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And, is liquid paraffin a "mineral oil" suitable for lubemaking? ... Yes, it's the same for the most part. Just a different layer in the distillation towers.
So far I've done fine with ATF, but would Baby Oil be better? ... No, unless a better smell is justified. However, ATF has some synthetic slickies that you won't get with just plain ol' mineral oil, paraffin, etc. Is it better? Maybe, just depends on application.
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Incidentally on this lube topic, I found a comment a short while back about using commercial animal lard in bullet lubes. The comment was a warning about the salt or sodium content in at least some commercial lards, and the potential for damage in rifle barrels from this salt.
I took a quick peek at several brands in our local Albertson's store, and found none with any salt whatever on the table of ingredients. Therefore, it seems that if we just stay aware of the possibility and CHECK the label before buying, we should be OK.
This was interesting to me, since i expect to be making some blackpowder-type lube in the near future for my .45-70 Sharps. Any super recipes to recommend out there? Maybe I should start a new thread on the subject.
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Interesting post, BruceB.
I've been thinking of a way to remove the salts in lard:
Salt is water soluble but lard is not. I wonder if it would work to cook lard in a pot of water to free the salt. Pour out the water afterwards and let the lard solidify. Many cookings might be necessary before all the salts have been removed?
Another thought, can the salts be measured with an ohmmeter? Either solid or liquid lard. If there is salt in the lard, then maybe this can be measured. If so, then you can probably determine when all salts have been removed.
I'm not into BP as of yet, but I'm looking for a frontstuffer, we have a fairly active BP section in our gun club. (BP pistols, but several are interested in long guns).
utk
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Bruce, I specifically remember the discussion about coloring lubes -- seems like it was on the old Shooters board. I also remember hanging around the cosmetics isle at the local WallyWorld reading lipstick labels and all the young girls in town cruising by giggling..., more than likely wondering who that old fat guy was getting face paint -- prolly some closet drag queen.
Anyway, after all the info Felix gave us on all the stuff that could/would harm barrels, and finding most of it listed in the ingredients, I opted for FWFL sans hues. Just as well, as I am shooting well anyway. Besides, my favorite color is translucent. Maybe Felix will weigh in again on this one and tell us about crayons, too, as I remember that there might be a problem with some of the colors. sundog
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I would think a stop by the butcher (there is at least ONE good one in every county in oHIo) would net quite a bit of au natural lard. usually when we had a hod butchered a pail of lard was part of the package, most people do not use it for anything.
I used to score oxtails all the time from guys I worked with "what the heck did they give me THAT for ? " I just told them we fed them to the dawg...not that they make a delicous soup. My wife was raised on a farm and even SHE thinks it's weird to make soup from them, I guess there are both types of people....those that buy store bought meat and those that raise it and have so much they won't eat oxtails.
Bill
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BLACK POWDER LUBE --- A MODIFIED FELIX LUBE
BY Pigeonroost Slim (PRS)
NOTE: Try Emmet's lube first because it might be easier. ... felix
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78136: felix; a ponder about BP lube 02/26/03-9:14 AM Posted
by: prs
Hey Ho felix!
As you likely recall, I have put together a BP lube and
relied upon your good advice and e-assistance. In spite of
that; it turned out remarkably well. It works so well that I
hate to make changes; but I just have to 'speriment.
As with felix lube, my lube calls for the oils to be brought
to a heat level of "beginning to smoke". I believe this is
done to allow the soap to be incorporated more easily. Is
that correct? Is there any other reason to use that much
heat. The basic bar soap type that I use is quite hard, but
melts easily on its own. It is a product meant to be hand
milled and liquefied and blended with other ingredients to
make a final finished bar soap. I was hoping to be able to
just blend it in with the oils well warmed.
thanks;
prs
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78137: felix; a ponder about BP lube 02/26/03-9:54 AM
Posted by: felix
PRS, no need to use heat if you don't have to. If you are
using castor oil, and any kind of petro oil (mineral, not
veggie, not animal) then you have to heat the castor oil
mixed in with the mineral component. Mineral oils are the
culprit, plus those veggie or animal oils that are quite
similar in composition to mineral oils. The final leak test
over time is the only cheap way to decipher if castor oil
will stay put without being heated (polymerized). Please
allow me to have your current recipe, if not the board.
fmr72901atjunodotcom. ... felix
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78231: felix; a ponder about BP lube 02/27/03-2:42 PM
Posted by: prs
felix and the camp: What follows is a too windy explanation
of my lube. The stuff works great. It is particularly good
for action shooting with black powder because it keeps the
fouling soft longer than other BP lubes I have tried; which
is most of them. I have no idea if it is good for long range
buff rifles and such as I am not into that; yet! I am
working on tow new variants of this which hopefully will
give me a less expensive product that is just as good. I
will also lengthen the cooking time as I have found that it
tends to cure more when re-heated and cooled several times
as I re-fill my Lyman #450 with liquidated lube. Also, this
stuff is pretty resistant to melting anyway, yet remains
fairly soft even in cold weather; thus the cap'nball folks
like it too to place over their loaded cylinders. Smells
like candy, initially tastes like candy; but then ya get
that soap taste.. bleach!!!!!
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
Lube recipes, especially personal ones are subject to change
without notice – or with the maker’s whim. Some folks swear
by all natural food grade ingredients and shun petrol
chemicals. The old timers had things we can not get (or are
not supposed to get) just as we enjoy access to things
beyond their imaginations. Some good folks state their
satisfaction using lubes designed for smokeless powder
loads, even lubes containing allox such as the NRA formula
commercial bullet lubes. Others have contrary reports to
offer with such modern lubes in loadings with real black
powder. I am not certain that any of this topic has
application for those good folks who choose or must use
substitute black powders. I am also not going to lend my
support to any argument that only natural products or non-
petroleum based products are acceptable for black powder. I
have not personally used petrolatum (Vaseline brand
petroleum jelly) or paraffin wax, nor various silicones in
my BP lubes, but I have no doubt that some folks have done
so with success. I have tried many of the "natural"
ingredients, but certainly not all. This lube’s development
was and is an act of evolution; an ongoing process, and not
of an act of Divine intervention.
I shall share with you one of my renditions of a lube of
mostly natural things, at least natural in so far as
commercially processed goods can be. I currently use this
product in my bullet sizer/lubricator to fill the grooves of
home cast lead alloy bullets. The finished lube should be
just stiff enough to handle without mess, but soft enough to
perform admirably with black powder. This product should be
melt resistant enough to allow exposure to normal human
tolerable heat without seeping out of the groove(s) and into
the powder charge.
To keep things as simple as possible, lets make a batch size
of 100 fluid ounces. Don't worry about weight. Ingredients
that are not readily liquefied will be specified in common
volume measurements. A four quart stainless steel sauce pan
is a wonderful "caldron" for our sorcery. An adjustable heat
source such as an electric or gas range is very nice. Baking
mitts or pot holders are recommended. Cautious use of a
microwave oven can be an advantage, but great care must be
taken to avoid fire with flammable ingredients such as
beeswax. A double boiler is a great safety enhancer!
My basic formula, PRS Lube, is adapted from one I learned as
Emmert’s Formula. With Emmert’s, one takes a ratio of
50:40:10 where the first numeral represents beeswax, the
second shortening, the latter oil. I was taught to reverse
the portions of beeswax to shortening for cold season
shooting, if desired. This is an excellent lube when made
with pure beeswax, Crisco, and peanut oil. It tends to
separate over time. It can go rancid. Emmert’s may leave
something to be desired in fouling softening when it comes
to prolonged rapid fire use with black powder cartridge
arms. Some folks report an objectionable slime deposit in
their guns which they associate with the Crisco type
shortening.
PRS lube is similarly based upon the ratio of 35:35:10:10:10
plus three "adjuncts" to finish. Since we are shooting for a
100 fl oz batch, consider the ratio proportions to be fluid
ounces. The proportions, in order stated are beeswax,
Crisco, glycerin soap base, anhydrous lanolin and vegetable
oil mix. The adjuncts are 25 drops of oil of peppermint, two
tablespoons of stearic acid granules, and 0 to ?5 soap
making dye chips. The soap dye is a non-functional addition
and color of dye is up to the maker; I use bright yellow. I
do not know what the carrier ingredient of those die chips
is; hopefully nothing which will detract from our lube’s
performance. I have noticed no derogatory effects.
I hear your gasp! "Keep it simple?", you question as you
ponder that onerous list of ingredients in the long "ratio"
listing. Such is life. Beeswax is the carrier and binding
agent. I believe it has some lubricant quality in its own
right; although I have noticed some folks disputing that.
Beeswax certainly helps soften black powder fouling when
consumed in or exposed to the combustion. The best bulk
beeswax is sold by beekeepers as "cappings grade" wax. The
Crisco blends with and softens the wax. Its a good
lubricant, but more than that it gives additional moisture
to the mix when exposed to or consumed by the closed
combustion of our black powder. As mentioned above some
folks report Crisco to have left a scum fouling in their
barrels, but I have not noticed such. The lanolin is an
extraordinary lube. It has abundant moisture to offer when
combusted in our irons. Its cost may far exceed that of
Crisco or otherwise we might do well to substitute even more
lanolin in place of the Crisco. Glycerin bar soap base is a
product available to those adventurous souls who wish to
easily make their own milled specialty bath soaps. It is a
very pure and pretty product; amber, translucent, and quite
hard. Its a rather harsh soap when pure and may have enough
active lye potential to convert some added oils and fats
into soap. The soap base gives our concoction body and keeps
our ingredients in emulsion; perhaps even converting the mix
partially into a soap as we stir the caldron. Perhaps the
use of soap in my lube explains why I have not noticed the
reported sludge some folks have attributed to the Crisco.
"Now", you ask, "what is this vegetable oil mix?" My oil mix
is equal portions of olive oil, peanut oil, and castor bean
oil. Olive oil has been with me all along, maybe I could
drop it, but I have not. Peanut oil hopefully lends its
great heat tolerance to our brew. Castor oil has that
mysterious odor and may help stiffen or modify, through
polymerization, the final product through the soap making
process.
Now for the adjuncts. The stearic acid granules are not
intended to make our mix "acid" in an attempt to counter the
alkaline nature of the fouling of black powder; although any
such help could be appreciated. This common soap making and
candle making ingredient should help further bind our
ingredients into a stable more firm soap-like blend and help
with preservation. The peppermint oil? I initially used
expensive essential oil for its great smell and clean feel
in the lube, but then noticed that it gave the lube a sticky
nature that I liked; it really clings to the grooves. This
peppermint oil may also lend some preservation qualities to
our product since it is an anti fungal and anti bacterial.
The soap dye chips are pretty much self explanatory. They
make the product pretty, but are unnecessary in a functional
sense. I go sparingly with bright yellow chips. If you have
a local candle supply and soap making store, they will have
all of this except the cooking oils, shortening, and maybe
the peppermint oil which you can get at the grocery or drug
store. Get the beeswax from your local beekeepers, the honey
they have should be quite a treat too. An online source such
as www.gloribee.com can also provide all the ingredients.
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CONTINUATION OF ABOVE POST.
THIS SITE LIMITS A POST TO 10K LINES!
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78377: felix; a ponder about BP lube 03/01/03-3:19 PM
Posted by: white owl
Prs - thank you for providing us with this recipe. I plan on
making up a batch to try for blackpowder cartridge rifle
shooting, but first need to ask one thing - Do you know how
well this lube works for pan lubing?
From the ingredients list it seems to me like it should be
OK for pan lubing. However, I know there are some lubes
that, once you make them up, they work fine in a lubrisizer,
but if you try to remelt it (as you need to do if pan
lubing), they are difficult to remelt.
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78526: A new BP lube is born; PRS- El Tigre 03/03/03-12:45
PM Posted by: prs
I kept to felix's usual good advice and got my oils smokey
hot for "polymerization". I also incorperated another
ingredient which supplies long branched hydrogen molecules
to disperse and bind oils and waxes (Zybor 103), sold for
use by candle makers. I modified my original PRS recipe to
incorperate abundant essential oil of sweet orange and I
threw in a bit of orange candle dye. I also used the Soy-
Based Econo wax instead of beeswax (but am gonna do a
beeswax batch too). A 100 fluid ounce batch is ready to use
now. It looks and smells great! If it's worth a hoot, I will
report back. Sure is pretty!
prs
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Database Is Now Broken.....
We Need A Mainframe???? Any Got One For Use?
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Coloring Felix Lube
Wouldn't colored crayons color the lube. Of course it would be stiffer, too. What about food coloring or Easter egg dye?
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Made my first batch of FWFL the first part of this week. Turned out great. I used about 2t of Johnson's past wax for the carnuba wax. Followed the above recipe other wise.
Thanks to Felix, Sundog, Waksupi, and everyone for the recipe and tips on how to make FWFL.
Now I've got to get some holes punched and see how it works.
Mmmm Mmmm... Ox tail stew. I see them in the super markets once in a while, Wildbird, they are pretty proud of them here.
Jim
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PRS BLACK POWDER LUBE, CONTINUED....
Lets stir off a batch:
In the SS 4 quart pot heat the 10 fl ounces of blended
vegetable oils to the point of "just beginning to smoke".
Add the 10 fl ounces bar soap base ( I liquefy mine in a
Pyrex cup in the microwave first - at your own risk there).
Add 2 level tablespoons of the steric acid granules, stir
until dissolved.
Add 35 fl oz Crisco (again, I pre-liquefy in microwave).
Cook for 20 minutes at a moderate heat level. Stir
occasionally.
Reduce heat to "low" because the remaining ingredients are
more fragile. Add 35 fl oz beeswax and 10 fl oz lanolin (I
pre liquefy in microwave with great care – beeswax is highly
flammable!) Cook at low heat for 5 minutes, stirring gently
and constantly.
Cut heat and add soap color dye chips, if desired. Stir
until dissolved/
Let cool until a skim of hardened lube just begins to form.
Add 25 drops peppermint oil and stir to blend.
Pour into your desired molds, containers, or straight into
the lube sizer. Hollow sticks are EZ to cast too. 8 ounce
jelly jars are handy to use because the microwave oven can
be used (at your risk) to liquidate just enough to refill
your lube-sizer with this liquid gold. Keep in mind,
liquefying of solid ingredients in microwave oven may be a
fire hazard. If in doubt, go by dry volume measure and cast
into hollow sticks for your sizer.
This has been an excellent lube for me. Its clean to handle,
it stays put in the lube grooves of bullets. Its fairly
soft, yet does not melt easily. When used with appropriate
bullets for black powder, the fouling stays soft and
cleaning is easy with plain soapy water or other traditional
black powder cleaning agents Enjoy your shooting of real
black powder and be safe!
Pigeonroost Slim: A man's word is his bond.
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NO, NO, NO .... WATER SOLUBLE dyes do not work! Use candle dyes, and the blue colors work best, reds second. I tried several greens and none were strong enough to work through the existing colors of the lube ingredients. Be careful of all of them, because adding too much has caused a coagulation problem thereafter upon cooling. Therefore, blue color can use the least amount, and will guarantee a blue color of some sort. ... felix
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BPCR lube
Try my "Junior Lube" for BPCR.
http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/lube.htm
It's easy to make. Bunches of guys make it and swear by it. I use it in two BPCR 45-70s with great success.
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BruceB,
Adding the wax from makers mark whiskey will color the wax a nice reddish brown. Or at least that is what it looks like to me, I'm mostly colorblind. You get the added benefit of finishing the rest of the bottle. Then you won't care what color it is.
I also add powdered motor mica to my lube but be sure to stir it as it stiffens to gravy consistency or it will settle.
ammohead
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I tried adding some blue candle coloring wax, and it came out ugly green sort of? I went back to just not adding any color.
But I did buy some vanilla candle scent oil, and added it. I like the smell of it. Don`t seem to hurt anything?
I do have a question to Felix. Do I really have to stir for an 1/2 an hour?
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I do have a question to Felix. Do I really have to stir for an 1/2 an hour?
No, you don't, unless the heat is up there. Instead, in your situation, turn the heat down even further, like to 120F, and let go for an hour or two, stirring every 15 minutes or so. Try this for a one pound batch or so, and then do the lube leakage test on the window sill. If no leakage, then you are good to go. You have polymerized the castor oil enough so it won't leak out. If it leaks, then remelt and go for an another hour at 120F. Everybody, keep this in mind: if you are not going to add castor oil, then the heating process over time will provide absolutely NO benefit. It's the castor oil that leaks, and nothing else. ... felix
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Try adding some shoe polish of the color or choice. Make sure it is a KIWI or some other brand that is not a polymer. Go by smell. If it smells like petro and not some kind of candy, then use it at the tail end of the mixing process with low heat, like when adding lanolin. Heat will destroy some colors, and that is probably why some colors just won't come out right. ... felix
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Felix; thanks for the reply. But I think, maybe you misunderstood me. I do use mineral oil. I just add a little of the candle scent for smell. Do I still stir for a Half an hour? Does it really take that long to mix well?
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If you are not adding castor oil, then you don't have to cook the castor oil with the petro oil(s). Cooking is for poly-ing the castor oil only, and ONLY when a petro oil is present, OR will be in the future when fine tuning the mix for an app. Keep in mind that paraffin, baby oil, ATF comes from petro oil.
A good technique is to mix castor oil and a petro oil at 50/50. Cook that, and store that in a bottle for perpetual mixing use. Now you don't have to cook the lube except just enough to mix all the ingredients for a particular batch of lube. ... felix
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Someone is apparently a regular seller of beeswax on eBay, this being the current version:
1 Pound Natural Beeswax 16-1 oz pieces (Item number: 8190685270)
Baby oil is apparently the right stuff for refilling a liquid damped marine compass. I don't know whether you would have to flush out the last traces of the toluene which is also often used. Alcohol is too liable to attack paint etc. Most of you probably don't need to know this, but those who do, would need it a lot.