Actually, all that you all have been discussing is the "basics" to cast a boolit that is actually worth trying to get a really decent repeatable group out of. Very little past that has been discussed on the site.
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Sorry if I offended any of you guys. I personally think you are the heart and soul of the best and my favorite site on the internet. I just wanted to point out that one does not have to get all this technical to cast boolits nor do they need lots of equipment. I am not anywhere as experienced as probably any of you. I do have a technical background but I have no interest in high performance, accuracy, effectiveness or even self defense loads. I have found casting boolits to be a fun little hobby that can be done with some cheap stuff. I do think equipment is often over emphasized but I know lots of people love gadgets. I spent a career trying to simplify large industrial facilities and that is part of my personality. I even know what galena and think dam few of you ever cast with it unless you refined it ...........a lot.
It's not the equipment you have, it's how ya use it.
You have no interest in accuracy?
You have no interest in effectiveness?
No interest in self defence (and in the same vein "hunting") loads?
You do know that firecrackers are a cheaper way to make something go bang right?
BOOYAHH! And that's what I figured out today.
After an hour of casting and keeping the mold on the "hot plate" (actually I have a little mini-stove that I use, but it gets "really hot"; I put a new battery in my Ratech today only to find out it is trashed, so I still don't know the exact mold temp) and stilll having wrinkles, I finally figured out I needed to adjust the flow down a little bit and this helped a lot.
I did manage to cast about 300 nice boolits, ever-so-slightly frosty. I'm not going to tell you how many I threw back in the pot.
I also watched the pot heat up a lot closer than I have been. Using COWW ingots today rather than the range scrap ingots I had been previously using, the RCBS (not Lyman, doh! Getting old I guess) thermometer showed about 550* when they started melting. I tried running it at about "750*" for the said hour or so after that but still ended up cranking it up a bit over "900". Once I figured out the spout deal, I tried turning back down and still was getting dribbly pour and rounded bases so I turned it back up a little.
#1. I need another thermometer, at least to "check" mine.
#2. I need to get a new Ratech and/or get the mold temp probe setup from NOE (I went ahead and had my mold drilled just in case).
#3. NOE HP mold does not fit very well under the Lee 420. Could not use an ingot mold to catch the drips and they would frequently impede the movement of the mold during pour
All-in-all, a successful casting session. I kept this thread in mind and I think I am headed in the right direction.
https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/...32903595_o.jpg
Try adjusting the valve to open more with cooler alloy. COWW usually melt around 600 F or so unless you've added some tin, then it drops a bit. Also, try casting FASTER. The hot plate/oven/preheat concept is just to get the mould going faster, the hot metal you pour in every few seconds is how you keep it hot. If the mould isn't staying hot enough, increase your speed.
Think four complete casting cycles per minute and 725F alloy. Going over 750 defeats the benefit of tin in the mix (for casting purposes) and the surface tension of the melt actually becomes stronger at that point.
The middle parts of your boolits exhibit exactly what I like to see in my own boolits (because I find it easier to get good fillout that way), a very light "frost" appearance. This means that part of the mould was up to a good casting temperature, some who prefer shiny boolits or slightly fatter boolits might say TOO hot. I notice a pour wrinkle on the HP nose and a pretty bright sheen near most of the tips, indicating that part of the mould was cooler than the middle and also indicating your pace is too slow to keep the HP pin warm enough, even with (I presume) 900 degree alloy. Same for the bases. Remember, it's all about MOULD TEMPERATURE, which means if the mould is too cold, cast FASTER. This is not meant as negative criticism, just pointing out how to give yourself clues to observing temperature differences in the mould just by observing the boolit's appearance "on the fly" as you are casting them. All shiny, all frosty, no matter as long as you like them and can get them formed fully.
Now, go shoot some of those things! I got a handful of them myself yesterday from another member and I'm going to be slinging them through a single-shot .30-30 hopefully tomorrow....
Gear
Having your mold up to a correct temp consistently via use of a mold heater in your casting cycle will remove the need to cast frantically. It will allow frosting (or not, as you desire) at almost any lead temperature irregardless. This though 700 to 750 seems to werk best. It will further keep the hollow point pin, and the nose of the mold and cavity - at that same temp as the reas of the mold. One can approach the "keep 'em all" situation in casting by this technique. But it isn't a high volume way to go.
Goodsteel, I love to plink.
If anyone wants a good cheap way to precisely check a thermometer, thermocouple or any other temperature reading device, get a brand new Lee 4 pound pot and some pure tin. The melting temp of PURE tin is 449.5 °F. As long as the tin is pure this melting point does not vary and is a widely accepted primary temperature standard.
I adjust the temperature of my alloy to best suit my mold.
Old-time casters understand what I just wrote perfectly, so let me explain to some of the newer folks.
I have different molds that have different requirements so far as heat is concerned and how well/how long they will hold a temp, etc. I've found the easiest way for me to get consistent boolits is to keep my alloy at consistent temps to facilitate the mold temperature staying consistent.
With my Lee ProIV pot, which I ladle cast from, I do not have a PID so instead I rely on my thermometer to tell me what the alloy is doing. The alloy temp will fluctuate depending on how full or how empty the pot is, which in turn will affect my mold temp (transfer of heat) which in turn affects the consistency of my boolits.
So, if I keep my alloy for my beloved Lee TL158SWC two-banger at a reading of around 775F, adjusting the temp if and as needed as I go through alloy, AND I keep my casting cadence and rhythm and timing consistent (thank you, BruceB!), then my mold stays at a consistent temp that allows it to produce superb boolits.
I have another mold for RN230 grain boolits that doesn't need as hot of an alloy, plus this being a steel mold PLUS producing a larger boolit with a larger mass, the mold temp can easily get hotter than I like and not produce the quality of boolits I want.
So with this mold, I slow my casting cadence down so as to allow a bit of cooling in between casts. Likewise, I carefully monitor the alloy temp.
I'm with Gear on the mold temperature, but in my case, I've also learned how to manipulate it or regulate it with alloy temperature as the two do work hand-in-hand. The mistake is to place too much, or even all, emphasis on one factor or the other. Most new casters are concerned with alloy temp. Older casters are more concerned with mold temp (and condition).
Good stuff.
:coffee:
I adjust my mold temperature to make slightly frosted boolits with 700 degree alloy. Mold heater. A hotter mold makes better boolits (so long as melt isn't too hot ). I'm thinking of putting a PID into the aluminum plate on my hotplate in order to reduce temp swings of the mold. I don't worry about cadence. I inspect (with magnification) as I go, no throwing half of them back when I'm done. Mold's the right temp, lead's the right temp.
It is a lot to manage at once. I'm reminded of my mother, cooking a big meal and all the things she has going at once.
One thing I have come to understand is that how you set everything up is critical to success. Dean Grennell wrote about "therbligs" in The ABC's of Reloading and it makes a big difference when you have everything arranged correctly. Right now I'm using a folding table but I'm looking forward to custom-building a casting bench.
But enough typing, it's time to make the boolits!
Ooooopps... double post.
Gadget technology is overrated.
I don't use a thermometer... don't even own one... never have.
My heat source is the electric burners on an old kitchen range.
I dip alloy from old cast iron cookware.
Although I do have a bonafied boolit casting ladle, I often use an old cast iron open-top ladle.
I regulate the temperature of both my alloy and mold by intuition, gut-feeling and what I see dropping from the mold.
My boolits are shiny, well filled-out and consistent in both weight and diameter.
Oh, and speaking of Dean Grennell and The ABC's of Reloading...
He wrote in one of those editions that there are some people who, for whatever reason, are incapable of casting a decent boolit no matter how hard they try... LOL‼
I remember when I read that I prayed I wasn't one of those people.
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That's awesome. Getting a thermomter helped me immensely. I couldn't get any consistency before. Now I'm starting to be very happy with my boolits. I would never recommend to a beginner to not use one.
:bigsmyl2: Hi gear.Great post.Outsanding information.Some of the posts that I see here and at other sites that I frequent,remind me of an old joke.
There was a professor at a well known place of "higher education"that would always leave his students with a little gem at the end of each class.One day he said,Students,remember this."Anything conceived by the mind of man is possible".
From the back of the room comes this voice that says"Heyyyyyyyy professor,did ya ever try to strike a match on a marsh mellow".
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo
No, I wouldn't either... but at the same time I likely wouldn't tell them they need one.
I mean, knowing that an alloy temperature of 700° works best when the shop is 65° with 40% relative humidity in April does me no good in July or November... heck, chances are it does me no good tomorrow. With the pot a bit over ¾ full (20 pounds or so) I have a base setting on the stove burner I use... which is really all a thermometer would do for me, supply me with a base setting. I adjust from there as conditions and/or mold dictate... sometimes hotter, sometimes cooler. There's a small fan mounted on the wall for cooling the mold or sprue as/if needed, such as when I begin to see some frosting. Sometimes I hold the mold with the sprue plate facing the fan, sometimes the mold bottom, sometimes one side or the other, sometimes full, sometimes empty, sometimes open, sometimes closed, sometimes every pour, sometimes every 2 or 3, anywhere from a 2-count to a 10-count (actually, I mount a ticktock clock above the fan)... it all depends on what I see dropping. I don't care to adjust casting rate except as a last resort; as a ladle caster I have a rate that's comfortable and works for me... not "speed casting", but not dilly-dallying either (although, doing the fan thing does adjust it slightly). But I like shiny boolits, and that's what I adjust for... shiny, well filed out, sharp cornered boolits.
Seriously... I'm unable to see where an alloy thermometer would be of any sort of aid to me.
But I do believe a mold thermometer, say some sort of wireless constant read-out, would be immensely advantageous... maybe some day as technology progresses.
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It might help you get the shiny boolits you desire quicker without having to cast and adjust as much. Also might help you keep from destroying a batch with zinc contamination when smelting or keep from oxidizing the expensive tin out of your melt.
You made me laugh about the humidity in April, and it's true, whatever you think you know, there are always other outside forces acting on your results. The proof really is in the pudding and if what you're doing is working then you're GTG...but someone else reading the forum trying to learn how to do it may not have the same luck, and that's what Geargnasher is trying to prevent.
That said, I did learn yesterday that my RCBS thermometer wasn't as off as I thought. The Tel Tru I ordered from NOE actually read about 30 or 40 degrees higher than the RCBS...so I really was running 1000 degree metal.
I also learned from my new mold block thermometer that it takes a little bit longer to get the mold up to temp with my "hot plate" than I thought. I was probably starting at <200 degree temp so that's why it took so long to get good boolits. With 750 degree lead the mold seemed to "like" running between 400 and 425 degrees. Below that I seemed to get a lot of rounded bases.
I'd like to see a little lower mold temp. Still can't really get the drip-o-matic adjusted to suit...either pours too much and splashes out of the mold or drips constantly...but it was a good session with about a quart and a half of good boolits. Still learning but I know a helluva lot more than I did a month ago
I have a Lee dripper with PID control, use the hot plate to preheat the moulds. Previously had been running 720F for 4x Al. moulds. I pour really big puddles to begin to get the sprue plate up to temp faster, then try for smaller puddle. Now I just got a 2x Al. with the slotted plate. At 720F, hard to get good fill. I dropped to 680-690F and WOW. First - minor dripping! More than 650 165gr rifle boolits, maybe a dozen bad pours - yes, make sure the plate is all the way closed. Culled for rounded shank base - 26 poor - barely visible. I'll shoot these sans check anyway. All this in 2 hrs including fill & refill time & dump sprue cuts back, plus a rest break for me. Experiment and find what the mould really wants! Temp makes a difference as much as size.