Nice thread, I just made my first batch today and might have messed it up as the final product is real thin. How long does it normally take to thicken up?
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Nice thread, I just made my first batch today and might have messed it up as the final product is real thin. How long does it normally take to thicken up?
BC, Thin is what you want. It will thicken some when it gets cold. I had read that some compared it to looking like brown cold cream. Where I live it gets very hot in the summer and doesn't get that cool at night. My mix never got thicker than "thin & runny" until I went out the other day when the temp was in the 40s. It was so thick it would not even run out of the bottle. Setting the bottle in hot tap water for a few minutes thinned it right up for use.
Thanks SciFiJim.
I've been a lurker on the board for a long time, and I still have a lot of reading to do before I've absorbed all of the information here...
I tried to mix up a batch of this lube tonight, and the results were... :groner:
I didn't have a large pot to use, so I used a shallow cake pan on my Coleman stove in the garage. I remember somebody saying that Johnson's Paste Wax was flammable, but I don't recall anyone saying that it is like surface of the sun, 10 megaton nuclear blast, weapon of mass destruction explosive...
Obviously it caught on fire. I have a small garage (barely big enough for my wife's Civic, which luckily wasn't there at the time. I didn't have anything close to hand to smother the flames with, so I ran back into the house to grab something. By the time I got back, the smoke was so thick that I could barely see. I grabbed my respirator, stumbled back over to the stove, and finally got the fire out.
For the time being, I think I will stick to the lee mule snot thinned down with mineral spirits...
KCG - Try mixing the JPW and A/Xlox without cooking down the JPW and without the mineral spirits. If you don't cook them out, there are enough solvents in JPW to do the job of the mineral spirits. Then heating the bottle in hot water will give you a thin and runny mix to coat with.
[smilie=b:
[smilie=b: [smilie=b:Quote:
on my Coleman stove in the small garage (barely big enough for my wife's Civic
[smilie=b: [smilie=b: [smilie=b:Quote:
I didn't have anything close to hand to smother the flames with
:killingpcQuote:
For the time being, I think I will stick to the lee mule snot thinned down with mineral spirits...
*Sigh*
:coffee:
try not to "dry" your powder on a coleman stove. OK ??
Thanks SciFi, I'll try that for the time being until I accumulate some more suitable equipment.
For the other "helpful" comments, I apologize for being the first individual to ever fail to think something through completely. If those sort of responses are SOP around here, I think I'll find another place to hang out.
KCG,
Glad you're okay. I would have probably tried the same method you did, had I not already known about a double boiler (pot of water on the direct heat and the substance that I want to melt in a suitable container in the boiling water)!
Sometimes, when we are trying to do this stuff on our own, we get caught up in just getting it done, and unfortunately don't have all the info that we should have - on the other hand, if we waited until everything was perfect, we would never try anything new. I have certainly done some dumb stuff, so I'll not cast the first stone!!
Stick around, there are some great people here!!
Take care!
Don
Hey man the guys around here are just jerkin your chain, please don't go we all need to stick together. If you don't want to be alone, I'll post some of the stupid stuff I"ve done and it will make you look tame in comparision, trust me............<GRIN>
...........do me one favor though, trash the coleman stove and go to Walgreens and buy a one burner hotplate for $9.99 eh??? I got one the other day with a three dollar off coupon for heating my molds. Personally I don't like Alox mostly because of the mess, but then again I use Marvelux to flux with and everytime I mention that I get barbeque'd..............
Art
Some do not think about what they say and are in the state of mind of jokeing with members because they dont mind being pick at for stuff they have done. Remember whats not funny at the moment is sometimes funny to you later after the you have clammed down and looked back at it. I myself have dont alot of thinks that to me were not funny at all and someone said something at that time would have made me fighting mad but after awhile it was funny to me also. And others here are just #$%#** and will always be a #$%** you have to look over some laugh at others and remember when its all said and done we all learn something if we keep a open mind. Thats about all I got in my bank of wisdom. Hope you hang around. A few suggestions that may help you on other projects dont ask how I know. You can remove wax lube from carpet with a old towel and iron, Lead dont come out of carpet without leaveing a burned spot, and if a project is not working right throwing in the yard and shooting it with several times will keep people that see you do wonding if you staple.
Sci-Fi, should the the mineral spirits should still be added after the Alox and JPW are mixed this way?Quote:
KCG - Try mixing the JPW and A/Xlox without cooking down the JPW and without the mineral spirits. If you don't cook them out, there are enough solvents in JPW to do the job of the mineral spirits. Then heating the bottle in hot water will give you a thin and runny mix to coat with.
One other question - everything is measured by volume?
If anyone looks at the bottom of the forum when you log in, you'll see how many people are logged in and reading. Almost always, over 60% are "guests" which means they may not be forum members. It also means they do more reading than contributing, which is more than fine.
With that said, this business of casting boolits is not a sewing club and its not a hobby or undertaking that should be taken lightly--especially so far as SAFETY is concerned.
To KCG,
I'm going to give you some tough love, but only because there will be other folks new to casting and lubing and the such reading and we do not want them to make your same mistakes.
You stated early on that you know JPW was flammable. Yet, you still cooked it over AN OPEN FLAME and in a completely INAPPROPRIATE container. You did this in a small, confined area and had NO FIRE EXTINGUISHER or any other retadents or material to put out a fire.
This was beyond dumb. This was DANGEROUS. This is like doing your smelting in the rain with hailstones coming down and then being surprised that the Tinsel Fairy showed up!
We have enough real and potential dangers in this hobby without adding to the list. They key to safe casting is to know the risks involved, and then minimize and/or eliminate them. I am glad you are okay and that your garage is okay. Also glad your wife wasn't at home at the time. Wives can tend to be far rougher on us than any of us here can be.
OK, with that said and put to rest. . .
The suggestion about a ten dollar hotplate was right on. You can find cheap pots at the Dollar Store or yard sales or even Wal-Mart. Us boolit casters are notoriously frugal and enterprizing. :)
I've found it easier to cook my JPW, then measure it by ounces to know how much LLA to add. Again, pick up some cheap funnels at the Dollar Store to pour your concoctions with.
:coffee:
ghh3rd - I will explain what works for me. Many find cooking the solvents out of JPW first works for them. I haven't found the need to.
MY method.
I use an old 11oz. dish-washing liquid bottle. Using eyeball measurements, I fill it about 1/3 full of Xlox and then fill it about another 1/3 full with JPW. I use a funnel for ease of getting it in the bottle. The Xlox poured fairly easily. The JPW had to be poked through the funnel with an unsharpened pencil. Cap tightly and shake vigorously to mix. I didn't add any additional mineral spirits.
During the summer it stayed a thin and runny liquid. Now that it is winter (50degree days) it is a soft creamy substance. I set in hot tap water for a few minutes to return it to thin and runny.
The picture of the bottle on its side shows that it will not run when cold (I just brought it in from the shed to take a picture).
http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/t...t/100_2211.jpg
http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/t...t/100_2212.jpg
Merry Christmas!
I got a question. I am using you 45/45/10 mix of Johnson Paste Wax, Liquid Alox and mineral spirits and I am experiencing some leading. Enough that after 6 shots it will be noticeable looking down the bore. I cleaned the barrel and then used a Lewis Lead Remover and got lead on the bronze screen. Quiet a bit.
The load is for a .44 magnum. It is cast from wheel weights and tests around 12 BNH. It is loaded with the 240 grain Lee tumble lube bullet. I am pushing it with 8.5 gr. of Unique. The load clocked 1020 feet for an average on my chronograph. I tried this in a Ruger .44 that is new and a S&W Model 29 that has over 8000 rounds through it.
Should I slow it down or speed it up? I am new at casting and need advice.
Thank you,
Greg
The first thing is, have you slugged your barrel yet? If so, what is the groove diameter, and what do the boolits measure at. An undersized boolit will lead not matter what lube you use.
I just started reloading this year. I used Lee alox on TL230grn 45@ .452" I lubed the in a small tube with lid, sized them, lubed again, and put them in another tub with a sprinkle of powdered graphite.
I had did some research on the web and found somewhere the biggest difference between dry moly and graphite is graphite conducts electricity. How true it is I don't know, but I tried it. It seems to work. I have no lead issues and have shot around 50 rounds of them. You'll get black fingers loading them though.
Note:
Shot in a Ruger KP345
The data I used was not factory data!
I also had a expirenced reloading partner!
I have no velocities but have shot them with the folllowing loads
5.4 grains Rex3 about same recoil as a factory load.
5.7 grains Rex3 Little hot, but know signs of excessive pressure.
These loads came from a internet source.
The 5.4 shoots good for me.
I made up my first batch today! I used the kettle to boil water and cut the top off some pop can's to melt in.
Poured the hot water into a pot, put the JPW into the pop can set it in the pot.
Put the LEE lube into another pop can and did the same thing then went to watch T.V.
Next commercial went to check and it was all liguified.
I used one of those small plastic disposable medical cup's to measure it all out and poured it all, one ingrediant at a time into an empty dish soap bottle.
Worked like a charm and I'm the proud owner of a bottle of rusty looking oily stuff!:bigsmyl2:
If you wish to cook the solvents out of the JPW how long does that take on a hot plate at 350F may I ask?
When mixing the 45/45/10 or skiping the MS and going 50/50, do you measure by Vol. ie, 1/4 cup Alox [liquid] & 1/4 cup JPW [solid] or melt the JPW and measure it as a liquid ??
I know I'm over thinking this just past training makes me want to know
Do you measure the JPW before or after the solvents have been burned off. When I tried it I started with 1/4 cup of JPW in my measuring cup and by the time the solvents burned off it was down to less than an ounce in the pan.
I added another 1/4 cup of LLA and then as it was cooling 1 tablespoon of MS. I haven't had time to try it out yet so I don't know how well it works.
Does the car wax have to be Johnson past wax? OR CAN i USE Kit carnauba car wax?
Thank's for straightening me out, I saw the yellow can and thought it was car wax.
I just lubed a batch of cast boolits today for the first time with straight Lee alox ,as a mater of fact I just cast my first batch of boolits today also. What is the benefit of adding JPW and MS to the ALOX?
I chose the tumble lube method because it seems real simple and doesn't require an expensive lubesizer. And also seems like less labor and mess than pan lubing I just hope it is as effective as lube in the groove.
I spent 2 hrs. today driving around town trying to buy Johnson's paste wax. Home Depot, Rona, Walmart, Home hardware, etc. I can find Trewax and Minwax, but no Johnson's. In my frustration I sent an email off to S C Johnson's. Within 4 hrs. I got a very nice reply from a lady named Connie, stating that they had discontinued the product, but would pass my request on. They would also be sending me a sample of alternate products:killingpc Just when I find a solution to my undersized boolits, this shows up. Have any of you bought JPW recently?? My guess is that there must be a substitute. Anyone have any ideas where to go from here. This recipe's too good to scrap. Ron.D
i did a search and found it on Ace Hardware's site.
George
The JPW does several things, one of of which is allows the boolit lube to dry faster and harder. Second, it negates the "tacky" or "sticky" or "gummy" tendencies that (too much) LLA can have. In turn, that reduces--or in my experience, eliminates--the buildup of lube gunk in your seating dies during the reloading process. And finally, the carnauba helps keep the bore clean and shiny and much easier to clean after shooting.
:coffee:
I checked several stores today but finally found a shelf full at a grocery store. Most retailers told me that "they quit making it". I'm new to casting and I am 60+ years old. What would be considered a "lifetime supply". I don't know how far this stuff goes so I bought two cans just to be on the safe side. Anyone think I need to buy more???; its on the shelf.
I don't know what would be a lifetime supply, but if someone could send me a couple tins, I'd be happy to pay that plus shipping and consider that I still owe them a favour. A hundred 35 cal boolits from any one of 4 molds or something else of interest. Ron.D
The Home Depot in Aurora, CO had several cans so I got one of them. The S.C. Johnson website has a section (http://www.scjbrands.com/mailorder/) where you can mail order products that are obsolete or hard to find. This may be of use if your local stores are out.
I think it is a waste of time and $$$ to use Johnson paste wax since you are removing the solvents anyways.
Look here:
http://www.freemansupply.com/MSDS/sc...onpastewax.pdf
Just buy pure Paraffin and Carnuba & mix it yourself.
from 10mill: "I think it is a waste of time and $$$ to use Johnson paste wax since you are removing the solvents anyways."
One minor thing is that the isoparaffinic hydrocarbon solvent is composed of hydrocarbons with 9 - 12 carbons (medium naphtha). They're waxlike themselves, and won't completely cook out. They're also not available at the hardware store (at least as a solvent).
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that a single can of JPW, used at 45% to coat boolits with a film which should be so thin as to be barely visible, should last long enough that another equally ingenious caster will find another off-the-shelf solution long before your JPW runs out.
I'm enjoying this post immensely. When the weather warms up and my ballistic lab (garage) warms up I think I'll make up a big batch of this stuff. I've been just warming up the boolits in a steel coffee can and pouring them into a cut out windshield washer jug with a couple globs of JPW. A little agitation coats the boolits and they cool on a sheet of waxed paper. Works fine so far. I haven't pushed the velocity at all yet. We'll see what Spring brings.
As far as burning JPW, what former G.I. among us hasn't wrapped a coat hanger around a can of it and set it on fire? Makes it much easier to dribble on the floor for the buffer to go over.
Heck, before my wife straightened my *** out I tried to boil a pan of vegetable oil on the stove to make some freedom fries. Needless to say, you're not going to get it to boil before it catches fire. Well I just didn't know. I carried it out to the patio and laid a board over it to starve the fire of oxygen. I mostly just wanted it out of the house.
It pays to have a bit of a thick skin when participating in these internet forums. The exchange of information and services on this particular forum is among the best and makes putting up with some of the more abrasive members worth your while. If you were speaking with them face to face you'd probably see that they are OK guys, just really adamant in their beliefs due in large part to many years of experience. It makes little difference to me whether "some guy on the internet" thinks I'm a retard. He's not in my food chain. I freely share anecdotes of my screwups partly because they're often good for a laugh and partly in the hope that someone avoids doing the same thing. All in all this is a great place to hang out.
Paul
pjh421, I made a rather large batch last night and as I was melting the JPW, I recalled having smelled this before but it took me a while to remember where. Back in the "Black Boot" army one of the tricks to get the boot polish to "soak in" was to ignite a light coat of polish on the boot. It was just enough to flash and burn for a second or two but it served the purpose. Smelled just like the lightly smoking JPW. BTW, the lube seems to be working well. I just haven't had time to load and shoot yet.
Have read this entire thread with great interest!
As a "Black Boot Army" vet (1981-2005), I particularly enjoyed the last couple of posts. PJH421, Duckhunter & I should get together & see if we can replace JPW with Kiwi black polish. . .light the top of the polish & pour the resulting liquid in with some LLA & mineral spirits & shoot black bullets!
OK, I'll calm down now. . .I just started casting last summer, and quickly went from straight LLA to the 50-50 LLA-MS, which did wonders for the entire TL process. Will try Recluse's recipe to see how she does! I'll also track down Buckshot to see about a push-thru sizer for my .38S&W's at about .360.
Thanks for all the tips. If it weren't for this forum, I don't think I would have dared get into casting, but so far I've found answers to every problem here, to include the several self-inflicted ones!
Oh yeah, a Bic lighter, some cotton puffs and a can of Kiwi and we spent many an evening in the barracks polishing boots. Not exactly real fond memories. :)
LouisianaMan. . . every time I see that, I keep hearing Doug Kershaw stroking his fiddle and alternately crooning and belting "Louisiana Man" to wild-eye clapping Cajuns everywhere.
Man that boy can flat play a fiddle--not bad on the squeezebox either.
:coffee: