The rear sight looks like it held up well :)
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The rear sight looks like it held up well :)
For me, the least expensive and surest way to avoid a double charge is to use bulky powders. For example, 700-x vs Bullseye. Virtually the same speed but a double of 700-x will overflow the case. Of course I always visually inspect before seating boolits, as much to prevent bloopers as anything else. If a double charge will fill or overflow a case, it's easy enough to spot.
"If someone wants to be a competitive pistol shooter (or get good at it) it cannot be done with with SS press using loading blocks."
My Dad was a real force to be reckoned with on the Bullseye pistol circuit in the 70s and 80s shooting Colt Gold Cups and had quite a few state level champion trophies to show for it in S.C. Did this while teaching history at the college level and taking care of a family of five kids. He never used anything but a single stage, and is the only guy I know who honestly wore out .45 ACP dies. Progressive presses are recipes for disaster and I'll never use one, the mass production spray and pray crowd probably likes them, but for anybody that desires quality ammo, nope.
Well a progressive press can to turn out quality ammo and just as safely as a single stage , have seen enough threads on here alone about a oops using single stage presses , so to some progressive presses may be a recipe for disaster to others just another day reloading safely , no one shoe fits all and no one press does it all , I use Dillon SDB for pistol ammo revolver and semi auto , I use single stages for rifle , I want a single stage for some things , a true progressive press with auto advance for some other things and I also use a Lee classic cast turret , have more then one single stage press for more then one job .
This whole blame it on the press is off in the bush , operator error , distractions or a break in standard routine , other issues as in misreading a scale or scale set wrong , bridging of powder and failure to see it can be a issue with any reloading style , attention to detail and knowing how to use your equipment along with knowing what powders may bridge , or measures prone to it or to erratic drops of powder , whatever floats your boat as your mileage may vary as to needs wants or your ability to use safely , it is in your hands .
:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost: it is all about paying attention to details.Quote:
Originally Posted by FLINTNFIRE
Bullseye shooting is not high volume shooting when compared to steel plate, USPSA or practical competition. I’ve shot them all. Apparently you have never shot with the “spray and pray” crowd. Some of them dispense 4-5 rounds per second with all alpha zone hits.Quote:
Originally Posted by richhodg66
Any press can be a recipe for disaster without adequate attention. The idea that a progressive cannot produce quality ammunition is incorrect but since you have not and never will use one you are making an assumption based on conjecture. I’ve loaded “precision” .223 on my Rock Chucker and volume .223 on my 650. Any difference is in my trigger pulling as both shoot under 1/2” at 100.
I can’t think of any press on which it’s more difficult to double charge than the SDB. Super safe press!Quote:
Originally Posted by FLINTNFIRE
I think a lot of the kabooms on auto pistols (especially 45acp) is from bullet set back when the round hits the ramp. The 45acp is difficult to double charge unless you are loading small charges of a fast powder. I tend to use powders that are bulky enough to overflow or don't leave enough room to fit a bullet if double charged.
And why would that be??????????? When you load on a single stage you need to understand and pay attention to what you are doing at each stage. When you load on a progressive you need to understand and pay attention to what you have doing at each station? How is that any different? If you understand and pay attention to what you are doing you can do it safely on either, however, if you don't understand or pay attention to what you are doing what you are doing than neither are safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by richhodg66
Of the blown guns I am aware of more than half been done with single stage presses.
I may be slow, but I figure if you just bare bones, size/deprime, reprime, expand, throw powder, seat/crimp, you might be able to do an honest 100-150 an hour on a single stage, but your elbows and hands are going to feel it. If you use a Lee expander die with a powder dispenser on top, you might be able to make up a little time, and a shell kicker could save some time sizing brass, neither of which I imagine were regular tools in the 70's. It can be done on a single stage, but you practically live at the thing. I really doubt your dad was shooting more than a couple hundred a week at best. That's plenty of rounds, and as a person who tried to load that many on a single stage, I say with experience that it is no fun at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by richhodg66
Ditto my late father-in-law, who was an Ohio state champion pistol shooter in the 1960s. AFAIK progressive loaders didn't even exist, except in the ammo factories.Quote:
Originally Posted by richhodg66
As for me, anybody who loudly claims on the Internet to produce match grade ammunition on a progressive loader will please stay at least five bays away from me at the range.
I happen to have had a career in statistical process control gaging, (automotive). Any volume process thus managed, such as the big ammo mfgrs. do it, has points along the line where characteristics are measured and recorded so that the process can be known to be operating correctly all the time at every station. Consumer grade progressives do not do this AT ALL. (No, a "powder check" station does not qualify, since it does not actually measure the amount of powder in the case.)
I've been reloading pistol on a SDB for 25 years or so. I do make a point of seeing the powder in the case, but have never seen a double charged case.
Accuracy is relative, isn't it? Match grade ammo is made on progressives by everybody in the action pistol sports. You do that when you shoot thirty to fifty thousand rounds a year. Of course, the max scoring zone on the targets is usually a 6"x11" rectangle shot mostly at ranges under 20 yards.
Aw, be fair, Conditor! It's not the fantastic plastic's fault that somebody was picking his nose when reloading!
I reloaded on a single stage press in the 70's , batch reloading , handle every brass multiple times , shooting 38 special and 357 magnum and then by the 80's 44 magnum , what a pain , for the rifles at least it was not to bad , loading a lot less for sighting in some practice and for hunting .
As to the progressive press bashers your measure throws volume not weight or you weigh each and every charge , if so my hat is off to you and your due diligence .
If you have a good measure and you check it consistently you can make very good ammo with a very small weight difference and consistent rhythm and method of doing each throw as that makes it consistent , as to progressive presses I believe Stars were available in the 30's at least well before the 60's , but I really do not know , Truth is if you do your part casting , loading and shooting the progressive press turns out consistent ammo , but you stay at least 10 bays or states away from me as I do not need your ego around me when I am enjoying myself and each perfect weighed charge I hope as the exact same crimp to the 1/10 grain of pressure and the same length and I do hope it all shows in your perfect world .
I tend to collect press so I basically can load on anything I want and I have compared them. That includes Forster Co-Ax, RCBS A2's, A4's, Rockchuckers, CH Champion Heavyweight, Herter's, Lyman's and Redding's. With only minor mods and proper die selection my Dillions with produce ammo equal to the best of my many single station press.Quote:
Originally Posted by uscra112
Most of my precision rifle is loaded on a Dillon 650 or a Dillon 1050. Ammo loaded on either will consistently produce 3/8" MOA 10 shoot groups at 300 yards and hold a 5 inch waterline at a 1,000 yards.
Considering National Champions such as David Tubb, John Whidden and most if not all of the US Palma team uses progressive's the claim progressive's can't produce match grain ammo is more than a little myopic.
https://www.accurateshooter.com/guns...ek/gunweek059/
https://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...0-650.3986043/
As to your last statement the home reload has the ability to inspect single stations or progressives the same and that is based on their skills and available tools. Make zero difference as to the type of press.
Statistics and reloading have a lot in common. Quality in quality out - junk in junk out.
What large factories like Federal does is irrelevant to the home loader on inspection/quality of single station verse progressive. The large ammo manufacture powder charges are volume dropped and they are not dropped by weight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_O9gSKFguU
I have read many double charge accounts as told by the reloader that caused them. Invariably they happened to a pistol shooter with a progressive press. The powder checker dies and lockout dies are direct evidence of the need to prevent double charges. Just because you bought a powder checker die does not mean everyone did.If you run a 550 without a powder checker it is easy to actuate the original design powder measure twicw without indexing the press.
And the 550 is a manual advance , and that if not paying strict attention can be a problem , why I feel no need for a progressive press with no auto advance . my 2 cents
Friend had a double charge once.
I was on the bench next to him when he fired it.
He fell back and landed on the ground.
I jumped to him to see if he was OK.
Kind of in shock. But he was fine.
Seems when he was reloading, he had a phone call.
Double charge.
We laugh about it from time to time.
I keep on telling him.........
"At least you didn't let go of the rifle"
Modern Sharps repo in 45/70.
Smokeless powder.
Forget what powder, but he sometimes loads hot.
This thread demonstrates why some experienced reloaders should not be mentors.
Post 74 by M-Tecs should be read by every person considering getting a progressive press.