No stickies in swaging? This thread should be one. 10 ga
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No stickies in swaging? This thread should be one. 10 ga
I like the idea of making Swaging a separate forum altogether... Still under Cast Boolits, since it IS about fabricating our own projectiles.
Why is the spring needed?? Lets see if I can clear it up.
Lets start by looking at a die, in this example it is a point die for .224 bullets. This is how the die sits in the press. The bottom punch in this example is the ejector pin and goes into the ram. The hole is for the pin that the spring pushes against.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...e/DSC01288.jpg
This is the ram without the bottom punch in place
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...e/DSC01290.jpg
And with the punch in place. It just drops in.. There is a shoulder in the bottom of the hole for the punch to rest on
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...e/DSC01291.jpg
In this pic you can see where the spring comes into play. A pin goes thru the hole in the punch and the spring rests against the punch.
Basicly the spring is pushing the punch down into the ram
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...e/DSC01292.jpg
Under the punch is a knockout bar that can be swapped around with different width bars to regulate how far the punch goes up
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...e/DSC01293.jpg
So when the handle of the press is brought up the ejector pin will push the bullet out of the die.
And as the handle is pulled the ejector is withdrawn from the die so the bullet can be formed.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...e/DSC01295.jpg
Handle up
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...e/DSC01296.jpg
Handle down, The top punch is removed in these pics for clarity
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...e/DSC01298.jpg
Good lord that is a beautiful machine.
Great sight. No wonder I spend all my online time here. Just saw the model and drawings MATT did. Great work guys. If this dosen't spark the DIY in sombody....well you know.
Keep it up and Swage On!
BT
Indeed. It's threads like that that has convinced me to stop buying tools and instead buy tools to make tools.
Buy tools to make tools!!!!! Well said!
:swagemine:
BT
Just a bump
ANeat,
What would the demand be for a "Materials Package" ?
A person with access to the various markets could purchase bulk materials at a reduced rate, put together the materials pack and provide them at a reasonable profit.
Correct quantity of flat stock, bushings, cold rolled, ram, set screws.
Another step up offering could be a "milled and drilled" package. For "kit builders" without access to machine tools.
I, for one, would be happy to spring for a set or two. I have to pay shipping no matter how I buy it.
All one has to do is look at the niche BT Sniper is filling. With just a little bit of "word of mouth" advertising/exposure, I suspect the frustrating long Corbin waiting lists might become quite a bit shorter, and those of us looking to get deeper into the craft of squishing lead could get our hands on some real equipment instead of just "someday dreams."
I have a semi-retirement fantasy of rebuilding/winterizing my machine shop, but that is a year or two away.
Bob.
Bob thanks for asking, honestly I think if a guy with a small CNC mill could crank out the parts he could probably sell every one he could make.
The idea of a "kit" sounds great
Not only swagers but many reloaders doing the larger cartridges that wont fit the "standard" press would jump at the opportunity to get a quality press at a fair price.
If you need a "review" I might even spring for a "kit" myself
The only real tricky part is the ram. The top plate is a little bit tricky only because the cost of a tap if you don't have a lathe to thread it (or don't like to single point
threads). Every thing else is just drilling and tapping. A drill press and some sort of saw is pretty much all you need.
matt
"I think if a guy with a small CNC mill could crank out the parts he could probably sell every one he could make.
The idea of a "kit" sounds great
Not only swagers but many reloaders doing the larger cartridges that wont fit the "standard" press would jump at the opportunity to get a quality press at a fair price." [endquote]
My point exactly.
I had the opportunity to spend countless hours/days over the last 25 years working with a talented self taught machinist/entrepreneur (He built reproduction antique model airplane engines) so a well equipped machine shop has always been at my fingertips. One of his engines in even in the Smithsonian history of aircraft section. Alas, he had a stroke a few months back and now everything is literally boarded up. His goal was to live out his life pursuing a dream and a passion, and he did it well.
As I approach retirement, I have been (fantasizing?) hoping to find a similar sort of niche, perhaps in this swaging/reloading arena. Ive been shooting and reloading over 40 years. A project like this could provide a supplemental retirement income, but for me it is at least two years out.
Mill: While CNC would be nice, a little bit of a practiced hand and a good mill can be procured more economically.
Lathe: useful for finishing the ram.
Threading: The truest threads with minimal machine setup would likely be done with a good set of taps and dies.
Materials purchased in larger quantities would economize basic cost plus shipping.
My -S Press has roller bearings and bronze bushings, and it operates SOO smoothly! A few simple, similar finishing touches would set such a project head and shoulders above, or at least the equal of, anything else out there.
It could be offered in a variety of levels of completion depending on the DIY skills of the buyer.
This would be a good opportunity for a person with just a bit of investment is basic machine tools. Price it right and I would think that over a short time it could be as lucrative as a one's energy allowed. My real lament about this country of ours is, that it seems almost nobody makes anything anymore, and there is a diminishing pride in the things we do make.
For now, if somebody chooses to tool up, I'll be among the first to buy.
Bob
Really? I think that is a long way from realistic for many if not most of us without real schooling in machining and is dismissive of the skills that it takes to get those presses accurate and smooth.Quote:
A drill press and some sort of saw is pretty much all you need.
It equates a tool and die man with a lifetime of experience and knowledge with a back yard shed and a delta drill press and a hacksaw equipped tinkerer. I could no more make one of these even with those plans than I could make a model t ford. That is why most of us need the skilled hands and minds of the professional to provide our tooling and instead pursue our own crafts and skill sets.
I applaud the individual that develops not only the plans that make this possible but the hands that make the tools that we need. More suppliers for these tools only helps us all, and if this site can put another guy into a job, then thats one more off the soup lines and providing for himself.
Many of our vendor sponsors are doing just that, filling the voids seen and providing solutions and products to our membership that are willing and waiting to buy the tools and merchandise they offer.
Once again awesome work Aneat!!
With all the info you have given, i think i will draw my press up using Autocad software. This way it hopefully will take all the questions/guesswork out of it. I figure you have been hassled enough! I think between your info and Corbins website i could make a really good masher/reloader!
Thanks again,
BB03
BB03-
I'd like to see the end results of your autocad drawings. I've been following this thread with great interest, in the hopes of someday building me one of these. This is a GREAT thread!
A kit sounds like a great idea, too. If I could afford it, I might go that route if presented the opportunity.
I myelf have been watching this thread and studying the plans and everything. I have been talking to lots of people about different things so that I can educate myself to build me a press. I can somewhat understand the prices that people are charging to make and sell these press, however, they are out of the regular everyday Joe's budget. If I were able to build and sell press's, and coming from being broke all the time and not afford to buy much because of the economy, I would definately try to help others out by making them affordable as possible.....
Looking at the materials list, to make one press under 100.00 or right there abouts, that is defintaly worth my wild to get the parts and get to work on one...
I applaud you Aneat for sharing your knowledge and for allowing the plans to be made up and shared with everyone..
Guys thanks for the kind words..... plans are available, MattM provided them here
http://mattmorgan.org/cb_press_v2.pdf
Ive also add the link for the plans to the first post
Just been looking at the corbin website and the dimensions they have on there.
I think the press i will be making will be a cross between these two and Aneats press. For a start i dont need the large ram/die threads, suited to the .50bmg, we are not allowed this cal. down under as far as i know. I also dont see the need for swaging for 12ga. slugs. So basically i think i will make a CSP2/Aneat variant with the CSP1 ram/die threads and travel. May be a bit on the heavy side but who cares! Should be a great project!! This forum is the best! :D:D:D:D
BB03
Then again the bigger internal threads are easier to screwcut, and you can allways make adaptors/reducers. As soon as I finish my current project i will be making at least one of these babies! Cant wait to get started! Dont know why i brought a Rockchucker now, espcially now i have got my head around the linkage/ram travel assembly. Pretty easy when you think about it, with the 180deg. arc of movement/handle travel!![smilie=w:;););););)
BB03
Yes BB you can scale the design up or down to whatever suits your needs. I think there are some other large caliber dies that use the large threads besides the 50bmg. Some are 1.25x12, some are 1.5x12. Or just put the 7/8-14 threads in, you can always remove the top and re-thread if needed.
You may discover that you will want the extra size at some future date, why not build it in (if it won't hurt anything) and make it easy on yourself. Your butt can get real sore from kicking yourself! :lol:
Not being "allowed" doesn't mean you should not be able to, IF you ever needed the option. That is what freedom is about- choice, and being ready! :grin:
Yeah, thanks Aneat!
I think my rockchucker has 1.25x12 with 7/8x14 reducer to suit standard die sets, maybe i will make it the same 1.25x12. As i said cant wait to get started! I will be using your ram and linkage assembly. But would like to use some bearings on the side linkages and would like to have a go at a one piece toggle maybe? I will be printing your plans soon as i get this DAMN printer workin!!!:violin::violin::violin:
BB03
BB
Keep us posted on your build. It is always interesting to see what one can do when they put their mind to it!
Manley JT
I will keep you posted, but it may be a few weeks before i get into it unfortunately!
Im with you 45nut if someone can make this with a drill press and hacksaw, they are a better machinist than i am! I have 20yrs experience (mainly CNC). Without blowing my own horn, I would rate myself as above average machinist, and a try hard with Autocad! Saying that it can be made with these minimal tools is like believing that McGuiver can make a welder with a nickel, or 2 cent coin! I see this press as a great project, it reminds me of some of my old trade school projects. Cant wait to get started on a few!!
BB03
Ok, guys. I guess you have to be a master machinist to lay out some holes in some plate and drill them. I did qualify that the ram and top plate would probably have to be jobbed out if you don't have the tools. That is probably the way I would go if I didn't have a lathe and a mill. Looking back I should have also thrown in the welding of the toggle if you don't have a welder.
That being said I have seen some pretty amazing work done with very basic tools like a drill, a hacksaw and files. It just depends on if you have more time than money, and how bad you want something.
I guess my point was that for some people out there don't have the money or expensive tools, they shouldn't give up. Yeah it might not be as pretty as something you buy but it will work. My comments were more intended as encouragement rather diminishing anybody's work or how much effort would be involved if you did it with minimal tools.
matt
mattm-
The first lathe was built from scratch- wood followed by metal, and so on.
They were able to scrape to millionths of an inch back in the 1500's.
Galileo polished glass lenses for telescopes by hand, and discovered PLANETS with those instruments.
They told Columbus the world was FLAT, too- but he listened to Bugs Bunny instead! :kidding:
The Russians built their MIGs back in the 70's, and saved lots of Rubbles, by not polishing the heads off of rivets in non-critical aerodynamic areas.
Never say NEVER.
Anything in existence can be built given enough time, patience, and ingenuity!
I'm all for the guy who can do it without the fancy equipment, too.
THAT takes SKILL to figure out how to do something with supposedly nothing.
Some times it's called being "unconventional".
There is always more than one path to an objective.
The Masters don't always know everything, nor have they experienced every aspect.
Some HAVE forgotten more than others know, but most of those are dead now.
Don't worry about the insinuations- machinists used to build every tool, or gage they needed, but running anything short of CNC is now becoming lost art, too. People forget, how hard EASY used to be, or vice versa. :grin:
Modern equipment has just made things easier and faster to produce is all.
ANEAT, from what I can see the press looks great, this is the first time I have left a message so I do not know if I'm doing it right. I have just one question.
1. On your Top Plate you give no dim. for the slots I think are 7.500 apart center to center and the edge dim. is .750 am I correct? I just ordered all the material for this one it looks like a great project to do. Thanks for the drawings much appreciated. Keep up the good work.
Sprinkintime
Sprinkintime,
You are correct the center to center of the two slots is 7.5". I will fix the drawing. As for the edge dimension do you mean the thickness? If so it is 1".
Matt
Here is the new drawing with the correction noted above. There are a couple of other minor tweaks... The toggle dimensions have changed slightly and I think I added a shoulder to the arm.
matt
Welcome sprinkintime! :grin:
You're gonna luv this forum- lots of knowledge and fun to be had here, and an overall bunch of good people too. :bigsmyl2:
Thanks for the updated file post mattm!
You guys lost me a little, The prints show 3.25 from centerline to the slot so the center to center would be 6.5
None of that is super critical, you basicly want the linkage hanging so they will clear everything else and be aligned with the toggle .
Per the print you would have exactly 6" between the toggles; and the base as well as the guide plate are shown as 6" wide.
So obviously you want the space between the toggles a "little" larger, or you will need to trim a "little" off your base plate and guide plate.
Yeah, I guess I shouldn't try to do simple arithmetic at 1 in the morning :groner:.
I added the 3.25 dimension to the drawing and some how I wrote back 7.5" instead of 6.5". You are also right about the the base and guide plates. I think I would just hit them with a file or mill off 0.010 so the links don't rub.
Thanks for catching that.
matt
There are many things like that, for example you dont bore a 1.5 inch hole and expect the 1.5 inch ram to fit. The same with bushing fit.
Dont mill your 1/2 inch slots dead on 1/2 inch and expect the toggle links to slide right in if your 1018 stock is .501 thick. Measure your material and adjust as needed.
Its up to the end user to determine the tolerance that suits them. There are many areas where some planning is required.
Just curious, are the dimensions and function of this press pretty much like the Walnut Hill press? I wondered because if I could put one of these together would all of the accessories from RCE work on it?