Idiot in charge? You give him far too much credit.
Rick
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Talked to my brother in the KCMO area this morning. His Propane supplier is retailing @ close to $5/gal.
That's close but not quite what he said in a 2008 campaign speech.
Looking straight into a TV camera he said:
(Direct quote of obummer) By necessity your "ENERGY" rates will have to skyrocket.
Heard it myself in a live broadcast and the entire news media did ignore it completely. Even Fox News barely gave it lip service. Nobody asked him "by what necessity"? or "by who's necessity"? or even "why would that be necessary"?
Guess what folks . . . Your energy rates are skyrocketing.
Energy isn't just what heats your house or goes in your gas tank, it's EVERYTHING from turning on the lights, growing your food and everything else in your life from the clothes you wear and anything that's manufactured and transported to or for you.
Why? Simple, the more your concentrating on trying to survive the less attention your paying to what is happening to your freedoms. ALL of your freedoms across the board.
Rick
The home I am in was built by my Dad over 74 years ago. There was a wood/coal fire kitchen stove and a fireplace. When I was about 5, Dad and I installed a Montgomery Ward coal/wood fired furnace. About the time I went off to school, Dad installed an oil fired hot water boiler. After replacing the boiler once and the second reaching it's last legs, I put in a Nat Gas tankless water for heat and another for hot water. Each transition was an effort to get better heat with less expense or labor.
Well I'm back to burning wood in the old Montgomery Ward furnace, to help with the expensive gas bill.
You would think that in my 72 years, the latest technology would have improved over what was the most common in the 50s. The sq ft of the home is more than double and it is mostly insulated. That old furnace is able to keep up with the ten degree temps. We have warm floors and a heated basement, that the 6 grand modern heating system just couldn't provide, and it's cheaper too.
MT Gianni'd points are very good. Many times, short term shortages are
the cost of short term price increases, and we will have to wait to see
how quickly the supply of propane bounces back so that the prices
can moderate. The long term supply issue is questionable, with a
lot of pressure being brought to prevent more supply from coming to
market. I had bought a large, multi-year quantity of propane a few years
ago at about $1.69, IIRC, and finally ran thru it this fall. I filled my
tank a month ago for a bit under $3, I forget exactly. Hoping to get
a better price in the spring or summer and again buy a bunch ahead
if the price is good.
MT Gianni ended his excellent post with:
"the infrastructure is not able to handle an extended cold swing"
this is largely because it is darned near impossible to build a new pipeline for anything related to
energy or to build a new refinery. I think I read that the last new refinery in the USA was built
40 years ago, environazis have made it essentially impossible to get permits to build a new
one since then. Someone in the industry please correct this if needed, I have not looked up
a source on this one in the last 10 years, so it many be incorrect.
All carefully planned to make oil, gas, propane and electricity from them MASSIVELY more
expensive - as the President said himself.
The underlying reason is that wind, solar and such are not economically competitive, so nobody
wants them. Solution? Make all the conventional fossil fuel sources a lot more expensive
by preventing leasing in the Gulf, failing to give drilling permits on existing leases, stopping
the pipeline from Canada, shutting down coal fired power plants, prevention new refineries
from being built, and trying their darndest to stop fracking, and many other things.
All part of a plan, none of it is accidental. By the way - do you know who is funding most of
the anti-fracking efforts? The middle easter oil barons. They don't want us getting to our own
oil and gas and lowering the amount we buy from them.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/mich...eatens-any-oil
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/anti...habi-oil-money
The next time someone is telling you about how bad fracking is - ask them
if they are funded by the Saudis or by Abu Dhabi?
A large part of the reason that folks like cali4088 can't wrap their minds around this is that they
get all their news from the alphabet TV talking heads on ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC and PBS. These
folks are NOT reporting this - so it can't be true, right? Or maybe they have an agenda and
don't WANT you to know about it. I would encourage those that think this is all "crazy talk" to
do some research and see what they come up with. The facts are out there if you dig a bit.
A good old Democrat Senator from NY once said, "You are entitled to your own opinion, but you
are not entitled to your own facts." The facts are what they are, and everyone can develop
their own opinions based on those facts. No need at all for any acrimony, just a discussion
amongst friends about an issue which directly affects the pocketbooks of many of us - me
included.
I have given up on the alphabet networks and spend time on the web looking for information from
different sources. A lot of good news still comes out of the UK if you ignore BBC, which is just
like MSNBC, only with an accent. I also ask subject matter experts about larger and longer
term trends, just trying to understand the world when the old news sources are not doing their
jobs.
Bill
3.05 cash in grygla mn over 200 gallons
$2.05 here in November. But the past 2 weeks they have not delivered . I called 2x and now we are at 12% today. Thursday I was told they are 7 to 10 days out on delivery. I mentioned what happen to the call I made last week when I was at 25%? Why aren't you delivering every 45 days give or take like you use to?
His reply: I'll tell them you're at 15%
20# tank is closer to $4.00 per gallon.
Over on the REZ $2.00 and change
Heating propane is not the industry driver. Propane is used in plastics manufacturing. Last year when my delivers stop coming, I was told they didn't know if another delivery was going to come this way since the pipeline was switched over to butane. Next house I'll have a 1,000 gallon tank or maybe 2 or 3 500 gallon tanks. AND a coal stove.
I read Atlas Shrugged the first time when I was eleven, and have understood exactly what has been happening and why ever since. BTW, that book was written by a woman who survived the Russian Revolution. Some of you would do well to research history instead of pretending that it is not repeating itself right now, in our country. There is evil running amok and destroying our country, and it's name isn't "CO2 emissions".
Gear
Here in southwest Michigan we use less than 400 gallons of propane a year, water heater, stove and furnace are all propane, however we heat with a woodstove. My furnace has not used a single ounce of propane in the last 6 years!!!!! We have the gas company fill us in May or June, usually get the best prices at that time of the year. My wife was talking with a few of her friends, one just paid $4.50/gal, and was limited to 100 gallons. She will be needing more in just about 3 weeks, I hope the price settles down before then.
Here in ND. there is no reason for high prices thousands of oil wells and some of them burn off 1.5 million cubic feet a day no way or place for them to ship it I paid 2.30 a gallon last week.
My buddy in Shirley MA just paid $2.79.
He said he was lucky to get it because of the shortage.
Shortage my rear! They dealers buyers speculated and purchased short if they are claiming a shortage. My deliveries use to be every 4 to 6 weeks 100 to 140 gallons. I've not seen those guys since end of October.
With all the fracking and gas wells in production we should be swimming in propane and LNG. We'll have to remember this when the frackers come around asking for support to drill with the veiled promise of more gas at cheaper prices.
Atlas Shrugged was written by Ayn Rand
Now I could be wrong, after all I was once before but propane isn't from fracking or drilling. It's a byproduct of refining gasoline.
Rick
All true.
I work in the natural gas biz. The employer started out heavy in the intrastate pipeline biz and has several mid-stream plants that extract the heavy stuff from the gas streams as they come out of the ground. They're building (or almost finished) another plant.
BTW, natural gas prices climbed a big chunk under Al Gore's Polar Vortex. I spent a bad couple of days trying to get another 3000 horsepower of compression going at one of my stations because we're shoving gas north to you Yankees as fast as we can.
dale in Louisiana
Here's what looks to be a useful calculator for comparing the prices of the various heating energy choices:
http://woodpellets4me.com/pellets-calculator.html
Kind of makes me glad that I have natural gas to my house. Apparently half the cost of heating (or smelting wheelweights) than propane.
Dale, what are you using to get that kind of HP-3600 Cats or MAK engines?
I work in the propane industry. It is no fun what we're going through. Every call to my office folks are upset or mad. Poor people are struggling to heat their Homes. The distribution system will not keep up with demand. Along with staffing trucks etc that played to mild winters. I could see this coming for years and years. Proof my personal home needs a 500 tank. I have had a 1000 tank knowing this would happen. My advice ? Simple pre buy in the summer even if it seems high. Have the largest storage at home you can. Just like putting wood up. You need to be ready for this. I see more ahead with the way things are. Mike
These are Cooper-Bessemer LSV's I work on twenty-six stations including two offshore platforms in Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi, Arkansas and Tennessee. We have a lot of 'big iron' out there, mostly reciprocating engines, a few gas turbines and a few electrics. Me being the electrical guy, I like my electrics. I have three, a 7,000 and two 9,000's, and I've installed some 15 and 22,500 horse electrics.
dale in Louisiana
(sometimes. this week it was Mississippi)
Propane is stripped from natural gas production.