Ain't that the truth........ A lot of people say the Gunsite shoots 1.5 to 2.5 MOA..... maybe in their hands, but the five I've shot do quite a bit better than that with cast and jacketed. Go for it Lefty.................
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We recently got permission to shoot on private land out to 850yds. We also have permission on some more land that the owner says that 1,000yds shot will be easy. We haven't seen or measured the second place yet. We hope to measure it soon. This will be just practice til we go to the class later this fall.
my long barreled rifle is ready and waiting. It was proven yrs ago. My curiosity is what this shorty will do.....
Please keep us posted.
When I set up my gun originally to shoot LR Silhouette I estimated the Velocity of my Standard load to be @2600fps from the 16" bbl.
My Chrony was reading 2780fps and I knew this had to be bogus.
I plugged the Bullet BC, 2600fps for Velocity etc. into an online Ballistic Computer, and solved for every 50 yards from 200 to 600 yards using a 200 yard Mechanical Zero.
My results for elevation offsets were for the silhouette ranges of 200m-220yds. .5 MOA,,, 300m/330 yds. 4.0 MOA, 385M/420 yds. 7.5 MOA, and 500M/550 yds. 12.75 MOA.
The estimated velocity was confirmed by the bullets trajectory which is "fixed" for any given starting velocity, and as such the same inputs for the load could be used to solve for elevation offsets out to whatever? The only limiting factor is the amount of Elevation Travel in the scope.
The bullet will go that far!
I have shot my gun on Fixed Steel Targets out to 500M at Wes Thompsons range in Piru CA. The target was painted pink so you could see exactly where the shots were hitting. Three in a row on the 500 M Ram in a triangle 6" across. which also verifies the normal 7/8MOA I get at 100 yards.
At 1000 yards we are looking at a 12" group! exterior ballistic factors not withstanding.IE dead air.
This is that same 16.5" barreled rifle that Lefty is shooting only difference being that I am shooting 147gr recycled M80 ball bullets and not nice Matchkings.
I am not a Long Range Wizard ! I simply watched a video series from Magpul on Long Range Shooting, taught by Todd Hodnett. You should Google him. This series was recently put up on You Tube but I don't know if it is still there. However there is everything you could possibly want to know about hitting things at long range on this video. He is best known for teaching Army and Marine Sniper Instructors. He is the sharpest on this subject I have ever seen.
I learned just a "few things" like how to plot a trajectory, how to use a Ballistic Computer, and the different things that you can do to predict where your gun will shoot.
Believe me I am no expert, but the knowledge I gained watching these videos certainly propelled me to the status of "Talented Amateur!"
My point here is that learning how to shoot at long range is senior to the equipment. As long as the equipment is capable of delivering MOA accuracy, you are good to go and the rest is on the shooter.
The Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle is capable of hitting at 1000 yards. and that is with cheesy bullets. With good bullets it probably will do better. Another 200 fps at the muzzle (24" bbl)will have little effect at those distances and will only reduce the trajectory by a negligible amount. That amount is simply of no consequence.
Pretty much everyone agrees that the .308 is a viable 800 yard cartridge from a normal rifle. They shoot at 1000 yds all the time with F Class and Palma Rifles, and whereas these guns are purpose built for competition and may shoot a little tighter than a Scout will, in the end they aren't that much better than MOA accuracy. Even .5 MOA at 1000 yds. is only a 6" group.
In the real world how bad is a 12" group at 1000 yards?
My whole point here is that if a gun will shoot 1 MOA or better then it is up to the shooter to make the hits, at whatever range he chooses to shoot. This is the mechanical fact.
The range is of no consequence,,, It only takes the bullet longer to get there.
The knowledge of how to do this, is senior to the mechanical side of the equation.
I predict that Lefty and the Scout will do just fine!
Randy
We are now at 625 posts on this thread, and it has been running for 3 1/2 years. Must be something worthwhile about these guns.
Randy
Lefty: Who's LR school are you going to? Is it Todd Hodnett's school in West Texas?
Gotta tell ya, that is something I would really love to do some day.
Looking forward to hearing what you learn.
Randy
No, its Dan Newberrys Bangsteel. We plan to go in late October. Its in Wytheville VA
First tests showed my velocity to be around the 2660 fps mark. I still need to get a good average though.
I'm interested to see how this 1000 yard experiment turns out also. I've seen an internet rumor several times stating that Ruger tested the GSR out to 1000 yards before they ever released it but I've never been able to find any data or results. It's not something I intend to try with my GSR but it'd be interesting to me to know none the less.
Hawkcreek: The bullets will go 1000 yards. After they leave the barrel you don't have any control over them.
For the most part, accuracy is "linier," meaning whatever happens at 100 yards is simply amplified at 1000 yards by a factor of 10.
Obviously there are outside forces working on the bullet during it's flight, but you have no control over those either. You can only compensate for them.
This is why Lefty is going to this school. To learn how to better compensate for the external forces that work against you as range increases.
Realistically if the gun will shoot inside and inch at 100 yards consistently, then the scope you have on it will be the most important piece of equipment. It's ability to repeat it's settings and the type of reticle and various aiming points on that reticle will be what get used the most in his school. This is the exact reason I changed out the optic on my GSR to one that has a Mildot reticle and Mil adjustments. Leupold VX-R 3-9. I could have gone to a 4-12x scope but saw no reason for the extra bulk, and the vast majority of my shooting is 600 yards or less. Still I could do a 800+ yard poke with little or no disadvantage since the scope has plenty of vertical adjustment left to get out to even 1000 yds. Also since it has the Mildot Reticle there are multiple aiming points on the reticle that can be used predictably to go out even further, as well as compensating for windage predictably.
He will also probably use a Ballistic Computer app on his cell phone to calculate specific range holdovers and windage offsets.
The pulling the trigger part of this is the easy part. There is a lot to learn here.
Once again for all interested in this subject go on You Tube and find the Magpul Long Range Shooting Class. If that has been pulled down, (it was a bootleg deal anyway) then go to Magpul direct and buy the 5 disc presentation which covers every single aspect of Long Range Shooting known to man,,, In excruciating detail! It is well worth the money!
After watching these videos a few times you will see exactly what I have been talking about in these last few posts.
In my last Rifle Class at Front Sight I shot my Kel-Tec SU16CA in .223/5.56. On day three they took us back to 400 yards to shoot at steel targets. You only got 5 shots to hit the target. I had an Ex Seal spotting for me.
Shooting from the prone position it took 5 shots to get on target, and I had to be able to call my shots and get perfect shot breaks or else we couldn't have figured out the holdoffs for the next shot. On shot #5 I was holding 2 feet high and 3 feet left and you could see the bullet trace in the overcast day. Sandy Kofax curve ball,,, Strike, dead center!
My gun has a Bushnell Red Dot Sight on it zeroed at 200 yards! There were in excess of 60 people watching and there were an appropriate number of OOOH's and AHHH's when I stood up with the 6lb plastic carbine.
Read My signature and apply it to this story. [smilie=s:
Randy
It's simple really. If the 175 SMK reaches X speed it will reach to 1,000 yds and beyond. Whether or not the rifle or shooter can put it there is a whole other question.
That is not said to slander anybody. Lefty SRH has shot to 1,000 before so if his rifle can do it, then he'll be banging 1,000 yd steel.
I find it funny how on the internet the 308 magically nose dives into the dirt as soon as it hits 800 yds.
Yes, I know a .308 will go 1000 yards. I've shot (many) M80's out to 2500 meters in Iraq, past the max effective range of the system. I wasn't questioning any part of that. As long as the round stays above the speed of sound I agree accuracy is linear more or less. I only mentioned the rumor about Ruger testing because it seems they were also interested apparently. I myself would like to know how it turns out just for sheer edification.
Dan also teaches you how to range a known size target using the reticle in your scope. He teaches you how to read the wind which a completely separate day.
Theres three of us for sure going, possibly four. If the fourth guy goes he will take his GSR aswell for a total of three GSRs at the class.
Ill also be taking my old Savage as a backup and for a little exercise.
Im excited and almost ready.
Dan actually carries you out to 1040yds as long as you progress/hit the previous target.
W.R. Buchanan What kind of load are you shooting to get 2,600 from a 16" barrel?
The .308 is a great round but most load data for a 24" barrel tops out at 2,600 for medium powders and a few slower powders touching 2,800fps. A 16" barrel and the law of diminishing returns pretty well puts powders faster than Varget out for that combo. Are you using a 155 Palma style bullet? I was thinking that might be a way to get this combo to run.
My personal testing at 5-7,000ft elevation has shown about a 50fps loss per inch across the board in most loads. This has been true from rifles to my handguns with rifle round loads. For giggles I put my 22" and 18" .308s up on my home bench. My standard .308 165g Interlock WIN760 load shot at 2,670fps and the same load in the 18" shot 2,590fps. This is at 5,090ft elevation and at Ojai CA elivation of 3,000ft would drop to about 2,600/2,500fps. Very much in line with the 50fps per inch loss. Drop another 2" of barrel and you'd be in the 2,400fps range.
A 168 match round in a 24" barrel at 2700fps and .450 BC drops at -407.1" @ 1,000y while that same load in a 16.6" barrel will only be kicking at 2400fps MV and drop -533.3" at 1,000y. To add to that at impact its going 1,057fps and depending on altitude has gone subsonic. Moving to a 175SMK your dropping another 25".
I know it can be done. If a 45-70 can wang a gong at 1,000y a .308 can do it that has been done plenty of times before.
NV Scouter: My standard load is 147 gr M80 ball Pulled/recycled bullets against 45.0 gr of IMR 4895. The 2600 fps quoted has been verified by the trajectory of the bullet. As you know there are several ways to deduce velocity.. Obviously the Chronograph is one, however it can be done with a ballistic calculator as well, by working backwards from a known trajectory with a known bullet. The velocity will produce a specific trajectory for a known Bullet's BC.
I got 2780 fps off my Chrony with this load and knew this was a bogus number. This specific load per Lyman 49 should generate 2800 fps in a 24" bbl. I was figuring 25 fps loss per inch, based on input from some well informed people at Ruger. These guns seem to lose less velocity than other guns do, and I personally attribute this to the Hammer forged barrel which started out smooth and is now like looking thru a twisted glass tube.
I estimated 2600 fps and plugged that number into the ballistic calculator which gave me the elevation offsets for every 50 yards out to 600 yds. using a 200 yard Mechanical Zero. Each of the offsets were verified by shooting off a rest at 200, 300 385 and 500 meters and the calculator predicted the offsets perfectly for each distance.
Your altitude maybe what is affecting your readings, but irrespective of that we are very close to the same conclusion. My lighter bullets may be the difference.
We are all in agreement that the bullets will go that far,,, It is simply up to the shooter to make it hit something when it gets there.
There are many forces working against you , but it is possible to counter act them. First you must know that they exist. That's what you go to school for.
One of my fantasies is to go back in time to the Alamo. With my rifle and 20 rounds of ammo I could have ended that massacre before it ever started. One shot for Santa Anna, one for his Generals, That's it! Hell they were only 400 yards away A Sharps Rifle with Iron Sights could have ended it.
Just bet Texas would be a Sovereign Country now.
Randy
You are correct about staying supersonic at 1K but the 168s get real squirrelly at a grand. I know one range wont even let you shoot them Past 600yds.
Sierras old Palma 155gr bullet #2155 and the newer #2156 do great at 1,000. And of coarse the main stay 175 SMK.