I was unable to find any JPW in my area so decided to gamble and try Trewax instead... I've had excellent results with it. Trewax also contains carnuba.
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I was unable to find any JPW in my area so decided to gamble and try Trewax instead... I've had excellent results with it. Trewax also contains carnuba.
I whupped up a batch of Recluses recipe and admit that I had more than 10% mineral spirits but still had good results. I sized about 500 boolits and they just slid through the lee sizer. I was IMPRESSED! I havent had a chance to shoot any yet but am just itching to.
I too have some Alox 606-55.
I have read sticky's directions for making 45/45/10 alox/JPW/mineral spirits mix.
What proportions would I use with the 606-55 to get same 45/45/10 mix.
Any special directions for mixing this up.
I realize I could use the Lee Liquid Alox I also have on hand or get the XLOX for $10/quart plus shipping but I do have the 606-55 on hand already.
TIA
I confess up front that I didn't read all 9 pages of posts on this topic...(did read page 1 and page 9).
I would add my thank you to Recluse for a very informative and CLEAR write up of how to do "it". I will definitely be trying the "mix" for the lube, as the stickiness results in pocket lint on the first round of any mag I put there!
I have been shooting the tumble lube bullets for 15 or more years, and have had excellent results in 45acp, 45 Colt, 38 spl, and 40 S&W. I have had lousy luck with the 125 TLTC bullet in 9mm.
My 45 works perfectly with the 230 gr. TLRN, and they shoot fine (action pistol matches, mostly short range...). Why would I size the bullets? I should mention that I use a Lee Factory Crimp die in station five of my XL650, in place of the Dillon crimp die. That seems to me to take care of any sizing issues that might exist, and it saves a step...
I haven't tried sizing any of the TL bullets except in my failed attempts to make the 9mm work...what am I missing?
For what it's worth, I purchased a 16 oz. tin of JPW for $6.49 at Fred Meyer today. [smilie=w: Although Freddy's is a Northwest chain, they are now owned by Kroger stores, which is nationwide, I think. Therefore, it seems like a possibility for Kroger's to have the product. It was in the detergent aisle with some other floor care products. A friend of mine also said he found some at True Value, which may also be nationwide....might be worth checking with Ace Hardware or any other real hardware store...
My "True Value" hardware store has it.
Or they did 'til I bought it all.
Only reason I lube-size-lube is to eliminate the variable that any boolit might of a different size. By running them through the Lee pusher, I'm pretty much guaranteed that they will all be the same diameter. So, that eliminates one factor when I'm trying to eliminate causes/factors for a less-than-stellar performing load.
And for the record, in over thirty years, I've yet to get lead and 9mm to mix and play together nicely. I cast for 9mm and load just to plink or stay proficient at close range with.
When I need 9mm loads I can count on, I load with jacketed--and with very good results. But lead? Forget about it. [smilie=b:
:coffee:
Quoted from Recluse:
And for the record, in over thirty years, I've yet to get lead and 9mm to mix and play together nicely. I cast for 9mm and load just to plink or stay proficient at close range with.
When I need 9mm loads I can count on, I load with jacketed--and with very good results. But lead? Forget about it. [smilie=b:
:coffee:[/QUOTE]
I have at least two molds that make lead bullets that work in 9mm, but have had no luck with the tumble lube bullet. My guess is that a bullet that weighed somewhere above 140 grains would work just fine...alas, I am too cheap to pay them to do a custom mold to prove that it would work, especially since they should have done it already! :sad:
I have at least two molds that make lead bullets that work in 9mm, but have had no luck with the tumble lube bullet. My guess is that a bullet that weighed somewhere above 140 grains would work just fine...alas, I am too cheap to pay them to do a custom mold to prove that it would work, especially since they should have done it already! :sad:[/QUOTE]
So just run some .38's through your 9mm sizer. No worse than sizing bullets that drop "fat".
Having been less than 100% pleased with pure LLA for tumble lubing my bullets and having lurked about here and read through the first page of this thread I gathered up a can of JPW and bought a quart of XLOX and a can of Paint Thinner (because it was '100% mineral spirits' and I have heard the 'odorless' was not.)
So I bummed a pot from the MRS and scooped out the pound of JPW and turned the heat on as low as I could get it. Then when it was almost all melted I measured out 16 oz of XLOX and poured it in. It mixed right in no problem. splashed an ounce or two of MS into the measuring cup and washed it a bit and into the pot it went. Did this about 3 times trying to get all the snot out of my measuring cup. Turned off the heat and went on to other things. Well once it cooled back to room temp (about 68* outside on the deck) it was, ummm, well, not as thick as water. Dipped a bit onto some bullets and tumbled around and it just ran right off.
OK...some quick math in the head...C$%p.... I think I have about twice the MS I should have. No prob, heat up till steaming a bit, temp off. Cool down, no change. Heat, cool, no change. Forget it. Left the cover off the pot and went to bed. 12 hrs later checked on it and at about 64* it was like chocolate pudding. A little splash of MS and stir, stir , stir. Another little splash, One more brought it to melted chocolate and into the 1/2 gal plastic milk jug it went.
Back to my bullets, kept turning the pile on the wax paper to bring the liquid to the top until I finally just dumped them all back into the tumbling jug and let em sit for a few hours before tumbling again and then dumping out to dry on fresh sheet of wax paper to dry overnight.
So after my epic fail and semi-miraculous recovery I finally read through the entire thread and "DOH" cook of the JPW solvents and add XLOX at 1 to 1 to whats left.
Should I try to find another can of JPW and cook it down and add it to my brew? It's carried at my local ACE, but they only carry 1 can at a time?!? Or do you think I'm close enough for Gov't work?
Thanks, Doug.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/pict...231111&thumb=1
I feel everyone's pain regarding 9mm cast boolits and leading the barrel. I have attached a pic of the 124 gr lee tl 9mm boolits I've recently processed. I hope that they show up as this is my first attempt to attach a pic to a thread. I too had leading even after tumble lubing with lla/jpw, sizing and re-tumble lubing. After trying several different things and about to lose all my hair, I think I have run into something that works for me. I ended up making up a little heavier mix of lla/jpw and not adding any ms. My ratio is approx 60/40 lla/jpw. My boolits are cast from ww & are a 10 brinnell hardness using the lee lead hardness test tool. I tumble lubed the boolits and let them air dry under a fan for a couple hours. I then sized the boolits to .356 with lee's sizer and re-lubed the boolits to where you can see that I have a heavier application of the lube down in the bands of the boolit, kind of looks like I ran them thru a traditional sizer/lube press. If there's not enough lube down in the bands I simply add a little more lube and tumble 'em again. I then pour the lubed boolits onto wax paper, set them up on the base end and let them dry overnight under a fan. I have fired these boolits thru a glock 19 w/drop in storm lake barrel with excellent results -- used only a few strokes with a bronze brush w/solvent thru barrel and it was clean. I have chronographed this load and it is running an average velocity of 1020 fps and very accurate. Only problem is the boolits are a little tacky to touch but as long as it is working I'm afraid to mess with it any more. Hope this helps. :bigsmyl2:
I have a can of Butcher's Boston Polish. The label says there is carnuba in it. I also have simoniz car wax and Minwax finishing wax. There are no ingredients on these 2 cans. Does anyone know if they have carnuba in them?
Thanks
Try finding the respective manufacturer's web-sites and see if they post the Material Safety Data Sheets for their products. Many do. If they are posted, they probably won't provide exact measurements. For example, the MSDS for Johnsons Paste Wax lists general percentage ranges for Stoddard's solvent (AKA Mineral spirits or Paint Thinner) of 75-85%, Paraffin of 10-30% , and Carnauba of 5-10%.
I tried the mix, but I used Butchers Wax. It has carnuba---says so on the label.
It is soft. I don't know if Johnsons is soft or hard. The mix can be softened in a microwave or hot water, but soesn't seem to get very thin. I don't know what happened.
Any ideas---throw the Butchers Wax out and try some Johnsons in the same mix??? or what???
I know this is an older post but its a really helpful thread. Thanks for this, I really appreciate the photos and tips. I've been using the LLA for a little while and was never quite satisfied with results. I'm going to make some up today and try it on some TL 38 wadcutters.
mines returning to liquid in the heat localy. any advise?
cook it more?
So does mine. Use it like it is. You would have to heat it to liquid anyway. It will dry.
The first time I cooked it , it came out too thin.
The second time when it cooled it bacame a solid block.
The third time it was great!
A very late comment on a great post:
the JPW/LLA or just thinned LLA works well.
To minimize reclamation efforts to recover & recycle remaining lube on wax paper, I simply place bullets in a funnel with an exit tube smaler than bullet size, or larger one with awasher in the hole. ( Don't let the bullets plug flow...)
I flood the bullets in the funnel being lubricated and eliminate the submersion by simply draining the excess lube back into the origenal container with the use of another funnel.
After the lot drains for a moment, then stand on end per the normal process.
Normally there's not enough on the wax paper to recover, but as much lube on the slugs as any other method provides.
can the car wax New Finish be used instead of Johnson paste wax?
I found tubs of Johnson's Paste Wax at my local Home Depot for $5.68. If you go to HomeDepot.com, you can search the site and see if your 'local store' has any in stock via their 'find my local store' thingy.
I've heard from several casters who have experimented using Trewax in lieu of JPW (due to availability issues) and they've had very good success as well.
Trewax has a higher concentration of carnauba and paraffin according to its sheet, so less time would need to be spent cooking off the solvents. This, in turn, would affect how you measure out your ingredients.
I always measure my ingredients after the JPW has been cooked down, then put the mix together by volume. Because I live in a warmer climate, I have left out almost all of the mineral spirits for a "summer blend."
Suppose I could call it a 47.5/47.5/5 mix? :)
The only purpose of the mineral spirits is to make the LLA/JPW blend manageable for viscosity. Lot of our brother casters who live in the colder northern climates need that added viscosity.
:coffee:
Well, it's warm enough here in Tucson that I've so far left out the 'cooking off' part out all together. I figure leaving the lid off (and covered with a piece of window screen) for a day or two of monsoon weather might cook a good amount of solvent out of the can without the work/time/electicity. :D Of course, I can always cook it down if that doesn't work -- or just buy it done right form Glen when he gets it on the market. :D
I just looked up Trewax. I guess the clear paste wax is what you are referring to. I can't seem to access the ingredients but the description mentions carnauba so I may try it.
By the way, I just added "carnauba" to the spelling dictionary, since the word seems to show up here regularly.
John
W.TN
I just looked up Trewax. I guess the clear paste wax is what you are referring to. I can't seem to access the ingredients but the description mentions carnauba so I may try it.
Some are having trouble locating JPW. I found it at Home Depot. Or at least I found the shelf location. They said to check back in about a week. They should have some then.
By the way, I just added "carnauba" to the spelling dictionary, since the word seems to show up here regularly.
John
W.TN
Is that the first tumble? Look's kinda thin to me.
This has been a great read - gone thru all 10 pages. Thanks Recluse! Can't wait to give this a try. I have used straight Lee's alox and like a lot of folks, used to much. Seems it took forever, before solidify with out stickiness.
I wondering if anyone have used 'Bag Balm' for a substitue, until a supply of J P Wax is found?
What rancher/farmer, worth their salt, don't have a green, square container of Bag Balm laying around some where in their barns/stalls or in the kitchen?
I sure enjoy the humor.
Lonerider
Looks kinda thin and uneven to me, but I'm judging it by 100% LLA standards. Is that LLA or a paste wax mix?
I have found that I get a more uniform and even coating when using the Recluse 45/45/10 mix if I let them dry in the tumbling container and agitate them every couple of minutes. When I just dump them out onto a plastic sheet most of the lube runs off and the top surfaces appear almost completely bare.
What kind of lube are you using? It looks like it's not mixed well.
When you cook off the JPW and blend in the LLA and stir/mix thoroughly, you shouldn't have the dark spots (LLA) visible on the boolits. If you used straight LLA or a blend that is majority LLA, you have plenty on the boolits.
Good rule of thumb with tumble-lubing is "If you can see it the lube on the boolit, you've got plenty on it." MY rule of thumb is "If you can easily see the lube, you've used too much."
:coffee:
I use Recluse formula but leave out the MS. I cook the JPW quite a bit but not too hot. The batch I got was gray and slushy. I called Johnsons and told them that, they sent me a free can. Anyway I use it 50/50 and pour into two Lee alox containers I had. The mix gets like pudding. I just put the bottle. with the pour spout open, in the microwave for 45 seconds and it goes liquid. I shake it up and draw the letter W on top of 100 bullets in a butter tub. That gives me a lite coat that dries in 30 min. I then run them through the lee sizer and then give a second coat the same way. The bullets have a very smooth coating not chunky and very even and lite. If I am shooting hot loads I then put them through the lubrisizer for some white label lube.
Works great. Thanks Recluse and hope this helps some of you.
;>}
Thanks for the replies, everyone.
That was 50/50ish. I cooked a can of of JPW down to 1/5 of it's original volume (right in its own can) and then used half of that can with half of a bottle of Alox. It was still a little bit stick and didn't dry nearly as cleanly, evenly or firmly as I wanted, so I've added a bit more JPW and acquired/mixed in some mineral spirits as well for the next go around.
First batch loaded:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...AyMDYuanBn.jpg
Side by side with my typical D***** load:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...AyMDUuanBn.jpg
Has anyone used this wax?
http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/st...rid=googlebase
Yes, yes and yes.
But in that bar form, they are best used on/with buffing wheels.
White diamond is what is broadly used for polishing quality smoking pipe stems. The carnauba wax is a finish buff. Tripoly is used for soft metals and for polishing metals on a wheel.
I have used White diamond to bring back badly oxidized pipe stems to a rear new finish.