http://www.trewax.com/cgi-bin/catego...?category=msdsQuote:
I just looked up Trewax. I guess the clear paste wax is what you are referring to. I can't seem to access the ingredients but the description mentions carnauba so I may try it.
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http://www.trewax.com/cgi-bin/catego...?category=msdsQuote:
I just looked up Trewax. I guess the clear paste wax is what you are referring to. I can't seem to access the ingredients but the description mentions carnauba so I may try it.
Quote:
I just looked up Trewax. I guess the clear paste wax is what you are referring to. I can't seem to access the ingredients but the description mentions carnauba so I may try it.
MSDS doesn't list ingredients either(except for solvents). It has been awhile since I read MSDS on a regular basis but I don't think that it has what we are looking for.
John
W.TN
I've been looking into this too. JPW seems to be mineral spirits, parafin and carnauba, Trewax seems to be mineral spirits & carnauba but I can't figure out what the rest of the wax is and Briwax seems to be Toluene, beeswax and carnauba. Minwax seems to be such cheap basic fodder I doubt it worth bothering with.
Thanks for the info guys...
RECLUSE...
said "I melt the JPW, then "cook off" the solvents until I get a very viscal, thin liquid. On my griddle/hot plate, I set the temperature knob to 350F."
How long does that take to accomplish? How do I now when it is "done"?
I kept melting my dishsoap bottle when heating it with a heat gun, so I tried something new. I emptied my dishsoap of 45/45/10 into a old coolwhip container. When solidified, it was the consistency of thick peanut butter. I then just scoop out a tiny bit of the paste with a baby spoon or the end of a bullet and drop it in the Glad food container. I hit that with a heat gun as the food container is heat safe, and both preheat and melt the 45/45/10 at the same time. Works like a charm and even less mess than using the 45/45/10 as a liquid!
Howdy Guy, IIRC on a previous post RECLUSE stated he cooked the JPW for 15 minutes. As 2wheelDuke said be careful with getting it too hot, I started directly on the burner and after a few minutes decided to make a double boiler with another pot. I cooked mine for about 20 minutes this morning. We'll see how it turns out later today. With the heat here in Arid-zonia I hope it will solidify somewhat anyway;)
P.S. do it outside:drinks:
Welcome to the forum BouseBill!
Thanks Dannix, I coulda swore I posted an introduction, but guess I didn't, can't find it anyway/anywhere.
RECLUSE, question on the JPW/LLA? I cooked the JPW for a good 20 minutes and mixed the LLA at a 50/50 ratio, figured here in Arizona the problem would not be a failure to melt but a failure to congeal. As a test yesterday after mixing and bottling I put it in the fridge. Yep good congealing, pretty solid actually. Took it out of the fridge and left it on the counter over-night. Kinda runny, like chocolate milk this morning.
Should I try cooking longer or is the Arizona heat just too much for the wax base you think?
Bill
Texas heat does the same thing to my batches.
Remember: If the lube is sludgy or solidified prior to tumble-lubing, you have to heat it up and you want it fairly viscous. The single biggest mistake in tumble-lubing is made by applying too much lube and that generally happens because the lube is too thick when being applied. This is especially true when using straight LLA.
Also remember that two light coats of this blend works far better than trying one heavy coat. My routine is to lube, size, lube, load, shoot.
And again, I heat the lube up to where it is warm to the touch before I squirt some out to lube the boolits. If the lube "congealed" up nicely when in the fridge, sounds like all is well.
:coffee:
I guess I will have to put mine in the refrigerator to see if I get the same result. Mine is very thin even though my shop is air conditioned. I keep the temp at around 80-85º. Still feels cool when coming in from 100º outside.
John
W.TN
John, yeppers put it in the fridge and see what happens, it should congeal. I have to wait a few days before I can cast more bullets, we'll see how it works then:)
I did the fridge thing with mine. I kept track of it with an infrared thermometer as it warmed. It went from pudding to liquid between 70 and 75 degrees.
Just got done whipping me up a little batch of LLA/ JPW. I never knew that LLA was so awful till I started coming here. Now I'm on the road to recovery. My reasoning for trying it was, I think it is wise to use components I can obtain 3 blocks away ie wax at hardware store. VS ordering online. Plus I can say my lube is semi-homemade. Which is pretty cool.
I also posted over on the"45/45/10 Tumble Lube for production"thread.
I made a batch the other day and it seperated into layers with a darker liquid on top. I added about a teaspoon of carnauba flakes while cooking. Does this need more cooking?
Well this one has me scratching my head as I've never had that happen.
When did you add the mineral spirits? I add that minute amount while the LLA and JPW is still very warm and on the griddle/hot plate (which has been turned off by this point) and stir, stir and stir.
You also may have overcooked the JPW, leaving nothing to suspend the carnauba or blend in the alox.
I'm guessing at this point because like I said, A) it's never happened to me before, and B) I'm definitely not a chemist--Felix and a few others are the chemical gurus.
You might shoot Felix a PM and pick his brain a bit. If it's about lube, Felix knows it.
:coffee:
I never got around to putting my mix in the refrigerator. It separated on its own. So, the other day I got out the double boiler, dumped the first mix in and added more Alox 606-55, JPW and an estimated amount of mineral spirits. Heated it all up and stirred well. It sure looked thin enough so I poured it up into a container and put in the refrigerator. I thought to look at it a couple of days later and everything was still mixed.
I removed it from the refrigerator and let it set in the shop for a couple more days and it did not turn liquid. I put it back in the double boiler and added more mineral spirits. It still isn't liquid at room temp. but if I heat the boolets slightly I think it will work.
The problem with knowing how much mineral spirits is due to my using the Alox 606-55. It supposedly is the same as LLA except it is a thick paste. I will get there eventually.
Another thread is discussing an alternative to LLA/JPW. I wish them luck but I doubt that I will be buying any since I have that 5 gallon bucket of Alox 606-55. If I can interest my sons in casting, that bucket will serve my grandchildren if they are interested. Sometimes obsessive/compulsive behavior is not a good thing, even if connected with casting/reloading.
John
W.TN
Well I must admit something went right for a change:) Finally got to go out and do some shooting with the .357 loaded up with Lee’s TL358-158-SWC lightly bathed in RECLUSE’S Lube!:smile: Was most pleased with the performance of the JPW and LLA on the bullets. The barrel of my S&W Model 28-2 was the cleanest it has been shooting cast bullets. Just a very light touch of something dirty right at the start of the lands and groves on one quadrant and the rest of the barrel was clean. Followed the instructions for one real light coat, size, another real light coat and SHOOT.
Shooting was the most fun of course.:grin::grin:
Now, if the 45ACP shooting 220gr LRN will come out just as clean I’ll be one happy camper:grin:
Thanks guys for all your expertise and information.
Bill
P.S. the barrel was real easy to clean also.
Been following this discussion for a while. Just recieved my 462-465 GC mold from BABore and planning on casting in a couple of weeks.
Recluse I have a couple of questions:
1. I live in SW Montana, things can be cool for a very, very long time, sometimes, below zero for a month or so, during the winter and during hunting season. I read an earlier post about, not wanting the lube to freeze.....so, how willl that effect my boolit with the 45-45-10 lube in my Guide Gun on those very cool days....should I be concerned, with the lube freezin on the boolit during hunting season?
2. I see where you L-S-L, using two light coats instead of one heavy application.....I will be using Gas Checks on my BABore boolits, so I wondering if I tumble lube them a second time, what is going to prevent the GC from coming off during the second tumbling session?
Lonerider
First off, I envy you for where you live. :) I spent some time roaming around SW Montana and W/NW Wyoming on the back of a horse in my younger years. Older I get, the more nostalgic I get.
I've never had the lube freeze on me. Stiffen up, yes, but freeze no. Generally, my challenge down here in Texas is extreme heat rather than extreme cold. However, I have done some testing of the lube and boolits up in northern Maine during a late January. Tested in .357 Magnum.
I left my S&W Model 686 outside in the camp's covered porch. I grew up calling them cabins, but up there they refer to them as camps. Same thing.
The gun was extremely cold. I use Mobile 1 synthetic oil for my gun lubricants, and the 686 had no problem operating. I fired three cylinders at a range of 25 meters and noticed no change in accuracy or performance. Checking the barrel once back inside (and warm! I'm not a cold-weather person), looked just like it always does--little powder residue and mainly shiny and clean.
Basically, I noticed zero change.
As far as the gas checks falling off? I install the gas checks before I lube using an appropriate size Lee push-through sizer. If you don't have one or Lee doesn't make one for the exact size you're looking for, contact Buckshot--he does fantastic work--and he can make you one.
Once the gas checks are installed on a tumble-lube boolit, I've never had one come off from the light swirling action of tumble-lubing, so I wouldn't worry about that.
:coffee:
Thanks Recluse, thats what I needed to know. Will give it a try in the next week or so. We certainly can get below 0 degrees for a long time, towards the end of hunting season. Just did not want an unplanned obstruction in my barrel, from frozen lube.
As for the GC's, I will just have to try it and see what happens.
If you get up this way, let me know. I have a spare 'man cave' for visitors. Not much, but it works.
Lonerider
I have my mix at about 60/30/10, and it stays solidified. I scrape a chunk off the top with a baby spoon, drop it on top of the pile o bullets and hit it with a heatgun for 3-4 seconds to melt it down.
1 can o' JPW, melted down to 1/4 original volume
1 4oz bottle of Lee Alox
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...AxNzguanBn.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...AxODYuanBn.jpg
My atypically dry mix:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...A1ODMuanBn.jpg
Thanks Recluse. This may end my sticky boolit woes, and speed up production.
Please excuse my anal-retentiveness, but how exactly do you go about measuring the 3 components? I suspect the LLA and the mineral spirits are a liquid measure. But for the JPW, is that a dry measure raked off?
So for clarification, if I'm making a total of 9 oz of lube, I going to first cook down the JPW to a liquid and then measure off 4 oz of that as my first 45% component.Quote:
nope ...while the JPW is a semi solid at room temp it becomes liquid with heat
Is that right?
close .... the cooking part of the JPW is to remove most the excess solvent , once that is gone then u measure , merely heating the JPW up turns it into a liquid , some have used it without cooking it down ( some also merely use JPW and no other lube ) usually from what i recall tho it comes out thinner that way , that can i cooked all the solvent out of made some thick lube i'm saving for a special project ( lube stix w/beeswax ) once u cook off most the solvent then u can add mineral spirits as needed to help control viscosity ,it's much easier to add it in later if needed than to remove it later btw
Fryboy, Sent you a PM
Thank you, Recluse! look forward to trying it.
Should the boolits be warm or cold when applying this stuff?
WOW I read all 12 pages, I guess I gotta start reloading or sumthin! I will be off to get some JPW in the am and looking forward to trying this out. Thank you Recluse and every one else for asking the questions so I don't have to.
Seeing as how you live in Minnesota and it's been known to get cold there, if you're lubing your boolits and the ambient temperature is at or below say 50/55 F or so, wouldn't hurt to run a heat gun or blow dryer over the boolits for a bit before doing the first tumble-lube.
The second light coating. . . it doesn't really matter. You already have a base coat of lube for the second coat to adhere to.
And as always, make sure the lube is warm for good viscosity.
:coffee:
Thanks. That's what I did.
I was afraid if the boolits were cold (and they were) the lube would freeze up before I got it distributed. So I warmed them on a hotplate turned all the way down until they were quite warm but not uncomfortably so.
This thread may have started a year ago, but it's very good information.
Thank you recluse for taking the time to help us noobs.
Recluse,
I just read all 237 posts in this thread.
I think it is all great info, but this is the 2nd time I have read it and way back the first time, I missed the fact that it takes about 20 minutes to cook the JPW to the point you want it.
Plus it is half way through all the post before I could find if the measurements are by volume or weight. I did find that measurements are all measured liquid and the JPW is liquid AFTER cooking down.
It would be great if you could go back to the first page and add in these little details , so they are right in the beginning with the other info and pictures.
At any rate...thank you for moving tumble lubing into the fast lane...I have yet to try it, but I have my ingredients and it is on my list.
Thanks again for a great idea and thanks for taking the time to experiment with this and helping the rest of us.
Have a good 'un, TCG
2nd time today my computer did a double post in here.
Done.
For some reason, I thought after 30 days, you couldn't go back and edit an original post, so I never bothered. :veryconfu
When I wrote that up and put it together a year ago, I never expected it to get over 20,000 views. I figured maybe a couple hundred and then it would fade. . .
:coffee: