ....... like many other members who have loaded and even cast much longer than that ....... there was no internet ......... Owl Gore had not invented that yet .......... so the only source of info was either written or word of mouth.
I never trusted someone's recollection of load data and when someone could not even remember the right name for their powder ......... I always turned a deaf ear .... so to speak.
So that left reading!
And READ ...... I DID!
Truely, I have no other real hobby other than "loading and unloading" ..... and my "research time" was whole hog on guns and related info.
My FIL used to handload and hunt ........ he's turning 88 in a few days ....... a great fellow and great FIL ........ my wife takes after him a lot and though my MIL is a gem too ...... for my wife to be so much like her dad is just nirvana for me.
But he (FIL) made an observation that I disagree with the other day ....... he was so enamoured with the latest printing of the Lee 2nd edition ..... that he stated bluntly that no one should ever need any more resource than that ........
Well, while I like that manual a lot ...... I would feel naked with just that source ......... I have and keep and collect older manuals and as they start to slide into yesterday ...... I like to snap up newer manuals as their pricing comes down .........
Simply put, I have a lot of hard copy resources and to this day ........ I study them continuously.
When I was still a kid and starting out ........ my mother would accuse me of staring a HOLE through my gun books ....... she would exclaim that by now, I must have all of their contents etched into my brain! I felt that attitude was rather short sighted and silly .......... the TV may have been playing right there ......... but I had BETTER things to do with my "down time"!
So yes, as the OP (who did a wonderful job) frames up the issue of newbies wanting to be spoon fed information ....... and getting ignored or dressed down by more senior members at this and other forums ....... There are two elements to acquiring skills ........ you first have to teach yourself or have it taught to you ......... and then you need to apply it! .......... experience is the best reinforcement to learning. But this instant pop tart culture we are surrounded by today are not about to inquire and chase knowledge and then apply it ........ and it's bringing us to a dangerous place for the 2A.
We can as more experienced folks at this hobby ..... try our darnedest to change our fellow younger shooters and get them back to a better course and mind set but it's a losing battle. We all know that people are pretty much imprinted by age 4 or 5 ......... So ..... How are we gonna fight that?
Though it's imperative to cultivate as much gun ownership in this country to protect our 2A ...... we sure are not in place to instill positive thinking into young children we don't even have access to or know and even if we were there in a case or two, we'll never out influence some else's child. If the parents are not doing the job .......... we don't stand a chance!
I am guessing that the downward trend in gun related tragedies is about to reverse itself as more and more "gun illiterate" folks acquire guns ...... it's good news that gun ownership is on the rise ............ it's bad to terrible news that a good percentage of the folks coming in are illiterate on the subject at hand.
Best regards
Three 44s
I am a newbie here and only been reloading for 20 years. I think i still have knots on my head from my old man not thinking i was taking it serious when he was teaching me. Now im reading posts on here every night trying to figure out what all i need to do to make my own boolits. Very fun and informative forum and more knowledge then my poor head can absorb!! Got some molds got a bunch of ww and pure lead workin on the pot and sizers and everything else i need to cast my very first boolit. Everything so far i have wanted to ask has been explained in more then 1 post and i am enjoying the reading. Thanks to all who post information here for this knucklehead to read enjoy and learn!!!