Super, got the package today. Nice, and packed well. THANKS!
Printable View
Super, got the package today. Nice, and packed well. THANKS!
Like Supe, while waiting on the second half of my dies from BT, I've been doing a lot of tinkering. And, I've got another tool on the way - a 3D printer. I've spent some time coming up with things I'll use when swaging. One of the things I'm going to try is seeing whether I can print out one of these core shakers in ABS plastic based on the details Supe provided here (thank you!). It "should" work... what I'm not sure of is the countersink / chamfer. I'm going to try one this way first and see how the chamfer from my drawing translates when printed.
http://www.rnlvideo.com/reloading/3D...mplete_Web.jpg
http://www.rnlvideo.com/reloading/3D...nd_top_Web.jpg
http://www.rnlvideo.com/reloading/3D...hamfer_Web.jpg
ricklaut- Yup, looks good. I found the chamfer works best when it is a radius instead of straight sided. The sharps angle at the point of contact to the hole will keep the jackets from falling in easily. I found the upper width of the chamfer need to be about 60% of the jacket length ( .710" X .6 = .426" ) Longer jackets, wider at the top, deeper hole. Cores don't seem to care so much. Make sure your holes are deep enough to keep the top edge of the jackets below the chamfer to keep the cores from hanging up. Also, make sure your trays have some way to keep them lined up perfectly (alignment pins?). 3D printer, sounds like fun. Today, shaker trays....tomorrow, receivers? Just thinking out loud.
Supe
I specified a variable radius chamfer, but either the drawing isn't reflecting it or there's a bug in the software (I'm using Free CAD, so it could be a case of getting what I paid for). What I think I'll do is print the first one with different dimension chamfers to assess the printing resolution / software settings - that would also give a good opportunity to test how the differences shake out (literally!). I was thinking about alignment pins, but another thing I'll be testing is the clearance between the outside case & the two layers. In theory... they're clearanced tight enough to not need pins (but we'll see how that plays out....).
Hmm - I... (um) never thought (cough, cough) about - um - receivers. It would be cool to print one just to have a great conversation piece, but I can't see myself being willing to put it together and try it. Lots of other stuff to do first though... I've got a "bleed catcher" for the core swage die (using those nice holes Lee provided!), and after realizing that my sheet metal fabrication skills are horrible, I've got a catch tray drawn up. Then there's die holders & die plate holders. My list is long - hope I can make this thing work!
I use the alignment pins and a less tight fit of the fence for ease of tray removal. I tried different angles of the chamfer. The most extreme angle worked okay but the radius style chamfer worked best.....for me. Your attempts are definitely higher tech than my approach. My experimentation was pushing a jacket with a stick over a chamfered hole and watching how it fell and going from there. My trays, as of right now, are 1/2" upper and lower. My improved model may be 3/8" lower with a 5/8" upper. It'd expose a little more jacket for better grab action. Something you might consider. The holes in my Lee are just screaming to be used for something.
Supe
Ah - I wasn't thinking about removing the fence. I may have to tweak that a bit & build in a solution. I would imagine that with a tight fit, it won't want to come straight up & off.
Working from an unobstructed tray makes it a lot easier to get to them little buggers. Removing the fence makes access a heap easier. Ask me how I know.
The printer came today & the factory test print came out as expected. It's printing the top tray now; it's a slow process, but hopefully it will be done by morning (fingers crossed!).
Well, as with everything, there is a learning curve. The bad news is I cancelled the build 25% of the way in after realizing there was a problem. The problem relates to machine settings (build plate heat temp...) which was allowing the ABS on one corner to lift up & curl. The good news is that even though it wasn't successful, the 25% of it that is built is VERY promising. But that didn't include the chamfer... So, a little research is in order before I kick it off again.
In the mean time, I'm trying something else swaging related. It's smaller & shouldn't suffer from the same problem :).
You will probably find that long parts warp more. There are a couple ways around it with one being to design slots into long sections to allow some stress relief. In this case I recommend that you change the design to be several pieces. It is easy to glue parts together to get a large assembly. I do it on a regular basis. For a 100 hole fixture you could do (4) each with 25 holes. Think about the grain when designing.
ps, when you have it working will you send me a copy of the file? :bigsmyl2:
Great advice... I'd been problem solving by looking at the machine and finding ways to keep the temp up on the build plate, but hadn't considered what I might do differently in design. I did think about the 4 pieces, but haven't had a chance to draw it up yet.
Sure - I'll pass it along. I hope to try a few more things this weekend on that particular one; in the mean time, the printer is staying busy with a bunch of other builds. I foresee getting up about 2 AM to kick another one off - trying to maximize the number of hours in each day :).
I haven't given up on this yet - I've just been busy printing all of the other (less challenging) things first. After learning a few things about how to control warping / shrinking, I'm giving the full size shaker another go.
http://reloadingcreations.com/wp-con...915-144502.jpg
I made a one holer out of boredom tonight. I can print an array later to get the qty needed. The thru hole is .3 dia, the top entrance is .44 dia x .08 deep and the transition between the two is a 20 deg/side angle. .08 wall th everywhere. As built it has a 1 x 1 sq top and took 11 min to print. I will probably modify it so the array of holes is similar to yours but first I want to find a tray/ammo box to use. I will set the spacing to match if something is available.
Finally! Building off Sitzme's idea of starting with a small array, I found the magic spot in the hours before work today. The dimensions work - the hole is perhaps a little too loose, but I'll know that for sure when the bottom part is done.
http://reloadingcreations.com/wp-con...916-065635.jpg
I can't post a picture right now but mine would remind you of a funnel with a square flange and no side walls. After printing the first one like you did, I tried the straight wall for .08. I found a plastic .17HMR ammo box and if you use holes 1,3,5 on the short side they are .625 apart. So there is a 3 x 5 array on .625 centers waiting for me at home. The idea is to shake in the first group, index up 1 hole and shake in the 2nd group. That will give 30 in 3 rows of 10. I need to find a better source of the ammo boxes than the shooting spots out in the desert though! The one holer seemed to work pretty well but that doesn't mean much yet.
Ok - I think we're in business! With a two-hole version of both the base and the top / funnel, both jackets and cores seem to drop as expected. Moving up to a 25 hole version that will be 1/4 of the final product. The top piece is printing now, and I should be able to print the bottom overnight. With those two pieces, an improvised 'fence' and some cores / jackets, we'll see where we're at.
http://youtu.be/u2EruZJ3DtY
After several setbacks, I have a working proof of concept of Supe47's core shaker made on a 3D printer! It's not yet perfect, but it works. There are several problems to solve:
I'm still fighting some lifting / warping on the bottom, even though this print is much smaller. However, even though the bottom is a little bowed, it will still work - the top is nice and level. It's not as pretty as it could be though.
My hole sizes may be a little large. I'm finding that with ABS, holes (in particular) tend to shrink from the size they're drawn at. So, after my first prints, I had to enlarge the holes but I didn't know for sure how large to go. After a few trials, I went with a 7.4mm (.291") on the drawing. That translated to a 6.6mm (.259") hole in the plastic. That works for the jackets, but the cores tend to hang up on the edges of the jackets as they're going in the holes. This may also be solved by making one of the trays a bit higher (so jacket lip is lower relative to the chamfer & the core is at a steeper angle falling into the hole and less prone to catch on the lip of the jacket). Or, a combination of both.
Combining pieces together. As drawn, I included a small cut / relief on the base edges thinking they'd align well and be a place for the glue to go. But, with the warping, those edges may need to be at the top, and I'll glue these together sitting face down. These pieces will make a good test for that.
Layer alignment. Right now, nothing is implemented to align the top & bottom layers. I'm thinking of putting little nubs on the bottom layer that would align with small divots on the top layer.
The fence. This part (should) be simple :). This should just amount to a box. But, given the warping / lifting, I anticipate the size of the completed box is going to cause some problems.
http://reloadingcreations.com/wp-con...917-035129.jpg
Oh, and two other lessons... designing stuff to work on a 3D printer isn't quite 'plug & play; I'm wishing at the moment I had an engineering background and not a criminal justice background :).
As I'm learning to control the warping / shrink on the corners of flat pieces, I've accumulated a number of imperfect pieces. So, even though the bottoms of these are warped to varying degrees, I wanted to use them to test bonding them together accurately. And, since I know from my smaller test that the jackets & cores drop, I wanted to scale it up anyway to test my fence (which will print today). In the mean time, here's a combined top plate:
http://reloadingcreations.com/wp-con...918-051822.jpg
These are glued together with ABS slurry (pieces of scrap melted in acetone). The white one? Yeah, that's what happens when you're clicking through options in the software to get a print going before bed (chose to send it to the extruder loaded with white instead of black by mistake).
Oh, and the warping? Lon suggested adding a small, flat cylindrical piece at each corner that breaks off after printing. It made a huge difference!
Printing the last section of the bottom plate now, and then printing the fence while I'm at work today. Then, assuming this all works as planned, I'll go back to a smaller version and test a few improvements to the sizes & design of the holes, and distance between the top of the jackets and top surface of the plate.