Wow, Gray Fox sounds like a heck of a deal.
42.0gr H4895 and the Winchester 147gr FMJ's and a CCI200 primer was a favored load of mine for 7.62x51 NATO rifles per my book.
Just a duplicate of M80 stuff really.
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Wow, Gray Fox sounds like a heck of a deal.
42.0gr H4895 and the Winchester 147gr FMJ's and a CCI200 primer was a favored load of mine for 7.62x51 NATO rifles per my book.
Just a duplicate of M80 stuff really.
I've enjoyed reading this thread, but I still won't be trading in my .303 Bush Rifle anytime soon. Had I not had this built in the 1970s, I would be sorely tempted.
The rifle pictured was assembled using a Cdn. Long Branch No.4 Mk.2*, refitted with 22" Heym hammer forged 7.62mm, four-groove one turn in 10-inch twist barrel, but instead of converting the rifle to 7.62, it was kept in the original .303 British caliber. The .30 cal. barrel was chambered with a pressure-velocity test barrel reamer which avoids the excessive case expansion and poor case life experienced with the wartime "trench" chamber.
Extensive pressure testing done at the time in which both ".30 caliber" and ".303" dimensioned barrels were fitted up for radial copper pressure measurements, indicated that while the smaller .308 groove diameter did raise chamber pressures somewhat, the degree of pressure rise of approximately +2500 to 3000 cup when firing UK and Cdn. Mk.VII Ball, Cdn., WRA and Yugo MkVIIIz and commercial Kynoch, Remington, Winchester, PPU or CIL 180-grain softpoint ammunition, was well within design limits of a properly set up rifle and therefore presented no hazard whatever.
Using the nominal ".30 caliber" barrel and chambered for the .303 cartridge permits use of either factory .303 British loads or handloads using more common .308" diameter bullets. In over 25 years of field use I have found this rifle completely satisfactory and it has killed truckloads of game, using any .303 ammo available, including WW2 era cordite Mk.VII ball and scrounged, unbelted armour piercing!
The .303 with 180-grain, parallel-sided, round-nosed, hemispherical point, controlled expansion bullet, such as the Remington Core-Lokt factory load, at 2450 fps, is just about ideal for any non-dangerous game within 250 yards.
The 4x32mm scope is offset to permit rapid reloading with chargers, the 2-legged battlesight provides sturdy rough shooting for use up to 250 yards, coinciding with the scope zero, and with the long leg providing suitable point of hold and up to 400 yards which coincides with the lower post of the duplex scope reticle. Front sight base is from a Pattern 14, the muzzle being turned down to fit, the band pressed on and pinned. VERY solid.
Attachment 78827
I would expect the Ruger GSR set up such that either rugged iron sights, or scope could be used at will, would do every bit as well!
Outpost75 - Thanks for sharing that rifle with us.
Glad to do that. The concept was inspired by a rifle I saw at Holland & Holland which was being built for a retired Col. of Royal Engineers, who was deployed in East Africa doing map surveys. He was a CBI vet and was an aquaintance of a mutual friend, Col. John George, who wrote the Samworth book, "Shots Fired In Anger". When I was a new LT one of my assignments was interviewing CBI vets to capture for doctrinal archive purposes, such field and tradecraft that would be useful in our then-current foreign entanglements.
The Holland & Holland "expedition rifle" was featured in the UK publication "Shooting Times and Country Magazine" and I carried a much read and dog-eared copy for years until meeting a canadian gunsmith who was willing to build my rifle and ship it to me in the US where I was stationed at the time. It is built in the style of RCMP bush rifles from the late 1970s.
Glad to do that. The concept was inspired by a rifle I saw at Holland & Holland which was being built for a retired Col. of Royal Engineers, who was deployed in East Africa doing map surveys. He was a CBI vet and was an aquaintance of a mutual friend, Col. John George, who wrote the Samworth book, "Shots Fired In Anger". When I was a new LT one of my assignments was interviewing CBI vets to capture for doctrinal archive purposes, such field and tradecraft that would be useful in our then-current foreign entanglements.
The Holland & Holland "expedition rifle" was featured in the UK publication "Shooting Times and Country Magazine" and I carried a much read and dog-eared copy for years until meeting a canadian gunsmith who was willing to build my rifle and ship it to me in the US where I was stationed at the time. It is built in the style of RCMP bush rifles from the late 1970s.
Gray Fox: H4895 and IMR 4895 are not exactly the same but pretty close. A Hodgdons manual will give good numbers. You are looking for loads in the 2800fps range with normal length bbls. that will yield about 2600 fps from your gun.
Outpost: That is a pretty cool gun. I know that the British Sniper Rifles up til the current ASI guns, were converted SMLE's in .308. It sounds like your gun is pretty much the same animal except in the Crown's own caliber.
It is pretty hard to argue with 120 years of success.
Randy
I did try a few RD 165's in mine. I had trouble loading them from the magazine and if I recall correctly engraved on the ogive too. I abandoned the experiment early on. Single loaded they seemed to shoot as well as everything else. MY RGS is not very finicky. They Lyman 311041 will hang up when feeding from the magazine too but shortening the OAL seemed to resolve that. It shoots very well in the RGS as does the 311284.
I get the best results if I size them .309"
With Jacketed bullets I've had the best results at or near Max loads. Mine seems to shoot 165's better than 150's
Hey Gray Fox. How did the rifle shoot? Also, replied to your PM. If you can make it to the match this month I will use my GSR also. Means I have to load some cast boolits for my rifle as I was playing a few weeks ago and shot my stash up. Don' t worry about spare mags for the GSR. I have plenty.
Hi all. I bought one of these rifles last year and love it. I want to start shooting silhouettes and was contemplating buying another rifle until I found this thread. I will post my results and load data as I progress. Looks like this thread will live forever.
I'd like a recommendation on a scope. I'm not committed to either conventional or long relief , so opinions on both are welcome. I have only shot with irons and my bullets are 160g polymer tips over 45.5g of W748 (this is what I had on hand). I'm thinking after reading this thread I'm going to find some 147g fmj bullets and try a different powder. Thanks for a great site and thread.
Now that things are calming down, I'm going to order equipment to start casting my own. I look forward to learning from all of you and contributing where I can
Joe
When I shot jackets out of my GSR I like IMR 4064, IMR 4895, and Varget. My rifle primarily like 150gr class bullets. If you use the bulk 147 "pulled" bullets go thru each one and match the weights and check the diameters in 2 places, 90* from each other, on each bullet. The pulled 147's are normally machine gun ammo thats been pulled.
For cast right now I am working with a RCBS 308-200 SIL and it seems to like a max charge (using jacket 200gr data) of 39.0gr of IMR 3031. I'll be retesting this load again very soon.
Here is a picture of mine. I removed the factory rail and rear sight. Im waiting on an XS rail, but in the meantime I used the factory rings, and a 3x9x40 Bushnell scope I took off one of my other rifles a while back and had sitting in a box. Its not the best scope, but it will do the job until my rail comes in and I research a new scope to buy.
Im going to go out to the range and see how it shoots with the 160gr poly tip bullets I have. I did find some 147gr FMJ pulled bullets. I will be ordering them soon. The goal is to have some success shooting in local silhouette matches. Wish me luck :smile:
Good Luck - competition is first against yourself - then against the other guy - remember that.
Thats stock is slightly different color from others I've seen. It seems to ahve a greenish hue to it. Nice looking nonetheless....
I think its just the light coming in the room that made it look that way. Thanks for the compliments and the encouragement. I am my biggest opponent. Need to find me a 5 shot mag next.
Artful, where in AZ are you?
Junkman: You'll do fine with that gun shooting LR Silhouette. Believe me the gun will be the least of your worries since LR Sil is not an easy game.
Any of your loads that produce 2800 fps in a 24" bbl. will yield 2600 fps in the 16" bbl. That's what you're looking for with the 147gr pulls.
I had no problem with mine being out of round, mainly due to the fact that they were sized after being pulled. Everyone was .3078 which is close enough. I have shot several 7/8" groups and I consider this to be more than acceptable accuracy. I didn't even bother to "work up loads" in the traditional sense. This load did what I want and has become "my story and I'm stickin' to it" kind of thing. I see no need to wring out the last iota of accuracy when you've got something that works.
As stated many times here, my standard load consists of 45 gr of IMR 4895 under the 147gr surplus bullets. I use Rem 9 1/2 primers that I have had for 30 years (trying to use them up), and I am still loading my original 100 American Eagle cases that I bought at a gun show for $10.95 a box 3 years ago.
I have been using an RCBS X Die to control case growth and it is working great. I trimmed all these cases once originally and then again when I got the die and no more since over the last three loadings. I also use a nice roll crimp done with the normal bullet seating die with the stem removed and seat with an RCBS Comp Die.
Any of the powders you listed should work well as the .308 is not a real finicky round to load. IMR 4895, Varget, and W748/BLC-2, will all deliver good results. If you are loading on a progressive like a Dillon 550B then I'd consider the W748/ BLC-2 since it meters thru a Dillon measure very accurately.
I tried to do this with IMR4895 with no luck and now use a Lyman Electronic measure to dispense this powder. It burns clean and efficiently in the .308 and if you shoot a.30-06 it works really well for that too.( same bullets and same charge weight.)
The more you shoot this gun the better you are going to like it, and I have no problem whatsoever ripping off 40 rounds in a Saturday Silhouette match.
You choice of a scope is fine for what you are wanting to do. I started out with a 1-5x Leupold and recently installed a 3-9X Leupold VX-R Patrol on the XS rail . I ended up shooting at 6x! Simply because the higher magnifications amplify my wobbling too much to hit anything.
I highly recommend that you set aside some range time to shoot the gun at each of the game distances and note the elevation settings on your scope. It is very difficult to use the holdover technique and do anything worthwhile. With a base zero of 200 yards you will adjust to 4 different elevations for the course. Windage needs to be dead on at 500 meters and everything else will take care of itself.
I can't tell you how many times I see guys "chasing the sights" all over the course, and not hitting anything. You can't make meaningful corrections Offhand. Or at least I can't. Once your gun is sighted in at the various distances, work with it. If you miss it is doubtful that it will be as a result of the scope being off.
Using the same load every time will insure that you have removed that variable. You concentrate on shooting the gun and not fiddling with the sights. With known elevation settings for all four distances, and a good idea of the sight picture for each of those targets, all you have to do is pull the trigger when the sight picture is there.
Chasing the sights is just an exercise in futility and a waste of ammo.
The biggest thrill of the game is hitting one of those 500 meter Rams the first time, and you will quickly come to realize how formidable you are as a Rifleman, because if you can hit one of those off hand, you can hit everyone, every time over a rest! If you are doing this to improve your hunting skills then that is one thing. If you look at it from the tactical view point,,, you are the king of your mountain.
What ever you do,,,do not get discouraged with this game. It can be, and generally is, pretty frustrating. And anyone who thinks it is easy to hit a 24x18 target at 500 meters from the standing position is either really good or FOS!
Also keep in mind that there is a Short Range Silhouette game which is shot at 50,100,150, and 200 meters with the same sized targets and Cast Boolits. It is less frustrating. But still very challenging. There is also .22 Rimfire Silhouette, and I just shot 31/40 with open sights last Saturday, at 40,50,75,and 100 yards for that game.
Shooting all of these will help your Long Range Game immensely.
Learn your gun, learn the game, and you'll have a great time. The Scout will work well for you, as it has for me.
Randy
Randy,
I was hoping you would chime in. I have the utmost respect for what you have been able to do with this rifle. I heard all the negatives about this rifle and never saw any of them, and then when I decided to start LRS I was told the rifle wouldn't work. I figured it was hogwash, as I was trained to shoot 500m in the USMC with a 223 with the same length barrel. This site and your and everyone elses posts have given me the confidence I needed to proceed with this. Thank you. :)
I look forward to posting my results or lack of :)
Joe
Most tactical rifles used by SWAT guys have 20" or less bbls. The thing is at 2600 fps which is what I'm getting, as verified by the bullets trajectory, not a Chrono. It goes 550 yds. just fine. And you wouldn't want to get hit with one. The shorter bbl. is actually considerably more accurate than a longer bbl. simply because the wave impulse is not as pronounced as it is on the longer bbl.
When I sighted in my gun in with the new Leupold scope recently at Wes Thompson's range in Piru CA (where they shoot all the pistol matches you see on TV) There were Silhouette targets placed at all of the correct ranges. They were implanted hard up so they wouldn't get knocked over and you could hit them repeatedly. They were also repainted hourly so you could see what you were doing.
I hit the 500 meter Ram three times in the shoulder and the group was a 6" triangle,,, On the shoulder! In other words the accuracy of this gun is more than adequate for the game.
People inherently don't like change. I am the same way, however I feel one must overcome this when it becomes obvious that there is a another or better way.
Believe me when I tell you that the gun will be the least of your worries when shooting LRS!
Also get yourself two 5 rnd polymer mags from Ruger.com. I find the gun holds better with the 5 rnd mag in place.
You'll be just fine and if they give you Ship, it means they are afraid of you!
Randy
They are always afraid of Marines!
Drew
is 2400 Alliant powder?