Thanks for generously writing this manual, providing it online and asking us to share it. I've downloaded it and will be sharing it with others.
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Thanks for starting this new phase in the project. I have been wondering if there was an Ely process using more available components.
Thanks,
Mike
Marshall, It is good to see more posts by you. I wish I had your knowledge and intelligence. It is exciting for me to see your work. Thanks for posting this stuff. I just wanted to inform you (and everyone else) that I have been experiencing a good amount of cracked cases. I have been careful to load all the same so it is not due over loading. It is due to the cartridges becoming brittle. So I have started to anneal them. I have just annealed and wet tumbled a batch that I haven't finished loading yet. But so far they are even much easier to work with being softer. They size like a dream. Will let you know how they act when fired. I also got my hands on some Eley Primed cases. It sure speeds things up when you don't have to deal with unprimed, dirty, used cases. I have also been experimenting with powder coating the little devils. I am hoping to eventually get very nice Powder Coated bullets. I have had success swaging some semi-wadcutters and powder coating them. But have to retool for regular round nose bullets to be able to use them in the feed mechanisms of magazine fed guns.
Thanks Marshall. Nothing beats having a professional to get things done.
I think this one is a great addition for the reasons you gave. Of all the one you have given us, this is the one I'm going to roll with.
I don't know if this will be of interest to you but here are some pics of the primer in Eley primed 22lr cased that I got hold of from the early 80's. These cases were packaged in food seal plastic and the primer still works great.
Attachment 176482Attachment 176483Attachment 176484
I just read this for the first time. Sometimes I amaze myself by what I miss when reading stuff. Here I am trying to glean all this information from posts and books that I don't understand and you have presented it in an extremely well composed tutorial. This is exactly what I have been trying to find for the last 8 months. Thanks for your fine work Marshall.
If you want to safely make a priming mix you might think about the handling processes and the equipment design that will keep you safe.
I used to work for the largest semi-conductor capital equipment manufacturer on the planet.
It was founded by a chemical engineer who wanted to supply chemicals to the semiconductor manufacturers which was an emerging industry at the time. A couple of his chemicals were silane and arsine. Both are pyphoric and burn on contact with the air. His potential customers were very impressed by the design of his lab equipment which was designed to handle these materials safely. Instead of buying his chemicals they wanted to buy his equipment so they too could safely handle these guaranteed to kill you materials.
Safety can include lock out tag out. Fail safe valves. Redundant controls and back up systems.
The designs included a cabinet (box) built around the stick of gas mixing valves. If any of the 6 to 12
gas lines and valves had a leak the cabinet exhaust system would transport the gas out of the factory.
All transformer cabinets had locked access doors. Inside were clear lexan safety shields locking out the ordinary employees. Only qualified service electricians could open the clear shields. During the design of this equipment one of the last things done was to check the fit of the shields for "Darwin Holes". A Darwin Hole was any gap in the shields that would permit an employee to reach the energized circuits with a screw driver.
Helium though inert can suffocate you in an enclosed space so you have to be careful with it. The factory's helium purge gas is used to flush the atmosphere and remaining process gases out of a chamber before starting the next process. The helium keeps the inside of the chamber dry and clean.
An example of how you can screw up was one of our designs that had many gas line junctions in a common area. One of our set up employees crossed 2 sets of lines.
The helium line was supposed to be connected to a normally closed valve. Instead it was connected to the chamber which was connected to the factory exhaust system.
The employee went home and $500,000 of helium was vented to the atmosphere over the week end. This shut down the factory until a new supply of helium was delivered.
My employer paid the cost of the helium and the shut down.
In this case the design engineering group was held responsible. The gas lines were redesigned so none of the connections could be crossed up.
While the processes involved are very different, it is good to have ample warning about dangers. I have read many of the stories on the internet of accidents involving Armstrong mix. Indeed I have had it send me to the hospital. Armstrong mix was the common primer of the past. It was even manufactures on a large scale. A manufacturer in London had an accident in which stone blocks over a ton were thrown hundreds of yards and many people were killed. Many people have been killed or maimed by it through the years. When I work with it now, I never work with it unless it is wet. And then only in batches of less than 5 grains. The last time I used it I had about a third of a grain ignite on me...EVEN THOUGH IT WAS WET. Certainly that much did not harm me but startled me where my pulse definitely went up a lot. So thanks for the further warning. Can never be too safe handling dangerous material.
As I was not a chemist when starting to use this material, I was not aware of it's historical uses. I started using it after reading that it was being used as a primer in 22lr by the Sharpshooter company that produces a kit for reloading 22lr.
At that time I researched it in the internet and found a good deal of reference to it concerning it's potential hazards. I also had first hand experience with the danger of it as I had a mishap as a child making fireworks.
I checked again on the internet when writing my last post, a couple of days ago. I was rather amazed and disappointed to find that the information appears to be gone. I couldn't find any of the references to accidents with Armstrong mix in the past. Indeed even the word Armstrong Mix seems to have been purged from the normal search channels. Eventually I gave up looking. Why would Google or the powers of the internet purge Armstrong Mix? I don't like this development.
As far as citing instances of it being used as primer, I only know of the recent use of it that is documented on the internet. It was a surprise to me to hear you say that it was not used in the past. I wonder what they were using it for back then. There certainly were factorys producing it in volume. I am not a chemist. I am not advancing a new chemical or compound for a new use. I am one of many people who has learned that Armstrong Mix (in the form of toy roll caps) can be used for the explosive in primers. Indeed I would not even be using it now if I hadn't bought so much of it when first starting. I am anxious to move away form it to go to one of the fine non-corrosive primers that you have graciously shared with us.
We all appreciate you work and are grateful that you share it with us. Until reading this post, I had no idea the it was not used as primer in the past. Now that I can no longer find much reference to it on the internet, I cant even research the history and historical uses of it. If it is too dangerous/sensitive to be using as primer I certainly would like to know. I am sure that everyone else would also. I think that if the govt got wind of this they would take it off the market. Don't know if I care for that solution though.
From what I've read the Dreyse rifle used a red phosphorous/potassium chlorate primer mix. I'll have to dig out a few books I have stored away to see which one or one's have that information in.
If one has or can get red phosphorous, it would be better to use a nitrate like barium/lead nitrate instead of potassium chlorate for the primer mix.
With 25 year experience as a explosives technician... All i can say is, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.
But if you wish to make an attempt at a Darwin award... Then The History of Powder and Explosives By Dr Tenny L Davis is your safest bet.. Look forward to reading about you in the Obituary..
I can assume your referring to the Armstrong mix? I use the H48 mix and consider it very stable when handled properly.
At this point I think that I will just do my work and not post anything. If anyone wants to know what I am doing, PM
me. I have nothing significant to share anyway.
Have you messed with the H48 primer mix, Traffer? It is a good mix and is a very reliable mix. I tried the roll cap method and it took a month of Sundays to get enough to do anything. Not the case with H48.
I explained how I strip a roll of caps at a time in another thread. A roll of caps takes about 3 or 4 minutes. That is enough for 12 to 18 22lr primes.
FWIW, I recently purchased one of those "Prime-All" kits, just so I could examine it closely. The kit contains four ingredients, packaged in four separate plastic bags -
http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/a...psgbybkspl.jpg
L2 - 378 grains of white powder (potassium chlorate?)
L - 292 grains of gray/black powder (antimony sulfide?)
S - 172 grains of yellow powder (sulfur?)
S - 78 grains of tan granules
The kit's instructions refer to a "hardening agent" soluble in acetone, ethanol or isopropanol, which requires a 24-hour drying time. It appears that those tan granules are the "hardening agent". The granules are approximately half as dense as the crushed sand I have been using for grit, and I determined that they are (for the most part) soluble in acetone or alcohol. I'm guessing that the tan granules are dried shellac.
Since the kit contains no ground glass, it might be closer to the old FH-42 recipe.
So folks, It is OK to use caps for priming as long as you do it in a tedious laborious manner that is outlined about 8 times on castboolits. But don't dare use caps if you can do it in an efficient way. That make sense.