MJ, did you ever shoot any of that lube I sent you?
Gear
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MJ, did you ever shoot any of that lube I sent you?
Gear
Only the "Sulfur" lube so far (see several pages ago) then I ran out of good boolits and work became a nasty time consuming diversion from casting and shooting. I can also blame the weather for keeping me away from the casting furnace; however, I do believe I found a 6-cavity mold this summer that my '06 should like (Ranch Dog's 311-170). Therefore and to wit, a large batch of shinny new boolits for my test mule shall come to the fore. :bigsmyl2: (or something like that).
I sit at my computer and wrestle code all day so an occasional trip to "the board" to bug others for lube knowledge is my diversion. How's that for an exciting life? [smilie=p:
MJ
I see we're using Ivory. Any reason for not using or problems found with using stearic acid? Thanks for the info on Motul also.
I assume you actually mean sodium stearate rather than stearic acid since there's a big difference between the two and plain white Ivory soap is very similar chemically to sodium stearate (sans a bunch of water and impurities in the former).
Even though purchasing sodium stearate from a chemical supplier will provide a more consistently pure "reagent" for "gelling" oils, I suppose it's a lot more convenient to pick up a few extra bars of Ivory on a grocery shopping trip. Also, Ivory is probably pure enough for our needs.
MJ
Stearate acid isn't going to work nearly as well. For one thing we need a soap to form a proper grease, stearate acid isn't a soap but sodium stearate is.
I beleive a few here tried stearate acid in Felix lube at one point and found it seemed to cause some issues, oneor which was a tendency towards rust.
We need the sodium stearate to really do the job right. Like MJ said, Ivory soap is a very viable alternative to pure sodium stearate as it is largely sodium stearate. Other soaps have too much stuff added in to be nearly as good for the job we ask of them.
Stearic acid causes corrosion of brass, barrel steel, and the inside of lube-sizers when used in even small quantities, such as one tablespoon per half-pound of lube. It is not a soap, and is reactive where sodium stearate is stable. Sodium stearate is made from the reaction of stearic acid (a fatty acid derived from animal fat or vegetable oils) and sodium hydroxide (lye). It's how Ivory soap is made.
Gear
Gear,
I may have another possibility.
When the barrel conditions are consistent from breach to muzzle, so are the groups. In other words, the first group shot through a clean barrel is OK but when the fouling starts, the groups open up until the barrel is consistently "fouled" or "seasoned from breach to muzzle. How's that for a hypothesis? More testing to follow.
So what is your impression of the Redline two-stroke oil or two-stroke oils in general. I probably have some more of your Sulfur lube; but, I'm wondering which one to test next. As I recall there was a little green brick included in your package that you suggested I try next.
MJ
P.S. Here's a view of the targets again: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...postcount=1029
Give me a little time, MJ, there's something else I want you to try instead. In the mean time, you might give it another go, it isn't a dead concept by any means yet, we're trying to determine what the carnauba wax does, and that stuff has a LOT of it in there.
Gear
gear when joe gets back to you on the vaselline thing let me know will ya...
his sounds [maybe?] somewhat similar to the slack wax. ivory. [stearated] vaseline lube we discussed some pages back.
Yeah, lately I've been thinking about waxes and how inconsistent beeswax can be. I started fooling around with high concentration Carnauba wax lubes earlier this summer but wasn't able to create anything I liked.
MJ
Bingo. Modern, white Vaseline needs some help to get the stringy polymers put back in. I just about have it worked out into a testable version. Batch #26 of Joe's recipe looks pretty good, plus I've been testing the sample he sent me more lately and it's fantastic stuff. If it behaves in my guns like it does in his in the winter I do believe the quest may be nearing conclusion.
The IvoryEsterBee is proving to be a bit persnickety with barrel temperature in hot weather, not sure why. Maybe if I added Alox 350 to it like Eutectic did it would fix it and the solvent effect of the ester oil would fix the Alox buildup thing.
Joe is using a minimally filtered petrolatum and adjusting the viscosity himself, I'm having to un-refine white petrolatum by adding some of the goody back in and still adjust the viscosity to give it what I think are the correct qualities. One good range session next week will tell me a lot.
Gear
i keep forgetting he worked in a refinery and especially a lot with parrafinics.
add to that vaseline has changed somewhat throughout the years plus the different brands are different formulations.
so sticking with the original brand is most likely the best bet.
You know Lamar and Gear....this thread started in March and has over 1100 replies. Now all we're asking for is a lube that lets us shoot at velocities up to 6000 fps in a temperature range of minus 70 to plus 230 degrees. And we'd like it very easy to make up.....and ofcourse REAL cheap too. What's taking so long?......lmao.
Ian, when nearing completion, make several one pound batches, different days for each batch. Alter the "cooking-times and quantities" of each component slightly to emulate what will be done by other folks using different feed stocks (of the same "brand"). Shoot several groups with each batch, same gun, same load. Hopefully, there will be no realistic difference in the groups. We need to make sure the "formula" is fairly repeatable when chosen to be. TIA ... felix
Not quite there yet, Felix, but working on it. The first test is to compare my version to Joe's apples-to-apples to see if I got it right. Next will be trying different versions of "Vaseline" to note the effects, since the other three ingredients should be fair "constants". Vaseline has proven to be critical to final consistency, not sure yet how much effect it has on the way it shoots.
Gear
gear have over 50 gallons of petrolatium for you let me know what you need.
bruce
Much obliged, Bruce. Let me do a little more testing and I'll have a better idea of what I'm looking for.
Gear
scott:
some of the issues plain out is just man hours.
we have made some better than,and lots of as good as, and several batches of good untill.
thrown out and beat down lots of ingredients and have more in testing.
it's just more men needed for some of the thinking,trying,making,and testing.
to completly try out a lube it has to be shot in the hot cold and warm,fast slow and medium.
it takes time to try out one lube and a couple of it's modifications.
see where it excels,and fails then figure out if that is it's limit or to modify it.
then how much to modify it without taking away from the other end of the scale.
Gear: i am wondering if "oxidizing" the vaseline might have a [positive] effect?
Have to ask, has anyone considered replacing some or all of the Vaseline with Cosmoline?
My understanding was that Cosmoline was a similar substance, just not as highly refined.
heard of people wanting to try it but haven't ever heard back on any results.