But can you snipe a bunny with them?;)
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But can you snipe a bunny with them?;)
I agree that weight is a consideration. In a perfect world that 2 pound limit would be a good goal, however, in the real world that's a hard limit to make.
A Colt Police Positive in 32 or Police Positive Special in 38 Special gets pretty close to that weight limit.
A 4" S&W model 12 absolutely will make the cut, but they are a bit hard to find these days.
A S&W model 10 with a tapered barrel will exceed that arbitrary limit but not by much. When fitted with a 4" tapered barrel the K-frame isn't as light as a Police Positive Special but it's still fairly handy. When the same gun is fitted with a heavy barrel it is noticeably heavier.
Now a S&W J-frame with a 3" or 4" barrel will make the limit in either 32 Long or 38 Special.
In that perfect world.......I would want a stainless steel J-frame, Square butt, with synthetic grips, chambered in 32 S&W long with a tapered 4" barrel and decent sights. I don't think that animal exists but neither does that perfect world.
These days I use a 4" S&W Model 12 with wadcutters or 158 LN cut off to flat nose in trim die. Darned near perfect.
Attachment 261986
Outpost75 - I'm downright envious.
In an earlier post I said that the K frame was really too big to be a kit gun. Now I would like to suggest that an L frame I own makes a pretty good kit gun. The L frame I am referring to is the 386 Mountain Lite 7 Shot .357 magnum with the Scandium frame and Titanium Cylinder. It has a 3.125 barrel with an orange Hi-Vis Sight. Unloaded weight is only 18.5 oz. Recoil is snappy but not painful. This revolver is a delight to carry and a lot of fun to shoot.
This should be under 2 pounds with 21 rounds of .357.
vonfilm - An alloy L-frame with a titanium cylinder certainly would be a lightweight L- frame. And very weather resistant, not much there to rust. Load that with 38 Special wadcutters and you would have a good woods walking gun.
I'm not sure the 2 pound limit is carved in stone but I do agree weight is factor. Of course if we go metric and use 1 kilogram as our arbitrary limit, ....we can bump that up to 35 ounces :grin:
The description of a 4" K-frame encompasses a lot of territory. A 4" model 10 with a tapered barrel weighs noticeably less than a 4" model 10 with a heavy barrel or a 4" model 66 with a shrouded lug barrel.
We have some incredible materials available in today's world, albeit often with accompanying expense.
Just think what could be produced using today's materials and manufacturing techniques:
An aluminum alloy K-frame, with a titanium cylinder and a two piece 4" barrel utilizing a stainless barrel with an aluminum shroud. Add all stainless parts such as screws, triggers, hammers, etc.; and you would have an exceptionally lightweight revolver that was nearly weather proof and capable of firing +P 38 Special ammo.
To the best of my knowledge, no such gun has been offered by a major manufacturer but it's certainly possibly with today's materials and designs.
Is anyone at S&W paying attention?
I have a couple of guns that fit the kit gun role.
The 4.2" SP-101 in 327 Fed is the more capable gun of the two. I am currently using the gun for regular standing practice in the "snappy load" category. I am running a medium warm load with a powder coated 86 NLG at a Quick Load estimated 1450 fps. I am using a slightly faster powder (SW heavy Pistol - same burn rate as Blue dot or Accurate 9) than typical for full power loads. With this powder, there is a lot less flash and blast than with loads using H110. For a kit gun role, a much milder load (likely a 110 gr subsonic with fast burning powder) would be a better choice given the possibility of a discharge with no hearing protection.
The other gun is probably a better choice. A 3" LCRx in 38 SP +P purchased for my wife to shoot at the range. The gun is super light (15.7 oz). The light weight does have a downside. Recoil with standard loads was too much for her. However, she likes it fine with my "low recoil" loads of a 110 rn at ~ 700 fps. For a kit gun role, I am not sure at this point what load would be best. A 158 can provide a good punch with low blast/noise, but I am kind of partial to my Lee 120 TCs loaded to +P velocities. I would have to do some shooting out in the field with both to decide.
Both are suitable for wet service. The SP-101 is all stainless but on the heavy side, 29.5 oz. The LCRx is a mix of polymer, hard coated aluminum & stainless.
You guys made me rethink what a kit gun is. Used to think it was a lightweight .22 double action revolver. Now I am giving some serious thought to a 4 inch 38 special with some warm loads.
Have to keep an eye out for a new toy.
Great thread.
All the talk about K frames has me wondering about my titanium 41mag tracker. Seemed a bit big when I carried it fishing for a while. Didn’t notice the weight at 22oz empty, in fact forgot it was back there one day till I sat on it. But just bulkier than a J frame. Never weighed it loaded but probably would make the 2 lbs with 18 rounds. Need to make some more shot loads for it.
Attachment 262169
I weighed this Model 10 and it comes in at 951 grams or roughly 33.5 ounces. So, empty, it's over the arbitrary 2 pound limit but only by 1 1/2 ounces. It does come in under 1 kilo.
Petrol & Powder. Agree that a kilogram is a good level and that the 2 pounds doesn't have to be chiseled in stone.
going afield, i like the ubiquitous .38spl centerfire round. that's why months ago i bought a model 67 as the big brutha to my model 642. yes, it's got a fat bbl with a few more added ounces to heft around, but that's ok by me. having vision issues, it was difficult to focus on the front sight and so i did something i really didn't want to do, added a red dot.
https://i.imgur.com/ue4Vml5.jpg
I would be happy with my Ruger Wrangler in kit gun role. Accurate enough to get groceries and light enough to carry a lot. And Ruger tough to boot.
The SP101 .327 Federal magnum with a 3” barrel seems like a perfect kit gun to me.
rfd - like you, I have long held the 38 Special in high esteem. It is a fantastically versatile cartridge. The barrel on the 67 is not quite as svelte as the tapered barrels of the fixed sight models (that top rib adds a little weight) but it is still lighter than the heavy barrel models.
I spent years looking for a model 67 and couldn't find a decent one that wasn't overpriced. I will not say the model 67 is rare (it is not rare) but I will say finding a reasonably priced good one has become difficult. Looks like you found a nice one, and is that a round butt?
/\ That setup does have a LOT going for it. /\
The SP101 is a little tank. Stainless steel and about as close to unbreakable as a revolver can get.
I always thought the 32 H&R mag was a great concept and I wish that cartridge had caught on a little more. By the time the 327 Federal Magnum came along, I was long out of the 32 S&W / 32 H&R mag game. The 32's are starting to gain my interest again.
I have two handguns that would qualify for Kit gun usage. A S&W 34 with a 4 inch barrel and a S&W 60 with a 3 inch barrel(38 special only).
These two would serve quite well for light weight carry or backpack guns. The only possible drawback I see is they both wear adjustable sights. These sights can be a blessing or a curse depending on the circumstances.
For my sidearm, I prefer a somewhat heavier gun. Depending on what I expect to face, I have S&W models 13, 15, 19, and 686. These will handle anything I am likely to come in contact with in my area.
Ruger EC9 wouldn't be bad if you took the time to find a load or adjust the sights for proper POA/POI. Shotshells might be a bit iffy, but if your aim is good, solids will kill a snake just fine. To me, a kit gun is fairly inexpensive, not $500+.