No, according to the metals industry the components of a lead alloy cannot gravity separate. Not in large industrial vessels and not in your pot.
Rick
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I agree completely!! A few years a ago I became interested in reloading. Before I bought my first press I already knew the basics and what I wanted for equipment by researching on sights just like this. I didn't have to post much because the answers were right there now I'm here most of you don't know me but thanks to you I'm casting beautiful boolits for my 45 and eventually for some of my other firearms. Thank you all a thousand times!!!!
DAGNABIT!!!!!!!
This quote from Rick should be in a HUGE banner headline, splashed across the top of EVERY PAGE on this site!
"THE COMPONENTS OF A LEAD ALLOY CANNOT GRAVITY-SEPARATE"!
This "gravity-separation" is a MYTH, repeat: a MYTH..... it just doesn't happen.
An alloy is not a "mixture", it's a chemical /atomic creation in which the component elements are bonded together at the molecular level.
No argument at all with Olaf's text. His observations are completely consistent with my own. I have never seen alloy constituents phase-separate for any reason, and didn't think it likely.
Funny that Bruce comes along now in this context......I had questions at the start of my work using Bruce's soft-point casting method, wondering if the "point metal" and drive band section--composed of differing metals--would simply blend during the the "fusing" phase. This has not occurred for me--some combination of gentle handling and differential specific gravities of the point portion (unalloyed lead) and tri-metal alloy (usually 92/6/2) allows the process to work. Note that I ALWAYS have the point portion of the cavity lower than the drive band section, which is natural for most cavities we use in this hobby.
From what wikipedia says white lead oxide melts at 290 C which is 522 F. Above this point lead oxides go through various reactions with themselves and oxygen. The thing to note is they are liquids and float on the lead and because there is not much of the oxides, they spread out in thin layers which can solidify when the lead cools.
As far as alloys never separating by gravity, l don't know. This seems maybe likely if the alloy is a homogenous solution at constant temperature. I have seen fractional rechystalation-dechrystalation used to separate out components of a solid solution. When two phases of a mixture are in contact they often have different percentages of components. It's gonna take alot to convince of that molten metal mixtures are homogenous and cannot settle out.
If that's the case then you should contact the metals industry. No doubt they will be shocked to learn that they have it all wrong.
Rick
I guess I ought to point out that lead oxides DO NOT alloy with lead and that all mixtures of liquid metals ARE NOT alloys. If you wish to define an alloy as a mix of metals that will not separate by gravity when liquid then I agree they won't seperate by gravity. Even non metalic elements can alloy with metals ie: carbon and iron to make steel. All metals do not dissolve in others, think of those wwclips we scoop out of our pots.
And this is why my post count is so low,I spend hours and hours reading on this forum soaking in all the experience of the veteran casters here I usually don't ask unless I just plain can't find the info I'm looking for. Thank you all soo very much!!
I'm normally just a progressive reloader/caster/shooter, but I do experiment with hunting and defensive loads for handguns. I've decided that the 223, with the right ammo, does anything that I need a centerfire longarm for. Pistol ammo, however, is very lacking in improvement, almost no progress having been made in 30 years, and the results are way, way less than what should be the case by now. We know that rifle "type" velocities do wondrous things, even with very lw bullets. So it should be obvious that such bullets and such velocities are the way to go for rapidfire controllable loads in ccw pistols. The Big heavy approach has accomplished very little, other than in huge, heavy revolvers that nobody bothers to ccw (other than under a parka, in Alaska). :-) We've had Mach II handgun loads around for decades, and even the .45 Champion of them all, Jeff Cooper, said that a .22 spritzer, 40 grs at 2200 fps, had adequate stopping power, by means of hydrostatic shock, even after piercing soft body armor.
In the laboratory you subject solutions to Jupiter's gravity by placing them in a centrifuge.
smokeywolf
Recluse,
Thanks,that was a good read.I am very much a new caster myself and you brought up some good points as well.I admit,I jumped right on in and started asking a lot of questions before reading the stickies.It was a good thing though because I enjoyed the thoughtfulness and the kindness of the people answering my questions.I made some pretty nice friends along the way too and that came from asking questions that like you say,the answers to,are in the stickies.That ment more to me then just reading through thousands of words.The knowledge on this forum is so outstanding,it's amazing and exciting to learn this new hobby of mine.My thanks to you Recluse and all who share this great world of casting and making boolits.
I am confused as to how you guys think gravity separation is a myth? So you are telling me that when I melt lead alloy the heaviest element (lead) doesn't sit on bottom while the lighter elements (Tin and Antimony) don't float to the top and create a scum that can be pulled off of the lead? If gravity separation is a myth then why would fluxing cause steel WW clips to rise to the surface of the lead? Likewise dirt, copper, bronze, etc? For that matter if gravity separation is a myth then how does a centrifuge work? Heck how does panning for gold work?
The simple truth is that gravity separation is a reality. Heavier elements sink, while lighter elements float. It's part of basic science and the periodic table of elements. Once the bond of ANY two or more elements is broken via heat or other method then gravity pulls the heaviest elements to the bottom, the next heaviest to the middle, and so on and so forth...... Heck I graduated from public school and I know that.
GoodOlBoy
Panning for gold? The gold and rock/dirt etc are not melted together. It is a myth, cannot gravity separate, what your talking about with scum on top of the melt is oxidation, a completely different thing than gravity separation. Because of the density of lead yes the steel clips will float to the top BUT the steel is not melted and part of the lead alloy.
If you believe that your lead ALLOY will/can gravity separate get ahold of the metals industry, I'm sure they will be fascinated to learn that they have it all wrong. :mrgreen:
Rick
Ok, so ethanol and water have different densities. Why doesn't booze gravity separate?
An alloy, like we are using, is similar to a solution. I can take salt, heavier than water, and dissolve it in water. If no evaporation occurs the salt will never gravity separate out. Wheel weight clips are not dissolved in the lead, they merely float in the lead.
The tin and antimony are like the salt, they are dissolved in the lead.
Go to the city pool. The chemical used to treat the water don't gravity separate out as they are dissolved in the water, as are the various minerals that cause hardness. They kids and pool floats always rise to the surface as they are suspended in the water, or dissolved in the water. The kids and floats are your clips, dirt, and grunge. The chemicals and hardness causing minerals are the tin and antimony.
The tin and antimony scum you see are because they have a far higher affinity for oxygen than lead at the melt point of our alloy. That means they oxidize far faster so the scum tends to have a higher percentage of those elements. We now have a suspension, not a solution as those oxides are far less soluble in molten lead. What fluxing does, of done with a good reducing agent, is reduce those oxides back to metallic tin and antimony which then dissolve back into the lead.
You might want to go back and revisit your high school, they might need to run a refresher course. Then again, this is just what my BS in Chemistry is telling me so I could be wrong......
Wait wait wait. Now I am not saying that lead just sitting in an ingot will gravity separate. But when heated to bond separation lighter elements float. Just as oil, water, and vinegar will make a nice salad dressing when shaken up and kept cool. If you heat it and let it sit you get separation. Likewise Lead and Zinc will separate as well, though gravity is only a PART of the equation for the separation.
From "The Metallurgy of Argentiferous Lead, A Practical Treatise on the Smelting of Silver-lead Ores and the Refining of Lead Bullion Including Reports on Various Smelting Establishments ... in Europe and America" – Manuel Eissler circa 1891.
P 287-288
“The charge is now stirred, and the zinc alloy skimmed off in the usual way. As this operation is repeated three times, it is necessary to have two desilverising pots, in order that a continuous working of the apparatus may go on. Upon mixing the lead and zinc two distinct alloys are formed—silver-zinc alloy and lead-zinc alloy. These are separated, not so much in consequence of their different specific gravity, as by the difference of their melting points. The silver-zinc alloy solidifies first in the process of cooling, and afterwards as the temperature falls the lead-zinc alloy crystallises out. “ The formation of the first alloy may be promoted by expos ing a larger surface for cooling, either by gentle stirring by hand or by a current of steam ; in the latter case the silver-zinc crystals are readily detached from the sides of the pot, and brought to the surface in the form of a pasty scum. As the formation of a rich silver alloy and a poor lead alloy require opposite conditions, the former being promoted by a minimum of zinc, the latter by an excess, the following operations can be divided accordingly into the production of a rich zinc-silver alloy and a poor zinc-lead alloy. “ The rich zinc-silver alloy is formed by making use of the alloy produced by the third addition of zinc to the former charge to the new charge of lead, and is effected by placing it at the mouth of the pipe through which the hot lead, free from antimony, is flowing into the pot. The thorough mixing is accomplished by steam, and the first zinc alloy taken off is now rich enough to be set aside. An experiment of this operation, when the lead contained 0'16 per cent. of silver after the first hour’s skimming, proved its reduction to 0'03 in five hours, whilst the zinc alloy contained from 0'74 to 0'94 per cent. “ The formation of the poor zinc-lead alloy is accomplished in a similar manner by the addition of fresh zinc only at the third operation."
So we know from this blurb that gravity doesn't have a much of an effect as melting point. "not so much in consequence" IE he didn't say gravity was of NO consequence.
If this same experiment is done in a micro G environment (Planetary Resources and Deep Space Industries are both experimenting with this as a solution for deep space mining) the crystals form, but don't float to the top. Why not? What is different? Gravity. Without Gravity the crystals don't migrate from inside the molten liquid to the top, or in micro g outside if you will. Instead they stay suspended, but crystallized within the molten mass. Only by adding a specific gravity or kinetic force (no I don't know what force is needed, I'm not THAT well read on the topic) will the crystallized particles make their way to the outside/top/etc of the molten liquid. As I understand it a good binder helps as well with keeping the crystallized state stable until separation can occur.
By the way. On the public school topic. I graduated with an advanced degree, with honors, and as a member of the All-American Academic Society, and at the time had the highest ASVAB score on record in the State of Texas. My record was beaten two years later by myself as I tried a second time to enter the military and they didn't believe my first score. Later that year a 17 year old from San Angelo beat my second score and as far as I know her score still stands as the record til this day. I have a college degree as well, and have been published as a writer. I have half a dozen different dive licenses. Was a Senior Tech Specialist III for the State of Texas for 15+ years. I have written software, designed hardware, and specialized in cross platform compatibility between antiquated systems and modern systems. I also Worked in Law enforcement for multiple years.. Have blacksmithed, gunsmithed, tanned hides, built electronics, done construction, been a licensed electrician, and am a pretty good cook. But I admit I suck at sewing on a button, which is one of the reason I married a seamstress. I have worked in my life as a cook, a stocker, a field hand, a ranch hand, a diver, a pressure vessel destructive test technician, and a few other odds and ends when I was bored.
Just because we are bright doesn't mean we are right, and the ability to regurgitate hand fed data back to a professor and thus gain a piece of paper does not make one the sole source of any given topic.
Edited to ADD: By the way if booze and water don't separate how do you make Apple Jack on a cold night in the northern US?
Thanks, and God Bless.
GoodOlBoy
These are separated, not so much in consequence of their different specific gravity, as by the difference of their melting points.
If your alloy is separating due to melting point issues then turn up the heat! Any bullet caster worth his salt knows that.
Look at the copper alloy threads. Copper added to lead alloys can cause issues with spout freezing unless the heat is turned up.
Edited to ADD: By the way if booze and water don't separate how do you make Apple Jack on a cold night in the northern US?
By allowing the hard cider to freeze partially. Water freezes at a higher temp than an alcohol solution so the first ice to form is largely water. This means removing the first bits of ice removes mostly water giving a higher alcohol content.
This is NOT gravity separation of a solution, it is removing something from the mix be freezing. Totally different.
Gravity separation of a molten, fully liquid, lead alloy at temps we use does not happen.
Well GoodOlBoy if you wish to believe that a lead alloy will gravity separate by all means please do. For all of your different jobs I didn't see mention of manufacturing magic wands, you should look into that career as one of those devices will be needed for you get a lead alloy to gravity separate. :roll:
Rick
Ric, you're both right...
The water freezes first, as the temperature is dropping.
The alcohol thaws first, as the temperature is rising.
BTROJ is correct, the freezing tends to push the alcohol and sugars into the center.
2 liter pepsi/coke bottles work great for this, fill them to the shoulder and let them age on your back porch while waiting for cold weather.
Wake up to a -20 morning, grab a strainer, a big bowl and empty what will run out of the 2 liters.
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOD stuff that packs a punch!
Be it apple jack or Wild Plum.
I call it "Freeze Brandy"
Lead however won't separate no matter how cold it gets. And I've known a few guys that thought it would gravity separate when melted, but never could prove it.
Ahhh yes---BUT---there have been threads on this forum about zinc contaminated alloy being "saved" by taking the cold metal, and bringing it to liquidus slowly, which is supposed to result in the formation of an "oatmeal" like layer (zinc) forming on top of the melt. This layer is then skimmed from the top of the alloy (allegedly) removing zinc from the melt! True or not?? If it is true and this method works would that not be "gravity" separation?? I do recognize that if the temperature continues to be increased the zinc would reintegrate into the alloy, especially if the melt is fluxed.
No, that is separation based upon melt point. It is actually very similar to the apple jack mentioned earlier. By manipulating temps we can "freeze" out a substance based upon melt point differences.
We are speaking of gravity separation of a fully liquid pot 'o lead.
No, cbrick, I have never had a job making magic wands. Being a Christian that would be out of my wheel house. Want to know why some members won't last? Because when they try to have a discussion you always have some joker who wants to throw in repeated BS comments that have nothing to do with the situation. If what you are looking for is magic, I would suggest you go rent a copy of harry potter and let those interested in scientific debate have an adult conversation. Thanks.
Any give element or compound floats because of buoyancy. Buoyancy does not work in zero gravity environments. Why?
It is very simple physics. You can say "Oh it's not gravity it's oxidation!" Why does oxidation float? Oxidation is defined asQuote:
For this reason, an object whose density is greater than that of the fluid in which it is submerged tends to sink. If the object is either less dense than the liquid or is shaped appropriately (as in a boat), the force can keep the object afloat. This can occur only in a reference frame which either has a gravitational field or is accelerating due to a force other than gravity defining a "downward" direction (that is, a non-inertial reference frame). In a situation of fluid statics, the net upward buoyancy force is equal to the magnitude of the weight of fluid displaced by the body.
. Once oxygen is bound to another molecule the molecule because lighter (assuming it is heavier than oxygen to being with) and begins to float. Why does oxidation float? Because of buoyancy. How does buoyancy work? Gravity. How about "Oh no it just does that once it is fluxed!" Why is that? Because flux either binds to the element and causes buoyancy, OR it causes another element to be formed (such as carbon or oxygen) which binds to the element and again causes buoyancy.Quote:
the interaction between oxygen molecules and other substances
By the way scuba divers are very familiar with gravity, buoyancy, and the effects of micro g or zero g environments. Some time look at a website for divers and look up the topic "How to achieve neutral buoyancy at various atmospheres of depth."
Sorry but it's science not magic.
Believe it, or don't.
GoodOlBoy
No not BS, you have been told several times already that a lead alloy cannot gravity separate. Not because it's a joke but because it's a fact. You quote an 1897 article but do you suppose that it's possible the metals industry may have learned something since then?
Oxidation only happens on the surface of the melt where the alloy is in contact with oxygen. Scuba divers have nothing whatever in common with molten lead alloys. Nothing.
Read chapter 4 in this link and perhaps you'll see where your confusing two things that are very dissimilar, oxidation and gravity separation. I recommend the whole book but chapter 4 is on fluxing and covers how and why.
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf
Rick
Now THAT reply was not BS cbrick. But suggesting magic wands?
So because I have been told multiple times, by people I don't know from adam, a thing is a fact I should accept it? No thanks.
Is the world still flat? Does lunchmeat still create maggots? Heck now science cannot agree on what the half life of some radioactive materials are and some believe that carbon dating may be off as much as millions of years.
Here's what I do know from metallurgy we as a society cannot recreate many of the processes used by blacksmiths throughout history to create iron and steel in forms that match what was made even 150 years ago. Sometimes look up the difference in irons made by blacksmiths in colonial America that had a fibrous nature to them when bent to the breaking point, and modern irons which don't. Or look up the ancient African iron men who could retrieve iron from red sand which modern foundries can't do.
So what does that have to do with the conversation? If a person smelting lead in 1891 believed that gravity was only a portion (but still a portion) of the equation does it automatically make that person wrong that their information was 200+ years old? Are we still using lead ore that's older than that book, or has all the newly mined lead ore started following different rules because time passed?
I read through the link you posted (thanks for that by the way saved a copy) and nothing in the link says that oxidation doesn't float because of the effects of gravity. Therefore if oxidation floats, floating is a direct effect of gravity, and we use oxidation to separate alloys we ARE using a form of gravity separation. All we are doing by oxidizing, fluxing, binding, or separating is removing bonds from one atom to another so that the lighter item can float or a heavier item can sink. And yet again nothing can float or sink without ..... gravity.....
Thanks for the conversation.
GoodOlBoy
Wow. The scientific base of the board is sinking fast.
The entire metals industry is so dumb. They keep adding chemicals to slurries of crushed ore to help concentrate the desirable mineral. They should just let gravity do the work.
The ability of a mineral to float depends upon its surface properties. Chemical modification of these properties enables the mineral particles to attach to an air bubble in the flotation cell. The air bubble and mineral particle rise through the pulp to the surface of the froth or foam that is present on the flotation cell. Even though the air bubbles often break at this point, the mineral remains on the surface of the froth. The mineral is physically separated from the remaining pulp material and is removed for further processing.
That is a quote from a website for Chevron Phillips for the floatation chemicals they produce for the ore refining industry. They mention flotation but not gravity. Hmmmmm
Here is what Merriam-Webster says about flotation.
Full Definition of FLOTATION
1
: the act, process, or state of floating
2
: an act or instance of financing (as an issue of stock)
3
: the separation of the particles of a mass of pulverized ore according to their relative capacity for floating on a given liquid; also : any of various similar processes involving the relative capacity of materials for floating
4
: the ability (as of a tire or snowshoes) to stay on the surface of soft ground or snow
No mention of gravity?
How about buoyancy?
Full Definition of BUOYANCY
1
a : the tendency of a body to float or to rise when submerged in a fluid
b : the power of a fluid to exert an upward force on a body placed in it; also : the upward force exerted
2
: the ability to recover quickly from depression or discouragement : resilience
3
: the property of maintaining a satisfactorily high level (as of prices or economic activity)
Based on your understanding of science relating to gravity a boat defies gravity. It should sink, it is made of a material heavier than water.
Wait, Archimedes long ago figured that out. The boat floats because the weight of the water displaced weighs more than the boat itself. That is what determines buoyancy and whether it not it will float. Notice it speaks of weights, not mass? The use of weight signifies that gravitational pull is included as weight is a unit of force, mass is not.
If I fall from a cliff I wasn't gravity separated from the cliff, I fell. I was never mixed into the cliff, I was never alloyed with it. Being that I wasn't part of the cliff I couldn't be separated from it.
Now you are arguing displacement vs flotation. I agree boats float because of displacement relative to the weight of the boat in question and the sectional density of the water it is on. IE salt vs fresh water displacement is different, however, most boats will float on both.
You can post definitions from sites if you wish, and I have done it as well. But for a really good discussion on gravity, sinking, and floating? http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=178483
But if you fall from a cliff you are acted upon by gravity are you not?
If a piece breaks off the cliff does it fall, float, or hover? I would assume it falls due to gravity, and that piece WAS a part of the cliff.
By the way the repeated argument of "Then why doesn't industry know to use gravity separation?"Seems to me the industry DOES know about it.Quote:
Gravity separation is an industrial method of separating two components, either a suspension, or dry granular mixture where separating the components with gravity is sufficiently practical: i.e. the components of the mixture have different specific weight. All of the gravitational methods are common in the sense that they all use gravity as the dominant force. Gravity separation is used in a wide variety of industries, and can be most simply differentiated by the characteristics of the mixture to be separated - principally that of 'wet' i.e. - a suspension versus 'dry' -a mixture of granular product. Often other methods are applied to make the separation faster and more efficient, such as flocculation, coagulation and suction. The most notable advantages of the gravitational methods are their cost effectiveness and in some cases excellent reduction. Gravity separation is an attractive unit operation as it generally has low capital and operating costs, uses few of any chemicals that might cause environmental concerns and the recent development of new equipment enhances the range of separations possible.
GoodOlBoy
Think of it this way. Gravity is a force, no more, no less. As a force it pull on everything in our lives. It gives us weight. It drives many things. We over come it to fly. It causes convection currents due to warmer air having less weight, hence it rises.
The fact that these things may not occur in space is hardly relevant to this discussion. I have no plans to cast bullets on the ISS so what might happen there isn't something I'm concerned about.
We are speaking of how gravity acts on a molten pot of lead. I'm concerned only with the liquid phase, not any solids. The liquid phase will not gravity separate, period. Can I induce chemical or physical changes to the liquid allowing me to separate things out? Absolutely. I can alter the temp or cause oxidation to occur but those are chemical and physical changes that ALLOW gravity to act differently upon some portions of the melt than on others. Gravity alone did not cause the separation, some other physical or chemical process played a larger role which allowed gravity to act differently based on differences in densities of the item precipitated out.
Wow. The scientific base of the board is sinking fast.
The entire metals industry is so dumb. They keep adding chemicals to slurries of crushed ore to help concentrate the desirable mineral. They should just let gravity do the work.
The ability of a mineral to float depends upon its surface properties. Chemical modification of these properties enables the mineral particles to attach to an air bubble in the flotation cell. The air bubble and mineral particle rise through the pulp to the surface of the froth or foam that is present on the flotation cell. Even though the air bubbles often break at this point, the mineral remains on the surface of the froth. The mineral is physically separated from the remaining pulp material and is removed for further processing.
That is a quote from a website for Chevron Phillips for the floatation chemicals they produce for the ore refining industry. They mention flotation but not gravity. Hmmmmm
Here is what Merriam-Webster says about flotation.
Full Definition of FLOTATION
1
: the act, process, or state of floating
2
: an act or instance of financing (as an issue of stock)
3
: the separation of the particles of a mass of pulverized ore according to their relative capacity for floating on a given liquid; also : any of various similar processes involving the relative capacity of materials for floating
4
: the ability (as of a tire or snowshoes) to stay on the surface of soft ground or snow
No mention of gravity?
How about buoyancy?
Full Definition of BUOYANCY
1
a : the tendency of a body to float or to rise when submerged in a fluid
b : the power of a fluid to exert an upward force on a body placed in it; also : the upward force exerted
2
: the ability to recover quickly from depression or discouragement : resilience
3
: the property of maintaining a satisfactorily high level (as of prices or economic activity)
Based on your understanding of science relating to gravity a boat defies gravity. It should sink, it is made of a material heavier than water.
Wait, Archimedes long ago figured that out. The boat floats because the weight of the water displaced weighs more than the boat itself. That is what determines buoyancy and whether it not it will float. Notice it speaks of weights, not mass? The use of weight signifies that gravitational pull is included as weight is a unit of force, mass is not.
If I fall from a cliff I wasn't gravity separated from the cliff, I fell. I was never mixed into the cliff, I was never alloyed with it. Being that I wasn't part of the cliff I couldn't be separated from it.
I agree 100%. My sole reason for arguing the point was that there seemed to be some underlying opinion that gravity had nothing to do with separation, when in point of fact it does. While it is not (as you have said, and as I have posted quotes agreeing with you) the MAJOR factor in separation it is A factor. Did gravity cause the separation? No. Could the separation have happened without gravity. Yes. Could the separated material float or sink without gravity? No.
So by saying that you cannot use gravity to separate lead alloy that has been heated and "fluxed" is incorrect because without gravity to cause the material to float or sink you would have a suspension, not a separation. But as a counter you cannot set a block of lead on the counter and watch the alloy separate just from gravity. Which I also stated earlier.
Heck I enjoyed the conversation.
GoodOlBoy
Ok I had to go back and reread because I thought posts had suddenly been deleted. It appears to me, I could be wrong, that for some reason the timestamps are not quite right and the lasts few posts seem to be out of order to me now. Otherwise how did I respond to displacement BEFORE btroj mentioned it?
Weird
BTW how did gravity separation become the topic in a thread about how some new member's won't last?
GoodOlBoy
When I'm casting, as long as gravity is keeping the alloy in the pot, that's good enough for me...:coffee::coffee:
You often can only dissolve only a small amount of solute in a certain amount of solvent. Spoon sugar into your coffee. After a while it sinks and stays sunk regardless of how much you stir it. Heat it up a little and more sugar dissolves, cool it off and sugar crystallizes out. Only a little zinc is soluble in lead. Have more and the excess zinc floats on the lead. At less than the solubility limit the zinc won't float out. Expose the homogeneous alloy below the solubility limit to oxygen and the zinc forms zinc oxide which floats. Lead oxide can form and be reduced back to lead by the zinc still dissolved in the alloy. I have been on and off this thread from early on. In my opinion the first part was pretty much an uncharitable put down of people seeking information and the last several posts have been long winded quibllling.containing bad information. Moderators you have not done your job. This post should never have been stickied and should have been closed long ago. Unstick it throw it in the trash and we can all work on restoring our past high standards.
I should have read this first before I started to ask questions that have been answered 100 times before, After discovering the search feature of this site, I feel that most of my questions can easily be answered with a little work on my part.