I've been following this thread since day one. I've seen nothing but good, useful information. I sent a PM to Staff nominating this thread to 'Sticky' status. I think it's certainly worthy of that.
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I've been following this thread since day one. I've seen nothing but good, useful information. I sent a PM to Staff nominating this thread to 'Sticky' status. I think it's certainly worthy of that.
^^Agree 100%
Been quiet for some time now. I had a personal adgenda to be able to fire a 10 to 11bhn in 40 sw using sammi specs and crimp with the coating. Been one heck of a learning curve but it is possible. It functions w/o leading so far in Taurus, Sw, HK and Glock. For those of you wanting to try it it will work. Here is my recipe. Using either gold or black. Mixed 5-5-1. 1.5 teaspoons of mix coated 3 times baked 375 for 10 minutes out of a preheated oven. Overall coating is 4.5 teaspoons on 5 pounds of 180gr round nose around 200 boolits. Now making the bullet harder requires MUCH less coating but this works with accoww. I have a ton of coww and didn't want to re-smelt and add antimony. here is a recovered bullet out of a glock 27. Fully coated after firing. I ran 4 magazines and had nothing but powder fouling in the barrel. Love this HT supercoat. Good luck. Now to the 9mm. Attachment 76053. oops sorry it's upside down. Looks like it hasn't been fired I know.
That must be one of those Aussie bullets.....it's upside down! Lol
The coating is flammable before it dries, basically you are just waiting for the solvent to evaporate, once the solvent evaporates you are good to put them in the oven.
I also want to say, heating times are going to vary from oven to oven. My ovens cure the bullets in 8 minutes or less. I use industrial pizza ovens that blast hot air on the top and bottom of all the bullets. The little ovens work great, but try your own times. I think the test of wiping the bullets with MEK or Denatured alcohol has been covered.
I have been coating alot of gas checked boolits and found out a few things.
Install the gas checks prior to coating. If the boolit is more than .002" oversize run it thru the sizer. I use the RCBS case lube on the pad if I do this.
Even if you do not run the lubed boolit thru the sizer wash them with soap and water. Handling the boolit seems to transfer skin oils to the boolit plus gas checks have oil on them. Dry them and heat them to about 150 degrees in the oven for 5 minutes or so. The reason is if there is any water under the gas check the gas check may pop off the boolit when baked at 375 degrees. I have had this happen even though the boolits were air dried overnight in our 100 degree plus heat.
I have also found that coated boolits that you size down an extreme amount seem to do so without distorting the driving bands. The boolits just get longer.
I am going to do some more range testing soon and also now that my Saeco hardness tester is fixed will test water quenched boolits for hardness after coating.
I just loaded up my test bullets I received and I was very happy. No having to wipe the loaded rds off after loading and no luby fingers. So far so good.
My wife has a convection oven she uses to bake polymer clay, a synthetic crafting clay. She wants to know if baking this stuff leaves any lingering odors in the oven. Janet told me I could use her oven if the coating won't stink up the oven and the smell get on her polymer clay.
Anybody have any feedback on that?
Did y'all notice the thread now has 'Sticky' status? Thanks, Willy!![smilie=w:
This is looking very interesting. It would be nice if the manufacturer/anybody put a "how to do it," aka directions, link/pdf. I have read through the thread, and will do so a couple more times letting this sink in. I like study, and trial and error, and I like directions. Here is a stupid question, what is 5-5-1, I assume it is five parts stuff/coating with 1 or 5 parts catalyst/whatever with 1 or five parts whatever/unkonwn product? It is a "two part" product from what I have seen. I use 45-45-10, and I know what those ingredients are. Also, how toxic is it? Thanks in advance.
It the end, now matter how much arm chair "activity," I eventually pull the trigger and get "... my hands to play with (it) to get full scoop for me." No substitute for action.
<-----beating his chest, grunting, and looking for something to smash.
Jim, I just went and did a sniff test on my converction oven that has only been used for this process. My sniffer aint great but I did detect a kinda burnt hair smell. Probably not what you wanted to hear, but I bet its better than an unhappy wife. Everybody know if momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.
I'd much rather err on the side of caution. If there's any, even remote, chance that the smell from this process is going to linger, I sure don't want that imparted into Janet's polymer clay jewelry. Ladies don't like stinky jewelry.
Thanks, LS, do 'preciate the feed back!
Now, the search for an economical convection oven will commence.
5-5-1 refers to 5 parts poly, 5 parts acetone and one part catalyst. some are thinning to even 6 and 7 parts acetone but they are running harder bullets than I am. I have had no luck thinning with softer bullets. With 45 acp pressures I could probably get away with 2 coats, with higher pressure stuff and soft lead it takes more product. Just FYI. I found the gold much easier to read and dial in heat wise. The black is not as telling. In the very beginning I was over baking. Had I started woth the gold that prbably wouldn't have happened. The gold will tell you really quick if you put too much time or heat on them. They turn more brown instead of gold. Hard to see that as easily on the black.
Once I got my times dialed in with the amount of alloy my oven could handle all is well. I have two small oster convections. They too use forced air heat but can only heat and hold about 5 lbs of alloy to prper temp at a time. In other words I am baking 4-500 boolits at a time with both running. I can do roughly 1000 coated 3 times and sized in little over an hour.
The standard formula is 5 parts color, 5 parts solvent (I use denatured alcohol), 1 part catalyst. Directions are provided with purchase of the coating. Some trial and error is involved since each oven is different. I have the directions in PDF somewhere... but I learned more on the phone talking to end users in Australia. If you have any questions let us know. I have been using the coating for about a year, some of the first bullets were loaded on Donnie's press and tested with my M&P.
i dont smell it either jim, but iam skeeered for ya. Odors may appear, even though we cant smell,, chemistry is strange.
We are a HTS sticky, yay! Thanks.
"its shake and bake mama"
Leadman, one member had sized and gas checked after HTS.
jmortimer: its easy and tons of fun, no smoke, straight shot, clean dies,etc..
Buy the 36$+fedex (1/2) kit donnie sales. Convection toaster oven/mine at kmart.
Watch 1 & 2 below;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU7P...eature=related
A trip to the local wally world produced what I need. I will need to heat the measuring glass and a bend a pour spout into it, but other than that I'm set. I still have my metal mesh frames from prospecting and plenty of mesh and wood to make more drying and baking racks.
The oven was on sale for $34.99 and for $4.00 more I got me a 2 year replacement warranty.
Success!!!
[QUOTE=gunoil;2302421]i dont smell it either jim, but iam skeeered for ya. Odors may appear, even though we cant smell,, chemistry is strange.
You can say chemistry is strange, but I say women have a better sense of smell...
Good on you guys for clarifying some of this. It makes more sense. I like the simplicity. No more questions until I am ready to spool-up. I'll just keep watching and learning. Thanks again.
All of these .. $35 ovens are toaster ovens I'm guessing? What kind of luck are people having using toaster ovens as opposed to convection ovens? BTW Donnie rocks , he's open to just about anything sale wise, 1/2 liter here , some of this , some of that ..
It is counter top convection oven. I should have been more clear on that.
I was thinking "Easy Bake" but glad you clarified that. Looks like you are set for launch.
Black & Decker convection toaster oven at Wally World.
It's not huge, but I can afford it and it'll get me started.
Her are the ones I use. Little bit more expensive but very accurate after first warm up. In other words on both of mine 375 is + or - 5 degrees. Attachment 76089
No FPS as have no chronograph, sorry (for the soup can load)
If you shake until tacky you will get a rough coat, I am shaking until covered and them dumping without going tacky.
The finish is mirror smooth then!
Also, initially I was shaking til very tacky to scoop up the colour from the mixing bowl, this just put nasty scrunge in the lube grooves.
I bake in the wifes oven, the smell goes away :)
That's the one I got Jim.
Mine I use specifically for coating. Beware stainless will turn slightly brown from chemicals baking doing it a bunch. I have coated 8000 or so in my little ones and both have a slight brown tint on the stainless. My wife would beat the brakes off of me if I used hers. She does let me anneal my brass for swaging in hers as It gets cleaned in the process but The brass has to be spotless. My little ovens don't get that hot.
WHEW! Finally done for the day. I got my racks built and cast up 40 pounds of 230 gr RN bullets. Tomorrow will be 358429 day.
G'day.
My stainless oven is now a brown colour around the door and the controls on the right side. The oven does smell of burnt snot. I would not do it in an oven used for food prep.
Make sure your coating mix bottles are PET plastic, or the mix could eat your plastic bottle. This is why I use 600ml coke bottles. The poptop caps on bottled water will screw on to Coke bottles. 10ml syringe with a long blunt needle is great for decanting the components. one syringe for each part keeps the housekeeping up to par.
Always put 2 bullets in the bottles of catalyst and colour resin to ensure they are mixed fully.
If you think the coating looks too good when you first apply the coating, then it is way too thick. Add 50% more acetone.
I have some photos to put up later of todays range shoot. Grouping at 25 yards is fantastic. 38 Super racegun at major power factor 125gr RN at 1350 FPS shot tight group from a sandbag.
I fired red, blue, green, Maroon, black, red/copper in all different loads and all different guns. This coating is bloody fantastic. There is no way in hell I will ever go back to messy lubes.
I even have 4 people today ask me to supply them with coated bullets.
Time to get serious about production.
Photos will be up later tonight. I have to process the RAW files.
i know i feel better, away from handling all those lead bullets and alox. I have 800$ magma star coming next week. It has a heater and blue lube, i want be using ! Waited over 90 days. Dang discover card.
Gunoil-Sell the star and put it towards your Super 1050!!
After loading today and not having to wipe out my dies or wipe off the loaded rds with mineral spirits I am happy. I will be shooting them tomorrow.
I think about all the wiping I did using traditional lube. Wipe the base after it comes out of the sizer, wipe the loaded rds off, clean the dies, waxy residue on my firearms after shooting, smoke, etc. Soon I shall be happier than a fat kid with a cupcake!!
The testing today went great.
All bullets were sized to .356.
All testing done at 25 yards on an IPSC Classic Target (all "A" Zone hits).
Note that the target patches are 1" in dia.
All testing done in a Kimber Stainless Target II in 38 Super.
And an SVI single stack Racegun with 4 port compensator in 38 Supercomp.
I also pumped the remaining rounds through a Para P (something) in 38 Super.
All up, over 200 rounds were fired with Zero leading in any gun.
I love this supercoat.
The New Black: Lee 125gr RNFP .358 sized down to .356
Black with normal catalyst shot well. Barrel clean and reasonably accurate. See pic 1. Average Velocity was 1150 FPS
Attachment 76126
Black with extreme catalyst shot better. Barrel clean and accurate. See pic 2. Average Velocity was 1145 FPS
Attachment 76127
Black with 2-Extreme catalyst shot great. Barrel clean and very accurate. See pic 3 Average Velocity was 1155 FPS
Attachment 76128
The dog dick red shot great and very accurate. Barrel clean. Lee 120gr Con
The red/maroon was the same very good accuracy and clean. See pic 4 Average Velocity was 1147 FPS Lee 120gr Con
Attachment 76129
The blue also shot great and was clean. See pic 5 Average Velocity was 1152 FPS Lee 120gr Con
Attachment 76130
The blue/green was coated on a Lee 125gr Round nose bullet and fired from an SVI racegun at 1350FPS at major power factor.
These grouped bloody fantastic. See pic 6
Attachment 76131
All the loads had 10 shots fired from a rest at the target and another 10 fired off hand to check for smoke.
All loads gave very little smoke. I was going to take photos of the smoke, but it wasn't worth it. Tried a few times, but the smoke would not show up on the photo. All you could see was sky.The only fouling in the barrels was powder fouling.
The 4 port compensator on the Racegun was clean with no lead buildup at all.
There is no way I would cure this coating in an oven used for food also. Don't know what is in the coating but just the acetone alone is a problem. I'll ask Donnie for an MSDS to see what the chemicals and precautions are, something I should have done earlier. I was a certified OSHA hazardous waste worker and was in a safety position with the city I worked for for awhile. Guess I have been retired too long (not) and forgot to ask for the MSDS.
For those looking to get on board with this product check out Goodwill, thrift stores, garage sales, etc. for your oven. I paid $3.99 at Goodwill for my convection oven. I already had a small toaster oven I had used for powder coating. The toaster oven works ok, just have to watch the cook time closer since it will start to darken the boolits under and over the heating elements quicker.
I tested some water quenched from the mold boolits today that had been coated 3 times. They came out the same 18BHN as some of the same batch that had not been coated. Nice to have a hardness tester that reads correctly now.
"I'll ask Donnie for an MSDS to see what the chemicals and precautions are, something I should have done earlier."
Good idea as users will breath and absorb it.
I know there was talk of using this on the .224 - has anyone actually tried it and what were the results? Interested to see how high fps's would go.
Thank, fellas, for the reports on the oven smell. Now we know a dedicated oven is part of the equipment.
love life , (Its real that some molds drop so good that people dont have to size, i like to size)
1)i agree & what sizer are you using? I hate sticky, smelly bullet lube too.
2) Still have to size, (Lee sizers are a pain and slow) but just need a sizer.
3) I like the nose-down with bullet tube feeds for small and large pistol on Magma.
4)Believe me, i have tossed and turned. I thought bought just go to my bank for 1050.
5) I had called M Star and cancelled the lube,heater,air then called back and told em to put back on.
6)I like this: with some changes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJOkb3RxrZE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8NdY15RstE
7) give me some ideas, like just using a used star sizer?
8) We are all in the same boat.
Back to 4 day work week at ft bragg. Iam beat, kinda glad!