Lags,
I just finished up with some Tree of Heaven charcoal. If you would cover the cost of a flat rate box, I could get you enough float for a couple of 1 pound batches.
swamp
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Lags,
I just finished up with some Tree of Heaven charcoal. If you would cover the cost of a flat rate box, I could get you enough float for a couple of 1 pound batches.
swamp
Fence boards of western cedar work very well.
Cedar might be the way to go.
At least I will know that Moths will not be eating my barrel.
And you guys are correct about the selections of good woods here in Arizona.
In my Yard I have two Mesquite trees and an old Jacaranda.
Great for nose caps, and Knife handles, or maybe some pistol grips, but not much else
Let us know how things work out?
Fly
They are used for metalworking. Probably jewelry stuff. I use it for making armour - the knuckle gadlings are easy to form.Quote:
Wow that's a new one for me. What are they used for. I can see they work great & would also be good for flaring tube. Is
that there main use?
Steve
Whats your thoughts on weeping willow? lots of those in the midwest.
The first powder I made was with some kind of Willow I found along the roadside. It turned out to be something called Sand Bar Willow. It worked just fine. Now I use Tree of Heaven because it is everywhere on my farm and it gives about 50fps more speed than the Sand Bar Willow.
Bob
Well Bob & many others really like Tree of Heaven. But I have none of it growing near me & never shot that. I,m sure there
are some better than Black Willow. This subject has been beat to death over the years in so many places. But the US army
has used Black Willow as far back as can be traced. The Swiss use Euro Alger. Not much of that around the US though. All
I can say is Black Willow works for me. It is the ole tried & true for so many. I can say this all black powder burns dirty, no matter.
Some burn worst than others. Some so bad you can hardly get a second shot in with out cleaning the barrel. You are right
indian joe one the dirty factor. But yes I have tested many over the years, but it would take a life time to answer which is best.
That why I have settled on Black Willow. I wish I could help more but that is all I have in this ole brain trust (wink).
Fly
You use, what you got. I sure wasn't saying that Black Willow is worse, just that I don't have any around me. Same reason that they use Alder in Europe. Tree of Heaven is native to the far east like Pawlonia and hasn't been in this country all that long or maybe it might have been the go to CC. Fast growing soft woods seem to make the best powder and TOH grows so fast you can darned near stand and watch it grow. It is a highly invasive tree and very difficult to eradicate. The power companies around here spend a fortune trying to keep it out of their power line right of ways. Just trying to do my part.:p
Bob
I'm wondering if anyone had tried Brazilian Pepper for charcoal. It's a fast growing invasive species here in Florida and produces a good honey flow in the late summer. I've been keeping an eye on the B. Pepper locally because I keep a few bee hives for honey production and like to pull different flavor honeys during the summer.
Already have a source for Willow, not sure what type but it is growing in the drainage ditch on the back of the property. Too many charcoals and not enough time.
I pressed my first two pucks today. Things did not go well. I don't know if I had insufficient clearance in my die or too much, or if I pressed it too hard. The die was one I made on my lathe, with a nice slip fit.
Even though I thought the mixture was rather dry as I kneaded it, I got a tablespoon or so of black goo coming out of the bottom of the die when I pressed it. I have no idea what pressure I pressed it at, but it's a 30 ton press, and I cranked it pretty hard; until no more goo came out, then a bit more, until the resistance became quite strong. Maybe too much?
After pressing the first puck, I couldn't get the puck out, so I had to hammer the piston out until the puck was free. Then the piston was stuck in the cylinder, apparently from fine powder mix that got in the clearance and got pressed, too. Then I had to hammer out the piston, too.
I washed off all the powder caked onto the piston and cylinder and got back my nice slip fit on the die. I did another puck. This time, no pounding was going to drive the puck out, so I had to make an extension for the die piston and press the puck and piston out. The puck was so packed to the end of the piston, I had to pry it off. The piston came out hard, and when I finally got it out, the walls of the piston and cylinder were all galled up.
So my die is ruined, and I don't know if I have any aluminum bar stock big enough to make a new, slightly larger piston after I bore out the cylinder to clean up all the galling.
I'm also concerned about the rest of my 1 pound powder mix. I put it into a sealed container after the pressing disaster. If it dries out some, I guess that's a good thing, but I think if it dries out completely before I can get a new die made, I think it will be all hard and impossible to do any further work with. Maybe not.
What do you experienced people think went wrong? Is the rest of my powder mix going to be usable?
Attachment 217226
Besides the die galling, i dont see any issue at all. The two pucks you got will be great. The goo only means too much water. Give it a couple days and try again. If the pucks are then too brittle, smidge more water. You’ll get it. The rest of your meal is good. Add water or time as needed to get it right for pressing. You can go back and forth as needed, you are good.
Only big problem is the galling. Thats not good. I don’t know the root cause. Misalignment? Too much press tonnage? Dunno. My suggestion to you tho: concentrate on the die galling, and fix that. Everything else is fine or salvageable.
Wish i had a good 30 ton press :)
A 30 ton press might be a little over kill. Most guys use a 6 or 12 ton press. I use a bench vice and it works fine for me.
Bob
I made a new die, using the suggestion above. Much wider and shorter. Still got stuck VERY tight after pressing another (still too wet) puck. Made a nice puck, though. I'm soaking the die in hot water now to try to loosen the goo that seems to migrate between the cylinder and piston, then binds it up tight. I made this one with even tighter clearances - no more than 0.001" clearance. I still don't know if a looser fit would help, but making it tighter sure didn't seem to help. I could press the piston out, but I'm afraid of wrecking another die with galling. I even smeared a light coat of anti-seize on the piston OD before using it. My thinking was that, with a tighter clearance, less room for powder to get pressed in there and jam it up. I've got it soaking in hot water now to try to loosen the powder that seems to work its way into the clearance, then get compressed and jam everything up.
My mix was still a bit wet. I had stored it in an airtight container, cuz I knew it would take me a few days to make a new die, and I didn't want it drying out and hardening. I've got it sitting out now uncovered, to try to dry it more, which will hopefully result in less migration into the piston-cylinder gap.
What sort of piston-cylinder clearances do you other guys have on your dies? Are others having to press the piston out of the cylinder after pressing? Anyone else experiencing galling after pressing?
New die:
Attachment 217425
I think that the moisture is the problem. It seems that it is being forced between the die and body. Carries the powder with it, sets up and the die is stuck. Better to have not enough moisture. easier to fix.
Just my take. I moisten just enough to hold the powder together.
swamp
PM....Mr Fly and ask what his tolerance is
I have used his puck maker for years with NO issues
Have a great week
Lee
good idea! I sent him a PM. ITMT, I was able to press out my piston from the cylinder without scoring it. In this pic, taken from the bottom of the die, the clear part is where the puck was, and you can see the black film where the goo migrated up the cylinder wall above the puck, where it then got hardened into place. My container of powder mix has sat out uncovered since last night, so I am hoping that it will be dryer for tonight's attempt.
Attachment 217482
PM sent.
Fly
With my cobbled together puck die I'm using a plastic piston with about 30 thousands clearance. When I press on it the piston expands and seals the die. I still get water past the piston if the mix is too wet. Once I let off the pressure the piston relaxes and shrinks down to it's original diameter and is easy to remove. I still have to pound or press the puck out of the die. Didn't plan it that way but hey it works.
I got my pucks made. They weighed 14.5 oz, so I apparently lost 1.5 oz in the process. Funny thing is, when I got it down to dry enough that it wasn't oozing much, it really didn't press quite as hard and tight as it did when it was oozing, even when I really cranked it up to max pressure. It seems the proper wetness is a very fine line. It seems like I got better pucks when it was wet enough to ooze some. Top 2 small pucks were from the first die version, top one from Die-II was after the mix got dried out, and the edges kinda flaked off. The rest I did at that dryness were done at max pressure on the 30 ton press.
Attachment 217654
You let them dry for a day & see how hard they are then.
Fly
I also get better pucks when it oozes some. Fine line indeed. Lots of oozing is a HUGE mess and lots of wastage. But not enough and my pucks fall apart into dust.
The golden state is when it oozes clear liquid. That is a supreme fine line, but that magic land is super clean and results in excellent pucks.
I been doing this for some time & zero water comes out of mine. I have a friend in Florida who is the smartest
man I know in making BP & fireworks. He makes commercial fire works for a living & taught me much, & written
a few book on top of that. He tells me he does not even wet his because of the humidity in Fla.
I don't know guys I have made countless puck dies & never had a complaint. I have not a clue what the problem is.
Wish I could help.
Fly
Pic is kinda fuzzy, but a few of those look like some I made and didnt add enough water.
How fine was your green mill?,
I add just enough water to get the mill to start to try and cake togetger when pressed by hand. I use a set of lee powder dippers to measure it and once I find the right amount, I stick with that. The amount may change between batches/days. Using fly's die and a 6 ton press, I want to see a VERY slight bead of water at max pressure. Doing it this way, my pressed pucks come out if the press hard as a rock. Usually the top edge of the puck is soft (around the corner), but I just scrape that off back into my green mill and repress with the next batch. Once dry (overnight in a dehydrator), they sound like a ceramic disk when tapped with something metal.
If you didnt spill a large amount of powder, something is definitly amiss! 1.5 oz converts to 650+ grains of powder (by weight). Plus, you added water which should have increased the final weight even more! You should have seen that somewhere!
Guns have only two enemies: rust and politicians!
Yeah, it seemed like it acted like a bit too dry, yet I still got a small amount of clear water from it; as opposed to the much larger amounts of thick black goo I got when it was wetter. I just checked them, though - even the ones that looked like they might have been a bit dry are all quite hard. When I was pressing them, I gave them extra pressure, to make up for the dryness. The dryer ones aren't as glassy smooth on the non-piston side as the wetter ones were, but they are all quite hard.
At first, when I was getting more goo from it, I used my finger to scrape up the goo and put it back into the mixture. Later on, I was getting less goo and getting tired of the process (press puck, clean up goo, press out piston, clean packed mix from piston and cylinder, go remove the galling from piston and cylinder, etc), so I just wiped off anything coming out with a paper towel and threw it in the trash. For the last couple pucks, I went back to putting a thin layer of anti-seize on the piston wall, and that seemed to help with preventing galling.
I wonder if temperatures have anything to do with all this. It's still below freezing here, especially at night. In fact, it's SNOWING right now!
Mine I got from him is aluminum. I do set the die on a piece of PTFE on the non piston side to try and seal it. My pucks come out slick and shiny everywhere except the corners. Id be leery of using neversieze for fear of powder contamination. Never had an issue with my die trying to sieze up. Not sure what the clearances between the barrel and piston are, compared to yours, though.
How did you go about mixing the water in? The little bit of water (a couple tiny drops) that comes out when I press is almost black, but the consistancy of plain water.
Guns have only two enemies: rust and politicians!
I used the anti-seize sparingly and only on the piston walls, so it should not be making any contact with the puck
I just poured a small amount of distilled water in from a bottle, mixed with gloved hands until fully dispersed, then added a bit more & repeated until it seemed the moisture had gotten to all of it. I think another time it might be better to under-water, then let it sit a day or 2 covered, to let the water disperse that way, rather than trying to do it all at once.
Perhaps next time I should put the die onto a piece of plastic (I have PVC boards), too. I was using a little 4" square of sheet aluminum to set between the bottom of the die and the press base.
Every time I pressed mine I used 4% by weight distilled water and had just a slight amount of seepage of water. One could always use less say 3 or 3.5%?
I second the spritzer bottle. I use 91% alcohol in mine.
swamp
Very helpful advice there, swamp & indian joe - I will do it that way next time
Well, I made some more grinding media. I have a full tub full so I figure I now have enough, as I can fill each of the 2 tubs half-full of media:
https://i.imgur.com/SQrdaJ6l.jpg
About all I need to do now is assemble my 12-ton Harbor Freight press.
Steve
Man I love the way you roll those edges on those tubes.
Fly
I just started a batch and to my surprise the potassium nitrate has picked up a little moisture from the air. I'm milling it as usual but am wondering what will happen with the batch, will it mix properly or not. I'm planning to giving it a longer milling and will add some dextrin tomorrow before a final milling and then corning. Think the damp potassium nitrate will cause any problems?
I would say no, but that is just an educated guess. I cant see any reason a little moisture would effect it considering you will be adding more water to corn it (im assuming you dont press it into pucks).
Guns have only two enemies: rust and politicians!
The little bit of moisture didn't affect anything during the milling. Checked it and it looked good.
Eddie no need for a binder when Corning pressed powder.
Fly
Fly, I'm having trouble getting enough pressure with my press setup, the pucks are coming out soft. I'm going to try adding dextrin to get a better uniform grain size.
Ed how many ton press do you have.
Fly