Who lives in Nevada?
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Who lives in Nevada?
I live in Nevada. Why?
Great post, Recluse!!!
I have been reloading for 20 years and seriously casting for the last year or two, but I still have to remind myself to go search for the info I need and to check out the stickies. Yep, I missed the sticky on shooting GC boolits without the GC. I had done it in a revolver, but wanted to do it with a rifle. I was used to zooming down the page and skipping over some of the stickies.
I am pretty good at researching. Sometimes I find the answer right away, and other times it may take a while to stumble across what I need (like cleaning lead or oxide build up from mold cavities). If you know how to find it, and it is listed properly, all your answers are probably out there.
The description of shooters is great. I started out shooting and loading at the same time so I could shoot a few times per year. I got into action pistol competitions around 4 years ago and fell into making bulk quantities of one load. My Smith 460 revolver got me back into casting and making up more tailored loads. That led to casting and loading for my rifles which led to a lever action match two weeks ago. Now I am looking for a tailored load that is easy on the shooter and economical, so I can save money..........errrrrr.........I mean shoot more.
I have offered to take many people to the range with my equipment, or theirs, so they can get a feel for the shooting sports or even just get familiar with a pistol for self defense purposes. None of them have taken me up on the offer. I am teaching a range buddy to reload, but he was already a member of the private club I go to, and he likes the idea of actually learning to craft his own economical ammo. He will probably be the type to run one good load all the time. I have also taught my roommate to shoot and reload (she went target shooting as a kid) but I lead the way and she helps when we load ammo. She would probably try handloading on her own, if she had her own place and equipment, but for now I make the critical decisions as I am paying for the supplies and the ammo is used in my firearms.
I hang out at Calguns forum, but I really like this forum because people are serious about the craft. There is less BS here, and more learning/teaching.
Thank you, long time shooters, for passing on the info.
I think this paragraph is as timely and accurate as the original post. The balance here is out of whack with so many new casters. I am one of them having just gotten interested in the end of 2011 beginning 2012. I read here for months before even joining. Gear is correct in that it is somewhat exciting to me to be able to help someone with a basic question that I have learned over the last year or so. It has also gotten so bad lately that even I can't believe some of the things people ask even once, let alone again and again and sometimes only days apart. Things are asked and/or reposted before they even get off the first page of posts, let alone the fact there's already a sticky on it! [smilie=b:
This site is quite intimidating at first I believe, even to long time handloaders. The vast amount of knowledge contained is staggering, the way some things are grouped doesn't make sense at first, and their's a whole different language and different methodology to doing things with cast vs. how I used to do things. Most of what you've ever heard about casting before you came here is wrong so you have to dump that "knowledge" at the door. It is worth every bit of time and effort it takes to digest what is presented here though. R5R progressed my casting by years on another site before I ever melted lead. He may not know it because I was mainly just reading his answers to other peoples questions over for the most part, but he did. I've found the things I picked up from reading his posts priceless and accurate.
For all you old cantankerous hands, thank you! Please don't give up and keep on keeping on. I still desperately need your help. :lovebooli
Very nicely put, and the hierarchical listing is probably pretty close to reality. One of the problems these days, however, is that the current generations are used to instant answers. You can see it everywhere - someone says something, or asks a question, and someone will whip out their mobile phone/ipad, bring up google, type in a question and there it is, instant answer. No need to read manuals, and all the other "irrelevant" stuff in there when all you want is an answer to a specific question.
Me (being an oldie), when I get interested in something I spend untold hours scouring the internet and associated forums, reading books etc. trying to learn as much as I can (someone once said that knowledge is power). That is part of the enjoyment, for me, reading and learning. I have a need to understand my new-found interest.
But you left out Black Powder shooting in the hierachy [smilie=1:.
One word answer about your post JD
EXCELLENT
A big THANK YOU to Recluse! Some of us with grey beards have an intense understanding of a narrow niche of the total scope of this forum. True Masters of our little corners of the great quilt. Even Chuck Yeager probably had a few dumb questions he asked without extensive self research before he found himself seated in an X plane. So when new bee asks how many ounces of tin to add to a bucket of wheel weighs to make hard casting lead; well, have patience with the poor devil.
A few of those Tenderfoots may make Eagle Scout.
prs
"I'm just on there to spread the gospel of the cast bullet lifestyle."
Amen
Battling it out with one guy that believes in the jacketed hype real bad. Posted a pic of his cape buffalo. Big deal. Cast bullets can kill them too. Clinging to the late 19th century nonsense really.
There are more with me than against me though. Maybe we all hang around together on FB and not know each other's names from our screen names here on the forum?
Sounds like the same one I'm on there too Adam, they all seem too go like "I've never reloaded before, what do I need?" Three out of five replies are, a Dillon 650. Have yet too see a suggestion for a book.
My, oh my.
Recluse I have to say after reading your post and the responses to it I am printing your post off and framing it to go next to my computer. I will admit I am more of a lurker and normaly dont post on sites but have in the past tried to search for information and after not seeing what I was looking for after a few quick searchs pulled the old look for the librarian routine. "Excuse me I know its here somewere could you point me to .............." but I think I am going to go back and read every stickie to see just what I might have missed.
To the forum as a whole I have learn alot of things over the last couple of years from the members here by just lurking and reading and would like to say Thank You.
Great thoughts JD. I have occasionally wished I could go back to being happy with one load that shoots well from each of my guns but still have that burning desire to improve each one.
Very good post, your thoughts concerning todays instant gradification society mimic conversations that my wife and I have had for a variety of topics where this personality trait is a liability( she is a teacher in public school). My cudos to you for being able to type fast enough to put that much print on "paper" in one day.
Perhaps a test/quiz should be made up by our resident psychologists to be giving to new members to allow them to see the type of mentality (personality?) that is required to become a boolit caster?
only one or two questions would cover the test.
something like do you fix stuff around the house or work on your own vehicles?, would pretty much cover it.
back to the O.P.
J.D. you missed a section in the hierarchy.
the guy's that go beyond the gun part to delve into the what's and how's of internal/external ballistics, or into the depths of why things like lube affect the first shot or a long string of shots.
or even the next step of reloading beyond wild catting where they figure out how to actually fit a case to an off the shelf rifle and hold a boolit/bullet in the centerline of a barrel.
or how to actually measure a guns throat and see what a boolit should be shaped like to actually fit beyond just making the thing larger in diameter.
those types of things are what make this sight great, many here know and understand those [and more] and will share if approached with an open mind and a sincere attitude.
House yes, vehicles no.
As a new caster, this site has saved me tons of money and time. Thanks to all the folks who have been patient with me! I hope to add to the science.
PS, House work, YES, Vehicle, minimal.
JD, you Sir are the Man! Excellent write-up, well thought out. I thorougly enjoyed it. No wonder you wrote a book. Merry Christmas and keep up the good work.
OB
(The only "stupid" question is the one not asked.)
I am impressed by the width and breadth of the technical knowledge and experience brought to this forum by the members. I am amazed at the amount intelligently directed experimentation that goes on and also the stoopid things that people confess to like shooting chronographs. Lots of people are comfortable posting their goof ups and we can lčarn from them and analyse them. One thing about the stickies is that there are so many of them but only because we don't throw away gold. In fairness in researching on this sight I have often gotten an information overload.
Recluse has done it again! Eloquently stated what I've seen and commented on different times. GREAT post!!!!
I quoted the above because I will say that it "SEEMS" that many of the questions wanting instant gratification come from the younger members, but I have seen several from new members that should be mature enough to study a bit before popping out the repeat questions. I personally have tried to ignore questions that are extremely basic and have been answered in multiple posts before. Sometimes I will point a fellow in the right direction, and on occasion I'll answer although I usually will add a source for further reading.
I have noticed a trend though in the mid-level members NOT answering other's questions. When I get really frustrated with the "silly" questions, I try to remember that Molly and several others that have departed would occasionally point a guy in the right direction in hopes that he would learn how to help himself somewhat. We have lost many since I joined, but I see many others coming along that at least partially fill those empty shoes.
Thanks for a great post Recluse...
Edd
Not so much repeat questions that bother me. I don't expect someone brand new to casting either to know their way around this rather large forum or have read it here before. There are still a lot of old wives tales floating around even in the printed media regarding casting and it's easy to see where/how a new guy can get confused. The ones I tend to ignore are the ones that obviously have done zero reading or research, questions like "Are there any good loads for a 38 special"? Questions such as "what kind of lead should I be looking for for my 38 special" is an entirely different type of question and sounds like someone that really does want to learn something.
Not very much recently but a few years ago there was a rash of posts that I called alphabet posts. A long paragraph without a single capital letter or punctuation mark, not a period, comma, nothing but line after line of a very long string of letters. Those were ignored, I rarely got through the first line of letters before going to a different thread. Those posters were screaming to me loud & clear that they couldn't care less how hard to read their post was just figure it out and tell me what I want to hear. Yep, sure I will.
Rick
cbrick has made a good point in the above post without really saying what is on my mind after reading this thread.
So to that I'm going to issue a challenge to our educated masses hear. We all know that the search functions of forums
leave something to be desired, and while a lot of us have had to learn "how to phrase a question to get what we're looking for" on, say, google,
the same needs to work here. My challenge would be that when you give a response to someones query, try to phrase it in such a way as to make is
easier for searches to bring up good results.
I will agree, that there is a literal ton (or more) of info available here. I spent months reading before I signed on to this forum.
Yet, when I go searching for something, I often encounter pages of search hits without a hint of what I'm looking for.
Rephrasing your search many times makes a huge difference. So, I'm asking that when posting, we take enough time to think,
"how can I phrase this so that someone might find it in the future".
Recluses OP is outstanding and is very sticky worthy, glad to see it was made.
This is a great forum, with a huge wealth of knowledge, and I for one just want to say thanks to all who make this what it is.
Why do some newbs do better than others?
On some threads maybe half the answers are not pertinent to the question where the "expert" responder simply didn't read or can't read with comprehension. Some answers are simply wrong, overly simple and/or purposefully cryptic, vague, cute or poorly represented. Some newbs are more prone to slick language or sales pitches that sound good and are easy and cheap--- just human nature. While some other newbs THINK about all the responses then use the matter between their ears and proceed to learn mostly by their own independent research, experience, common sense and initiative.
Recluse, very well said!
I don't know that this is so much a generational issue as an issue of approach and expectation.
This could be exemplified if you had a student show up who wanted you to teach him or her how to cast. There is the student who really wants you to teach them how to cast so they can do it on their own, and then their is the lazy selfish sort who would be most content for you to do all the work for them. The difference between one who gladly wants to recieve knowledge and one who is simply a taker. We've always had lazy selfish sorts, nothing new under the sun when it comes to human behaviour.
Nobody likes a mooch.
Well said, Recluse et al. I suspect that many newbs find their way to us via internet queries because many of my searches lead right back here to my online home. I don't mind answering the simple questions but I try to help the poster find more info if that question indicates an incomplete understanding of the process. I'm into my 4th decade of reloading but casting is something that's relatively new to me. I feel I've learned a huge amount here and at my casting bench but each trip to either place shows me how much more I have to learn.
It's so true that a certain aptitude and a solid knowledge of firearms is required for a successful boolit casting experience. Not everyone who stumbles into this site will stick with it long enough to experience the wonders of the cast boolit. On the other hand new members keep a site alive, no forum can survive without them. Many folks on this site are patient and gracious teachers and I feel I owe it to them to pay it forward.
Thank you, Wow what a great post!
Jeepyj
There is something to be said for "LURKING" I have been here for over 3 years and there are guys that joined less than 3 months ago with a higher post count than me. Not insinuating in anyway that there is something wrong with that. Most people are more personable than I am. I don't post alot on here, not because I don't get on here much but because every question I have had is somewhere on here already. That being said, even after lurking for some nine months before I joined I look back at some of my first post and I asked what I call some stupid questions. I was in Afghanistan when I joined this site, and as I said, had lurked for some time before I joined, it occupied a lot of the few hours I had for personal time over there. Young people are trained for instant gratification by the society they grow up in. Even if they don't have the smart phones or computers at home they see it at school or at family or friends homes, they know it is out there and that it's easier to just get online and ask in some search engine for a quick answer. When it refers them here, they think why wade through the "stickies" when they can just start a thread with their question and get an answer. Obviously there are several lines of thought on this subject based on the post in this thread. There are however only 2 real options on the matter, either their question gets answered or everyone tells them to go to the "stickies" it's already answered in there. Being rude to someone because you are mad about reading a "Stupid Question" I think is uncalled for. Even if it's not until you open up the thread and read the OP's question that you discover it's a question that has been asked a hundred times before, it's still easier and less stressful for all involved if you would just hit the back button and move on.
Great write up JD.
" Young people are trained for instant gratification by the society they grow up in."
I agree whole heartedly with your entire post and I especially see the wisdom of this statement. I worked with a lot of young people for over 30 years and I also have 5 kids of my own (all grown up) so I have first hand experience with the instant gratification phenomena. I think this even extends into a lot of other areas as well.As far as this thread is concerned what is frustrating to a lurker/newbie person is having your question answered by several answers from several people.
"Hit the back button and move on" is good advice.
that is because quite often there is more than one correct answer.
for instance leading in a revolver.
it could be several different reasons cylinder throats, barrel throats, frame constriction, scroll work on the barrel, the sights dovetails.
not to mention the load and boolit details.
Ditto +1 and same as above
A while back I asked what a lee soup can is. I got 2 replies the first, from a moderator said to go to the stickies. The second told me it was a lee 113 grain boolit.
I just now tried the search function for lee soup can. I got tons of data, I mean pages and pages. The first page had two posts about 7mm soupcan boolits. The second had no threads with the word "soupcan" in the title. There were a bazillion more pages which I am sure tell a whole bunch about the lee soupcan. But the way I found out what a soupcan was tonight was to go to the list of my posts and find the one where I asked the question. I have found the search function on this site to be about useless. I once was envolved in all sorts of searches, ie patent, tax and environmental regs, research etc, so I am not unfamilar with digging stuff out. ButI have found it
I have found it very difficult to search out stuff on this sight. I have read and reread stickies and probably have read over half of them. I am not sure on that, they grow pretty fast.
Without a doubt this is my favorite site on the whole internet. There is so much about several of my favorite topics. But fellers we suffer from the problems of success. If a gun person doesn't come here there is a vast hole in his background. Even we who have been here for years learn new stuff here. If you want to ignore a noob fine, but I think this sticky is great but overly critical. A lot of us old farts make blunders. I learned that since I just plink I don't need a chrony any way.
can i use your heirarchy of gun owners as my signature or will it be too long lol maybe i can find it in a sticky ... ill be back
Been reloading 40 years. I've learned more than I'll ever use. Most of the casting knowledge came from right here in the last 5 years. Yet, there is still more to learn. The whole powder coating thing is Greek to me, and the stickies and post threads on it are long and daunting. Well, I'll get to reading them as soon as I can find anymore room in this shrinking reloading room for the 'stuff' I'll 'need'.