No problem, just messin' with ya.
Maybe those guys got more experience producing metal items - license plates?:!:
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No problem, just messin' with ya.
Maybe those guys got more experience producing metal items - license plates?:!:
When I anneal 22 rf cases to use for jackets I use my outside wood furnace.I take a 2" pipe nipple and two caps,drill a couple of holes in one of the caps and screw them on loose.Fill with cases put them in the furnace and forget for a few hours,dead soft jackets. Frank C.
So my dad makes custom knives and has a furnace that clears 2100F. It has a rather sophisticated temperature control. If I want him to anneal these for me, what are ideal temps and dwell times?
I run my kiln up to 1,250 degrees with the brass, with cores installed, in the kiln. I turn it off and let it set unattended overnight. About 12 hours later it's still over 250 degrees inside the kiln when I open the door. The brass is annealed and the cores are melted inside them.
There are some pictures in Post #24.
Hope this helps.
Fred
IMOP once the entire brass case glows you are good and any longer is over kill. However long that takes via torch, BBQ, or Kiln or oven and you should be good to go!
BT
Brian, my friend BadLuther (whom you have sold some swaging dies to) left his entire annealing system here with me. It's a copy of your system, with the bbq grill, white bricks, same basket, etc............ I have a great system now for annealing. Thanks for making him do it!
Sure thing :)
Very nice of him.
BT
How about electrical resistance based annealing?
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...h_P1050770.jpg
It's a transformer that I re-wound for use in a spot welder. I'm controlling it with a switch in the video, but it can be controlled precisely with a timer or an IR sensor could be used to shut it off when the case reaches a specific temperature.
FYI: clicking on the image takes you to a video...
Awesome! Looks great for annealing the necks. You think you can get an entire 40 S&W case to glow?
Is this the method you use for you rifle brass? How have teh results been? It certainly looks great.
Good work!
BT
No, I anneal my necks this way:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...95#post1331195
I could make a similar jig for doing bullet jackets...
I played with ressitance for annealing the necks, but the problem is that the highest resistance area will heat first. So, if you don't have perfect contact with the case neck, it over-anneals certain points. I don't think it's as big of an issue when you're annealing bullet jackets though...
It could do the entire case if you put the contact points at the top and bottom of the case. The trick is to just make sure that the case is the highest resistance element in the system. You definitely don't want it to have a lower resistance than you wires, which is why you need to use heavy gauge ones.
That's some good stuff kombayotch!
For jackets I'm thinking flat copper plates on a clamp, parallel to each other,
clamp case with mouth and base on the plates, apply voltage.
(Copper less resistance than brass?)
When using a propane torch the heat spreads through the whole case,
I imagine once any part starts glowing you could shut off the current.
Just make sure the primers are dead!
Here is a list of conductivity and resistivity values for copper and it's alloys:
http://www.ndt-ed.org/GeneralResourc...ity_Copper.pdf
Yes, it is lower for copper. Cross-sectional area also plays a role in relative resistivity...
Just need to find a good strong material that isn't electrically conductive and is able to take the heat to make the rest of the structure out of. Of course, if your plates are large enough, they won't heat up as much. I've used wood isolator elements in spot welders with pretty good success.
It's very fast; I didn't apply power till just after the 8 second mark in the video. You can hear the transformer hum when it comes on.
Try a couple of graphite electrodes that conform to the case for that neck anneal.
Bore a neck sized hole in a piece of graphite & cut it apart. Should be able to get good heating around the neck that way.
For those of you considering this for jacket annealing, the low resistance part of the case is the head. You should make contact on the outside of the case at the head, and at the inside of the case head with your other electrode.
If the heating current passes through the case head, the thinner walls will heat by conduction.
Trying to pass the current from the thin case mouth all the way to the head will result in overheating the thin case mouth area long before the head gets hot enough for a full anneal.
B.
Ok here are a couple of questions. I was going to try to anneal 9mm cases in a self cleaning oven. How bad is it going to smell? I need to keep peace in the family. Can I fill a cast iron dutch oven with brass and do a good job on all of them? Is the Dutch Oven going to be food safe or retired to the gun room? Should I use a shallow pan instead?
You guys can save me a lot of experimenting
Thanks
The short answer is that you will not be able to get the brass hot enough in your oven. I anneal my Hybrid jackets by putting 25 to 35, depending upon size, on the small burners on my stove top and covering with a sauce pan used for that purpose only. Turn to high for seven minutes and turn off and let sit for three minutes then do the other burner and remove the annealed cases and put more on that burner and when the other burner has gone through its cycle, repeat.
If your oven is gas, like mine, it will do just fine. Most gas ovens "self-clean" at about 900 degrees.
650 will anneal brass, so your oven should work. I would just lay them on the bottom of the oven , loose, and try not to stack them. The idea is that the oven won't have to heat the dutch oven and then the brass.
If you can crush the brass mouth easily, after it cools....it is annealed enough to swage.
There is no smell or fumes to worry about.
Thanks. We are supposed to get a hard frost this week so I will give it a try. First try will be with a couple of hundred 9mms. Will post the results. One way or another we will all learn something. By the way ours is electric. Worst that can happen is the oven is clean for thanksgiving.
The best inexpensive and fast way to do it is an ordinary fireplace or an old unused grill just in my case.
I managed to anneal 10kg (16 000 pcs approx) in 3 hours period.
I was lucky just 4 of them fired :bigsmyl2:
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/1...g0330hx.th.jpg
For annealing bulk, all of the info here is great, This comment is for the beginner who wants the quick way to get practice brass for his dies. I pound several finish nails a little way into a scrap board, put the brass upside down on the finish nails and heat each piece with a propane torch till glowing and then quench so I can use em right away. Usually do 10 at a time and easy to dump by turning the board over a bucket of water. The color is not uniform but the brass is fully annealed and I can shine stuff up after the bullet is complete.
Caution:
I put a bunch of .40 S&W brass in a steel bread pan, and placed it on red glowing coals in my wood stove. I came back a half hour later, expecting to see annealed brass. I was horrified to see that the brass had melted into a glob.
Guess some air got in under the coals.
Has anyone tried a portable induction hot plate? You know the type where something metal has to be sitting on it to heat up. You could probably arange a fair amount on one.
The induction heaters available to the consumer will not heat brass. So the induction hot plate will not work for this.
B.
Would an empty casting pot work. Put a layer of brass sitting directly on the bottom and turn it on for an hour?
I use the Lee 20 lb lead dipper pot to anneal my brass for making slugs. I fill it all the way up, put a double layer of alumium foil on top, turn it to 8 on the dial and wait for 1 hour. I have a dial temp gage into the center of the pot and it shows over 850 degrees F. The 22 cases I do it it comes out great/soft.
Lafaun
Will a heater/cooker (sunflower propane heater) mounted in the bottom of a weber charcoal grill be hot enough to anneal brass? The cage on the top gets RED hot and I've already melted lead on the top of this and spilled some in there so this is useless for me to use in an icehouse *bangs head against wall*
I found a free weber on Craigslist and my leaded up heater cooker maybe throw some firebricks in there somewhere
What do firebricks do exactly?
Does that mean it traps heat and keeps it contained in a smaller area?
Your setup should work just fine without the bricks. I set my brass in a stainless steel colinder and place it over a turker fryer burner. I will sit there and toss the brass to ensure it gets even "cooked" if you will. When you have discolored your brass from the heat you are pretty much done. To check, just take a piece and try to pinch it in your fingers. if it is easy to pinch, your good.
I can't help but take pics all the time now.
That glowing case got a little too hot, was waiting for the "shutter" to click.
This method is easy, with minimal equipment. Best done in a shadow or a
semi-lit area so you can see when the case head just starts to glow (not cherry red).
The rest of the case will get soaked with heat.
Goes pretty quick except for setting all the cases on their mouths.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-G...%2520brass.jpg
Try taking the styrofoam organizer from a box of large caliber rounds and placing the cases in it and flipping them onto your surface. All lined up nice and pretty waiting to be fried.
I was just going to say the same thing! Nice work guys.
BT
Dang! That's just what I do for pics of loaded rounds,
use an ammo box and a book or metal sheet on top,
flip it all and remove ammo box.
So why couldn't I apply that technique to empty brass?
Maybe I like tedious tasks.
Or one of my transistors is fried...
Quick question: annealing 9mm
My GAS oven has the self cleaning cycle with the options of 2hr, 3hr and 4hr IIRC.
Would you think shutting it down after 1hr would be sufficient for annealing the 9mm brass?
I have down a 11x17 cookie sheet full of 22lr for 2hrs and they come out soft so that you can crush the mouth between your fingers with little effort
Thanks!
when I first started out I used to self cleaning oven method. I was not happy with the result as most came out annealed but not all. I use a cast iron pan on a turkey fryer watch my color when the brass in the pan is glowing red i turn it off or dump them in water.
So, you just wait for the pan to glow and not the brass? Do you have to wait for the entire pan to glow or just when a part of it starts?
I have been keeping my eyes open for a reasonably priced used kiln but haven't found one yet. This would have other uses along with annealing.
no the brass. IF the cast iron is glowing red your going to have brass soup
I did the 2hr deal in my gas oven cleaning cycle and I do not think it cooked long enough. I had some I could with a little effort crush the mouth but others I could not unless I did it against the loading bench. There were 200 on the cookie sheet and none were touching the others.
Not at all like the 22lr I did this way, every one of them were soft!
It's not time, it's temperature. You really need a temperature that's higher than most ovens will get to.