I agree the meat grinder would be ideal, but I don't think the girlfriend would like me running willow charcoal through the meat grinder attachment on her brand new Kitchenaide mixer. I'll be keeping a look out at the garage sales this spring.
Matt
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I agree the meat grinder would be ideal, but I don't think the girlfriend would like me running willow charcoal through the meat grinder attachment on her brand new Kitchenaide mixer. I'll be keeping a look out at the garage sales this spring.
Matt
Hey, if that Kitchenaid can't stand up to willow charcoal, you need to find out ASAP before it lets you (her) down at an inopportune time. :bigsmyl2:
PS: The "gear box" in the Kitchenaid has a neoprene gear that's supposed to be the first to break. Order one now and she may never find out about the charcoal.. :bigsmyl2:
If all of a sudden I stop posting on here, you'll know what happened. Just call the police and tell them to look in the meat grinder, she'll have fixed it and then run me through it to hide the evidence. :bigsmyl2:
I think that is why I like it here so much, we all have the same mind set, even if everyone else thinks I am a little crazy and obsessive :bigsmyl2:
There have been other threads on here about this very topic.
I've read just about all of them- just can't get around to actually doing it.
That will be changing very soon, I hope. :bigsmyl2:
I've got a book or two on this somewhere, along with flint knapping, blacksmithing, brain tanning, etc.
I'd like to think that I have gained a lot of "survival" knowledge from reading and doing things like this, and could really do most of it IF I had too- don't really want to HAVE to though, if you know what I mean. :lol:
I'm getting too old for finding out, but the way things are going these days, we just might get to test our skills regularly very soon. :rolleyes:
Just to add to the chatter; in 1974 I was working at Green River Rifle Works in Roosevelt Utah. Several of my friends were working out at the Green River Powder mill loading a truck with a just finished batch of powders ready to be shipped. This was about 5 - 6 miles from the rifle works. We felt the place shake and everyone knew instantly what happened. Everyone at the mill was lost. There was nothing left to bury. To this day no one knows what happend. Moral of the story: even at $25 per pound Alaska prices it's a good deal - - -
But you know - I still think I'd like to try making a little =)
Today, I was going through some boxes of stuff I had put away and found a copy of Army TM31-210 Improvised Munitions (from back in my Marine Security Guard training days)! Forgot I had it. :oops: I lost so much stuff several years ago when I was flooded, I can't remember what I have or don't have sometimes. :sad:
It has LOTS of different and VERY INTERESTING information in it on various concoctions. It has a very good "how-to" chapter on BP, as well.
I intend to peruse it further next week, as the chance presents itself. :mrgreen:
STATIC is probably what happened. From everything I have read about large manufacturing facilities of BP and their operations, that is what caused explosions 99% of the time.
The above scenerio occured around the time OSHA was created, IIRC. Knowing how they "regulate" things now, I wonder what safety precautions were utilized back then without that agencies guidelines? Not trying to place blame on anyone, but I would suspect someone short cut a "standard" practice.
That might be part of the reason federal regulations make you store it in such small batches. But that doesn't explain why the companies that transport it have issues with it (other than making more money in charging fees for transporting it)- I've never heard of a BIG BROWN truck circling the moon yet.
This is what I found on another ML website-
(d) Except for the purposes of subsections (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), (i), and (j) of section 844 of this title, "explosives" means any chemical compound mixture, or device, the primary or common purpose of which is to function by explosion- the term includes, but is not limited to, dynamite and other high explosives, black powder, pellet powder, initiating explosives, detonators, safety fuses, squibs, detonating cord, igniter cord, and igniters.
(h) "Manufacturer" means any person engaged in the business of manufacturing explosive materials for purposes of sale of distribution or for his own use.
(n) "Distribute" means sell, issue, give, transfer, or otherwise dispose of.
Here is the full law:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....1.3.5&idno=27
The part that applies here:
(a) General. Except for the provisions of §§555.180 and 555.181, this part does not apply to:
(4) Small arms ammunition and components of small arms ammunition.
Here is 555.180:
(a) No person shall manufacture any plastic explosive that does not contain a detection agent.
Also:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5400-7.pdf
In part:
16. Is small arms ammunition subject to regulation under Federal explosives laws?
No. The law specifically exempts small arms ammunition and components thereof.
37. When is a manufacturer’s license required?
....... Persons who manufacture explosives for their personal, non-business use are not required to have a manufacturer’s license.
Thank you perotter for adding more to clarify the "legalese" injected into the discussion, and posting a link for all to read for further and ensure compliance with the intent of the law. 8-)
If someone is going to quote LAWS, I think you should quote all of it, and not just pieces of it, to avoid confusion and misunderstanding. Or, you can FULLY DISCLOSE YOUR SOURCE, by providing a link for READING the whole thing to ensure no mistunderstanding and get full intent, then quote (as perotter did). :coffeecom "Another ML site" is not good enough for me- the CFR site IS.
Interpretation is sometimes critical- and perotter did the right things by pursuing further clarification from the BATFE and DEA in his area, to ensure compliance and avoid unintentional legal problems. :-?
Partial quotation of law is like quoting from the Bible. Pieces taken out of context don't always mean what you are attempting to equate them to without the full content, and can cause division and derision. The Bible says "Prove all things."- good advice in more than just religion. :-D
Don't pick out the piece "Thou shalt not." and stop there, without providing the why and wherefores, or the exceptions to the rules. :veryconfu
Good call, thanks for posting the 'rules'. I felt that i was in the clear (even though would continue to make my own regardless) based on what I have heard others say but that really isnt solid proof. So thank you for doing the legwork for the rest of us.
Mike
Most people that post "rules" are well intentioned but they typically conduct their research from the point of view of "prove my opinion is correct". Want to start a real argument, start discussing the ins & outs of firearm suppressors. People will come flying out of the woodwork to demand you stop discussing one of the "forbidden knowledge" topics. Here in the Peoples Republic, 8 out of 10 people will INSIST switchblade knives are illegal. To bad it isn't true.
Let the war begin... :bigsmyl2:
I pruned some apple trees yesterday, and there were some pretty nice pieces laying around. I am going to strip the bark off them tomorrow and let them dry out a little, before I attempt to make some apple wood charcoal. The grain is pretty dense, and looks like a good candidate for a BP component.
I haven't got to pruning the black willow trees yet. Winter weather has finally given way, and I am busy playing catch up on more pressing spring needs before it turns nasty again (you know it will at least two more times before spring officially arrives). It ain't like they are going to sprout legs and walk away, huh? :lol:
Yep, day before yesterday it was wet and dreary, today EVERYTHING is budding or blooming... Maybe I overslept. :-(
One thing that I've seen come up on threads of this nature, is that it is illegal to talk or write about this topic. That is only true in the following when there is intent of committing a crime:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5400-7.pdf
Page 5 I think.
"(A) to teach or demonstrate the making or use of an explosive, a destructive device, or a weapon of mass destruction, or to distribute by any means information pertaining to, in whole or in part, the manufacture or use of an explosive, destructive device, or weapon of mass destruction, with the intent that the teaching, demonstration, or information be used for, or in furtherance of, an activity that [B]constitutes a Federal crime of violence[/B]; or
(B) to teach or demonstrate to any person the making or use of an explosive, a destructive device, or a weapon of mass destruction, or to distribute to any person, by any means, information pertaining to, in whole or in part, the manufacture or use of an explosive, destructive device, or weapon of mass destruction, knowing that such person intends to use the teaching, demonstration, or information for, or in furtherance of, an activity that constitutes a Federal crime of violence."
Bold I added.
My 16 year old son has been making his own BP for over a year now and he makes some really good stuff. I buy him the Saltpeter from Tractor Supple. It's sold as stump remover, but it's pure SP that needs to be finely ground. That is accomplished in a coffee/spice mill until it has the consistency of confectioner's sugar. Then some hardwood charcoal is ground the same way. We could ude the charcoaling in a can method for making good charcoal, but I just get my charcoal out of the fireplace and that has been working well for small amounts. The sulfur comes from the local drug store. Blend well and use a little bit of water to get granules of BP. Sift through a garden sifter to get nearly uniform sized BP grains. If I want lots of smoke, and who doesn't, I use more sulfur. You can actually make BP without sulfur and it is nearly smokeless. The only problem is that this raises the flashpoint of the BP to the point that you could get a few hangfires. You can't use the sulfurless powder as flashpan powder cause you need a really low flashpoint. Anyway. Making BP is fun and really really easy. Cheap too. For regular smokey BP I use , by volume, 2 parts SP, 1 part charcoal, 1/2 part sulfur.
This has been an interesting thread. I remember as a kid, me and my buddies would go to Drug Fair and buy bottles of Potasium Nitrate and Sulfer flower then, crush up Kingsford Charcoal and even though it was primitive, it was fun. We also learned on Hawaii Five O, how to make fuses out of the magnesium hair in the old camera flash bulbs and the mercury switches in furnace thermostats. I guess the Feds invented video games to stop kids from doing this stuff. 8-)
cavalrymedic,
Why not measure the ingredients by weight rather than volume? I'm thinking that the grind and fluffiness would make a difference just like using sifted flour vs packed flour, same volume but way different weight.
the volume seems to work pretty well. Once the stuff is all ground up, we just use a small plastic kitchen measuring cup. No weighing required. It turns out that with BP the exact mixture isn't really crucial. A little more SP, or a little less, very little difference.
I'm going to try this. I made some "dextrin" from cornstarch in a skillet last night( amid a hail of questions concerning why I was sauteing cornstarch) from a procedure I got off the net. When should I add this if I choose to try it? Shoot straight T-Bird
I finally got all the bark off the apple wood- lot more of it than what I thought, and a little more time consuming. It didn't strip off as easily as I thought it would, being from a dormant tree. I cut it into shorter pieces that would fit into my retort, and make it easier to set in the house and strip them (raining and snowing over the weekend- perfect weather for this project).
Something I noticed while stripping- there was a light build up of "tar" on my knife that I used in stripping and scraping. I would venture to say that "tar" would help add to the charcoals effectiveness over other types of wood.
Going to go trim the willow now, so I can see if that same condition exists in lesser or greater quantity. Probably the natural sugar factor.
T-bird,
I dont know where in the manufacturing would be the ideal time to add the dextrin. I havent tried it yet so it looks like you are gonna be the one to report on it ;) My guess would be after you have precipitated out the KNO3 and maybe after you have drained off some of the liquid. It does have to be wet otherwise it wont work. Please let us know how it works out.
Charlie,
I have read that the softer woods are better for making BP charcoal but am interested in your efforts with apple wood anyway. So please let us know how it goes, I think I posted about a guy that I read about somewhere that swore by using grass to make his (I bet hay/straw would work).
Mike
Just add 5% dextrin by weight in when you ball mill.I use gum arobic instead, for you only
need 2%.Use boiling hot water when you dampen & it really helps in harder grains.
Fly
It has been at least 50+ years since I made my last BP but I'm getting kind of interested in trying some in BPCR just for grins and giggles. Been eyeballing for some willow but haven't seen much that is easy to get to.
Bob
I cut some of the willow today, and a few other types for comparison, while pruning the trees along my creek bank today. It was a really nice day to be outside (partly cloudy, mid 50's & breezy), and this project provided incentive to to finish the pruning work I started two weeks or more ago. :smile:
The willow seemed to be more pithy under the bark, and lighter wood, but grain is not open, and not much smell; I need bigger pieces for better comparisons, I think.
Some of the other tree sample had little to no pith under the bark and are heavier, and even smell green. Sap is starting to run in some of the trees now, too. Cut some low thumb size limbs off a couple of trees and water just poured for a little while; the higher ones didn't.
I have some sumac and large grape vines nearby- they are my next target! Looks like I am going to have several small batches whenever I get around to making test charcoal. :groner: :lol:
I think I am going to try to locate a coffee grinder to grind my charcoal, or a used bullet chopper or similar appliance to make it like flour, I hope. :wink:
I am going to add the dextrin in with the sulfur/charcoal, will mix it well, then add it to the KNO3 solution. I am the family cook and I thicken alot of sauces with cornstarch(mostly asian), so I know cornstarch/water mixtures change alot at the boiling point. Didn't know how this impacted the "project" Not going to be tomorrow, but when I get some "alone time". Will report back. Shoot Straight, T-Bird
T-Bird you MUST ball mill your powder or it won't perform well at all.Your meal powder must
be as fine as baby powder, before you granulate it.
Fly
When it is made with grass or straw it is call brown powder or cocoa powder. Rye straw was the preferred base. The max amount of sulfur was 5%. Some had no sulfur in them. For example - Germany 80% KNO3 & 20% rye charcoal & France 78% KNO3, 19% rye charcoal & 3% sulfur. The powder was denser than normal black powder & burned slower.
Many of the modern military's back in the day used them for their rifled artillery. Including the US Navy. They weren't grained like black powder, but formed into perforated shapes. Hexagon, Octagon, etc.
The above is based on what is in Tenny Davis's book.
It is reported to be more sensitive to friction than BP. There were some deadly accidents with it during the Spanish American War.
Fly, Atom73 isn't ball milling his powder. He says his works well T-Bird
What is the name of the Tenny Davis book? Sounds like one reference I need to have and read.
Seems odd that the lighter wood is the prefered, but grass/straw is too light. Works, but must not have enough carbon in it for the process. Reversing that, you would think denser wood would be more optimal.
Grass/straw sure would be easier to make charcoal out of- no bark stripping or grinding would remove a lot of time. That stuff would go to powder probably just by shaking the retort after being fired.
YES, I neglected that aspect in my commentary.
We have not seen any results from that side of the equation, yet.
It is my intention to make and use mine for shooting, so eventually I will get there. ::bigsmyl2:
But since we are starting from somewhere in the 1700's technology (maybe), how long will it take to get up to late 1800's quality?
Video games? We had super-fun activities like hauling hay or clearing dead-wood from the orchards... :groner:
Long ago we occasionally made our own fireworks but, when I was a kid, it was easier to just go down to the hardware store and buy dynamite and electric caps. [smilie=w:
Well he is using what is called the CIA method to making BP.I have never made
it that way.None of the manufactures make it that way.
I'm not saying it is bad, for I never made mind like that, as most people don't.
But if you may, try & see what you think.Report back, for I would like to know
from another making powder with the CIA method.
Fly:bigsmyl2:
Well, I was going by what he said in his 1st post it "performed really well" when he used it in his gun. Since he is a muzzleloader shooter I assumed that "really well" would mean something more than it just went BANG. And fly-I''ll play-what does CIA stand for? I know you're dying to tell me. Shoot Straight T-Bird