I'm going to give it a try--BUT if I get turned out onto the street I'm heading for Idaho with fire in my eye.
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I'm going to give it a try--BUT if I get turned out onto the street I'm heading for Idaho with fire in my eye.
you'll be fine.
take i-15 north to hwy 30 east, you can't miss town.
most everybody knows how to get to my house.
i should be able to loan the couch or find a cot.
I hold the patent on Zombie lube, in fact that was what I actually named a series of PAG lubes I was working on a while back due to the UV tracer dies in the oil:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imag...682f027e0a.jpg
:bigsmyl2:
Gear
PS Tim, you might recognize that little HB PP boolit poking out of the tray in the background....[smilie=1:
:coffeecom
r5r, Inserted chunks of "Simple Lube" in my LAM II the other day atop the Felix Lube already there and melted them with a heat gun (low temp.) once inside. It will take awhile before it works through the sizing dies. No problems to speak of.
As an aside, although the LAM II is sturdier than the Lyman #450, the latter is much easier to adjust and use. OTOH, the former has a solid bottom so it can't leak and coarse threads on the die retaining nut so it can't be easily misthreaded or stripped.
excellent.
nothing out of the ordinary so far.
i haven't seen any oil bleed out sitting in the window or any hardening of the original lube.
there may be a swap for the lanolin coming up which would extend the cold side of the effective temp zone.
[something felix,gear and i discussed] and hopefully [should] be an ingredient you can get at your local auto parts store or wal mart.
stay tuned.
R5R
In your experience does the lube perform the same in temps from mid 20s to mid 80s. That is the temperature ranges we normally get here in Arkansas during hunting season. (sometimes on the same day ) It really would be nice to know where that first shot was headed, no matter the temp.
Milkman
That is sure enough Arkansas hunting. I am hoping to experiment with this lube myself. In fact I ordered the BW from Randy two days ago.
Milkman just asked the $24,000 question.
There's a 1200-something post sticky going on addressing this very thing, it ain't as simple as it looks.
Gear
can some one tell my why you have to use BW and not the other wax from candles?
The short, less than 40K words explanation , is that BW, is majic bee throw-up, that cures cancer, diaper rash, and leading.
Candles are generally paraffin, which is mostly useless in boolit lube.
Gear,
I was aware of the sticky, but kinda like my kids used to do, I thought I would keep asking different people till I got the answer that I wanted. I really do appreciate all the time, energy and money that people here on this forum have invested in the lube question. Most of the discussions are way over my head and I am glad that some of you have the education and intelligence to understand what is going on.
Milkman
first the parrafin question.
it can be used to make a lube with,but the big issue is consistency, you can buy consistent parrafinic waxes but they usually cost more than b-wax. [they do come in some desirable viscosities though]
beeswax is a little different from batch to batch but is easily manipulated for softness with an oil or a modifier like vaseline or lanolin. [and with small amounts]
the 20/30-f area should be no problem for this lube, that's part of why the dexron ATF was added as a main ingredient.
it IS my cold weather lube modification for other lubes.
it also allows you to push a patch wetted with atf through the bbl for cleaning,and for a more consistent cold bbl first shot.
like i pointed out earlier each batch of b-wax is a little different, a little more of one ingredient or another won't make a big difference to how the lube works, but keeping a pretty consistent viscosity and smear from one batch to the next will keep things more consistent in the bbl.
Back in the 1980's,I mixed my first batch of "Pine Tree Green". That was 1 lb. of beeswax,13 oz jar of petroleum jelly,and 2.5 oz of Amsoil 100:1,2 cycle lube. The color came from the 2 cycle oil.
It still works great and I have approched 2200 fps in a Contender"Super 14".
Lately,I have cut the PJ back to 10 oz and it still works,the next batch will be 8 oz.
I loves to spearament.
I currently do use candle wax, its a mix of soy wax candles (mostly) and some paraffin wax candles. I melted it all together (my wife started saving me wax puddles from her smell pretty maker) and dip lubed some 480 Ruger boolits.
They dipped well and shot well with no leading and left a pretty smell after being fired. I noticed a few weeks later that the extra boolits I dipped and sized the lube was flaking out of the lube grooves.
The problem was posted here and the result was add vaseline and maybe some ATF. Well I did add 1 small jar of vaseline and 1 oz ATF and now the lube doesn't flake out of the lube grooves.
Still no leading, shoots the same and smells pretty when shoot.
So in part you can use candles just make sure you know what the make up of the candles are.
Note: Some people are allergic to paraffin burning, soy candles and other natural ingredients candles are out there.
scented candles do smell nice when fired if you get the right ones.
i remember making a say wax lube with a scented candle mix the wife dubbed it butt-crack lube, not the exact word she used but it did smell like that.
vanilla,coffee [some],and angle food cake are nice smelling though.
soy wax will also feather out nicely [parrafin won't unless plasticized] but neither have the pore size [lube carrying capacity] that b-wax has.
runfiverun, what do you think of substituting an once of beezwax with an ounce of microcrystalline wax? The micro wax I have is softer and a bit tackier than beeswax and gulf wax. I was thinking of something just a touch softer for the colder weather. Would that work or would you just add more Vaseline?
Have you had a chance to test the velocity limit of this lube yet?
I make all my lubes the black powder lube is simple 4oz by weight of unbleached beeswax and 2oz Neatsfoot oil by volume and 2oz Murphy oil soap by volume and a cayon color of your liking. And my smokless lube is the same but I add 4ozs paraffin was by weight.
i haven't pushed the lube past about 2300 fps yet.
the micro wax i haven't tried, give it a shot.
i have added soy wax and micro-wax to b-wax before and generally like to keep them below @ 25%.
a softer wax like you mention won't change the lube too much,i'd cut the vaseline back by a tsp though untill you see how the final product comes out.
Made a batch earlier this evening. I substituted 1 oz of beeswax with 1oz of micro-wax other than that I followed your recipe to the letter. It is soft, pliable and quite tacky. I've got the pan with boolits cooling as we speak and will hopefully have some loaded to shoot Thursday. I won't be pushing the velocity envelope with this, just testing against a known accurate load that I've tried 2 other home made lubes on in my 300 blk bolt gun that runs around 1850 FPS.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...implegreen.jpg
With POE and beeswax, never judge the consistency right away, it takes a day or so after being blended to decide how it's going to be.
By the way, your lube equipment and work area is way too clean, you must be new at this. :kidding:
Gear
:mrgreen:
That part that the pan is sitting on is a pull out writing surface. It's on that because there's no room to set it on my desk.
it will firm up a little over night with the origional recipe but remains pliable and tacky.
i have a batch just sitting in the garage that's been there for about a month now.
in temps from 85 to about 50 [i keep it somewhat heated and sometimes have a fire in the wood stove]
it is just lube sitting there,no oil lost and it's still pliable and slightly tacky.
if i want to put some in the lube sizer i just squeeze some into the approximate shape and shove it in.
it wipes right off my hands.
that's the same color i get too.
looking forward to some more range reports.
I made some today. Mine came out purple due to the blue two stroke oil. I bought a small crock pot from a thrift store, dumped in the ingredients and let it cook for a half hour or so till everything was melted and mixed. I stuffed my lubrisizor and will use it tomorrow.
OK, range report time. Real pleased with the performance of the lube. Shot as good as anything I've tried yet and was much easier to make than some others. I loaded up the 300 blk and just for kicks I loaded 5 rounds of 308 for the RGS. The boolit used was the Lee 312-155-2R cast from ACWW with just a touch of tin added and sized to .310. For the 300 blk I loaded a known accurate load of 15.3gr of H110 loaded to a COAL of 2.055. This load runs about 1850 FPS. For the 308 it was 19gr of 2400. First time trying this load so it was an unknown going in. Both guns have had several hundred rounds of jacketed and cast through them since the last time they were cleaned. All shots were fired at 100 yards.
Fist was the 300 blk. Not sure what was going on with the fist shot. First shot was way off from the rest of the group with the remaining 4 showing a typical group for this load. I fired off 5 jacketed rounds just prior to this since I wanted to see how it would group fired from a warm barrel so maybe that had something to do with it. Velocity was a little lower than normal at around 1800 FPS.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...implegreen.jpg
Next up was 16gr H110. This load is where things just start to fall apart with this load. It stayed true to form. Only 4 shots on target because I accidentally bumped the trigger sending one round into the berm. :evil: Velocity was right around 1900 FPS, typical for this load.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...implegreen.jpg
Now the 308 was the big shocker. This was the most accurate shooting I've seen from this rifle of ANY load. My only problem was I made the mistake of not removing the sling before I shot this group and I ended up with some horizontal spread as a result. Still, this load and lube shows great promise in this gun and I'll be loading more very soon. Velocity was right around 1730 to 1750 for all 5 shots. All in all it was a good day at the range.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...312-155-2R.jpg
if i go to 19 grs of 2400 in my 308 i have to back the primer down to a large pistol.
normally i will do much better with 17-18 grs and a large rifle primer [it works the same in my 0-6 too [shrug] just does]
positioning the powder a lil bit would have probably fixed those horizontal flyers.
have you tried aa-1680 in the 300?
just curious, i'm wanting to build a 10 twist one and push for about 19-1950 fps with either 1680 or 2230.
it looks like the modified lube is pulling some powder fouling.[indicating a wet condition to the muzzle]
how do the bbl's look?
The horizontal fliers were absolutely due to me not being able to keep a steady hold on the target. I should have stopped and removed the sling, but they were the last shots I fired and I was getting cold and hungry so I was hurrying.
I never even bothered to look at the muzzle. Both guns have flash hiders so I doubt I'd see anything anyway.
What did strike me as a bit funny is the lack of a cold bore flier with the 308. The shots that are outside the group are #2 and #3, left and right respectively. 1, 4 and 5 are the nice little 3 shot group. This is the first 5 shots that had been through that gun in over 8 months.
I have tried 1680 in the 300 but so far haven't had any luck at all with it. I seem to be in the minority on this too for some reason. Ligun has shown some promise but needs more testing to be conclusive. I still want to try some RE7, 2400 and AA9 yet. This 300 blk has monopolized all my casting and reloading time for a while now and looks to do the same for a while longer. :)
I had a couple of other test rounds that caused some leading today so I cleaned the gun tonight (300 blk) and ran a patch with ATF on it through the bore as you and gear suggested to get it ready for it's next round of testing. The weather here has taken a turn for the worse for the next several days but I hope to get back out to the range soon for some more testing.
ETA: Describe "wet condition to the muzzle". Not sure exactly what that means. Pretend your talking to someone show doesn't have a clue what they are doing. :bigsmyl2:
Not sure if I messed up or not. Mixed up a batch of simple green today and tried to follow the recipe to the letter. I had two types of 2-stroke oil. semi-synthetic and full synthetic. After about three seconds of self debate, I decided on the semi. From what 5r5 has advised, I know that I'll have to let the final product sit over night to get a real feel for the vicosity. As of right now, the lube seems plenty soft and tacky, but the glide is not there. Smearing it between thumb and forefinger, the lube has a tendency to break up.
Hence my question. Do I need more vaseline or did I use the wrong type of 2-stroke oil?
What do ya'll think.
Thanks a bunch. especially to R5R for sharing this recipe with the forum.
Kirk
Kirk, getting the POE oils to "jive" with waxes can be a challenge. I don't know what sort of oils were in the semi-synthetic you used, but if the mix doesn't have the "glide" (I call it "smearability, where you can easily smear a blob down into just a faintly waxy film between your fingers), then there might be a compatibility issue with the two-stroke oil. Some oils plasticize the wax, some dissolve the bonds between the wax molecules making it different degrees of brittle and/or crumbly.
Ester oils, like Redline or the stuff Eutectic uses (Orange is all I can remember, help my rememberer somebody!) have the unique quality of being able to blend with just about any petroleum, synthetic, or wax without separating or getting crumbly. The Amsoil two-cycle lubes (which are PAO oils, not POEs, but have additives to help them blend with other stuff) will blend well with beeswax.
One thing I've found is that, over a few weeks time, some crumbly lubes tend to get "unitized" again. Might try remelting it for about ten-fifteen minutes and letting it sit a couple days, it might just be the solvent in the two-stroke oil (most are 25% aliphatic mineral spirits by volume) making it crumbly.
Gear
Gear, thanks for the help. That is all good information that I WILL use.
Kirk
So if one was to mix up a batch and accidentally use power steering fluid instead of ATF what would the result be?
Not that I did that or anything......... :oops:
Common power steering fluid (GM type) is polyglycol-based, similar to the stuff used in some hydraulic fluids, DOT 3 brake fluid, and antifreeze. Other than tending to absorb moisture, and possibly being hostile to cartridge brass or gun steel in the long haul, I don't know, never tried it in lube.
Gear
I was racking my brain trying to think of what the outcome would be, but you are right about the hygroscopic affect of brake fluid. I hadn't even thought about that. Looks like I'll throw this batch out.
I was mixing a new batch up today and following the original formula posted by RfR. I grabbed the wrong bottle (they looked identical) and didn't realize my mistake until I was putting things away.
kirk if after overnight it's still a bit on the parrafinic feeling side add some more vaseline.
that will give it a more cohesive/feathering feeling.
this lube is on the verge,it's fairly high friction.
adding more atf will up the "glide" but vaseline is the true b-wax modifier.
Fair warning for a newb question...
I'm in the prep stages for casting. I've got some range scrap I've turned into ingots. The folks got me a casting pot for Christmas, but I'm waiting until then to bust it out and use it. I should also be scoring a couple of molds for the holidays. In the meantime I'm poking around here and other places learning what I can before I actually start casting. So here is my newb question: is there any reason this lube wouldn't do well for pistols? I'm going to be casting and loading for my Makarov and my 9mm. I ask because I'm new and fairly ignorant, and it looks like everyone who has posted has used this with their rifles. Any thoughts or experience with lower velocity pistol rounds?
Thanks for any responses and for all the great info I've gotten so far from just poking around the forum.
Should work just fine.
i used some in my 9m last week.
i have issues with carnuba red under 40-f and was getting some leading with some test loads i was working with using it.
the simple lube cleaned everything up,and i was able to take the load up another 0.10 gr which brought the boolit holes in the paper up in line with my sights.
i'm still tweaking this lube a little here and there. [next addition xlox]
going the opposite direction from b.a.c. to make the lube a little more temp friendly and flexable.
Were do you guys get your lanolin? and what kind?
I just bought some from Randyrat. Heck of a guy.