Run, if that's a link, it's not working - at least on my machine. Page and post number por favor? After 3.5 years of questing, it shouldn't be something we need to go spelunking for.
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it ain't a link.
Jons thread should be titled Gearknashers 68.1 lube recipe or sumthin along those lines.
here meant here on this site.
Bear with us Obi Wan and don't beat us too hard with your long-chain molecules. As with beeswax at high temperature, some of our brains scorch when the number of targets to track exceeds a certain number.
I went through the SL68 thread in its entirety last night and this morning. Synopsis as I grok it: The beeswax scorch issue has been solved, but it may not be a desirable additive in a truly Extreme system. The SL68.1 version is still classified among the lab coat brigade leading the charge and still undergoing review.
That about the size of it?
Bigslug,
I may not be the one you want a response from...
But, I don't think that is the case. That was Grump's conclusion at one point from his searching and reading. I've clarified my reasons for sticking with SL68B in my thread and I'm sure you've read it. Others have chosen to take a version of a SL (soap lube) and made it there own, mostly I suspect it having to do with what is readily available to them, or there own thoughts on what a wide-range lube should have. Really, the basic formula is about: 1/3 Micro-wax, 1/3 Ivory, 1/3 Vaseline, "some" Mineral oil as a softener and a little castor oil as the "slick" agent. As to the "lab coat brigade"(God, I hope that's not derogatory), I suspect the quest continues.
Jon
"Lab Coat Brigade" - not intended as derogatory at all. Much like the military officer's handgun, binoculars, and clip board, the lab coat is a badge of office among the hard research crowd. Now, if I had mentioned beanies with propellers on top, or referred to "propellerheads", THAT would be derogatory, although my inner 6-year old thinks it would make for a way cooler uniform.:bigsmyl2:
Have we settled on a source or sources for micro-waxes, and have we determined if multiple grades of micro-wax are necessary in the lube or if one will suffice? The thought process being that simpler is better if it can be achieved.
I hate to seem a scab-ripper or nagging freeloader, but it seems you've gotten near the point where the heavy cerebral lifting has been done, and that the best way to drive it home may be to increase the size of the pool of folks that are tinkering - and indeed making mistakes - with tweaks to the basic concept. Shakespeare has written all but the last paragraph of the sonnet - we monkeys in the room full of typewriters may be able to finish it off.
I don't think it matters.Quote:
source or sources for micro-waxes
Multiple necessary? ...While necessary is a strong word in this context, I'll say, I "think" so. There has been talk about the possible benefits of adding Paraffin as well, a high grade of paraffin, not Gulf wax. But I'll be sticking with SL68B.Quote:
multiple grades of micro-wax are necessary in the lube or if one will suffice?
I don't consider myself part of the Lab Coat Brigade. I jumped into this thinking SL68 was was the ticket ...and ended up with my own variant for previously stated reasons ...and consider myself one of the Shakespearean typewriter monkeys in your metaphor. So, If you want to join me, that'd be great.Quote:
near the point where the heavy cerebral lifting has been done, and that the best way to drive it home may be to increase the size of the pool of folks that are tinkering
AFAIC, the "Lab Coat Brigade" is an honorific reference to those who are doing the actual mixology and shoot-ology, referred to by the good Bigslug as having done the heavy lifting in this Quest.
Like another, I have taken to the lazy vulture circling and waiting for a morsel to pounce upon in recent months. I care not to take the effort to sort out the whys and various frictions amongst whomever that led to my most respected sources wandering off elsewhere with their posts, but an honest report must include that at least one of the players became a bit burned out and has spent much more of his recent time in family activities. Nothing wrong with that.
What I have gleaned is that adequate performance has been obtained with a single microwax (180 or 185F melt point or thereabouts) in the stead of the N-wax, but at least one of our guys continues to wonder if a blend of two or three others of nearby melt points might be better. I suspect that is seeking a mere incremental improvement.
Before last season's cold weather eased up, I had at least one report that basic SL-68 had handily passed all cold testing. I don't recall if that went below -10 F or so, but that's extreme enough in that direction for me.
I sought confirmation of the hot-weather testing ABOVE 100 F and had at least one report that there were no purge flyers, melt stability was good, and everyone using it was happy. Then someone started adding melted milk jug plastic...to some mix of some sort...
The Quest is fascinating and my conclusion is that original SL-68 does the job and the continued "tweak" experiments are driven more by "what if" curiosity than a need to correct performance deficiencies. And I can't even remember what the SL68.1 variant was. My understanding is that the lack of further sub-variant reporting here AND elsewhere is because none of them have brought any real improvement, and one or more were not as good as the basic formula noted above.
"SL" could also refer to "Satan's Lube" in reference to the 6-6-6 ounce ratios of one size of the formula, disregarding the addition of something as "+1" to the mix. That's the castor oil and/or mineral oil in much smaller amount(s)--and precisely the final detail I'm a bit nervous about if I decide to cook up my own someday. But I might be overcomplicating it a bit, since those two components appear to work well within a range of "salt according to taste" tolerances. I want mine to flow through the sizer at 70 F and never melt up to at least 150 F in my ammo.
So I don't check this thread all that often any more.
Some of these "lab coats" should be the variety with extra long sleeves and lots of stylish buckles.
The peanut gallery heard from. Heck, thay already wear bullfighter's "Suit of Lights."
AIRC it was the earlier SL series that had issues with the soap causing a coating in the barrel which led to some spectacular initial groups and then to vertical stringing.
I believe it was the same initial flowing I was seeing when I done the torch tests of the ingredients.
we started looking for ways to control the build-up, or take advantage of it being there [CORE condition] and make it a consistent condition.
we found it better to eliminate the whole thing entirely, and started looking at the waxes again since we found that the amount of oils in the lube really needed is super minimal.
and almost none is needed when a synthetic is used.
as we started looking at oil/wax relationships their roles started to become more clear and we gravitated more and more towards a modified wax base rather than a modified oil base.
those brutaalllly bashed hard wax 'shipping' lubes may become much more effective in the future, I got along with a slightly modified one for years.
Myeahhh...the ONLY hard commercial lube on boolits I bought instead of casting myself that EVER prevented leading was that blue-green stuff on the Oregon Trail/Laser-Cast ones. Can you dig, like 1350 fps out of a 6-inch .357 with 125-gr TC boolits??? I sure did. Only ones to lead less were not cast, the "Extreme" plated ones--the ONLY plated that were half-accurate (.38/.357 was all I tried) as compared to several _other_ brands of plated in a total of four diameters.
Thus I'm back to casting my own. Until I got lazy and used some marginal .40s, my own cast boolits do better than anything except the Oregon Trails, and in some loads mine are still better.
BTW, great to hear from you again, Gear! How's the Tribe?
Lazer cast uses the same lube everybody else [commercial] does.
it's just green instead of red, blue, or clear.
it only comes in one formulation and your choice of three different dyes.
the pushing them hard was/is the key to what you did working.
there is a lube lesson in that.
Come to think of it, I WAS running the 9mms between 1070 and 1170, the lightest .357s were about 1200 (fastest with a different powder were 1350+ depending on which barrel...), and IF I did .30 caliber 110-120s or so in the Carbine those were 1750-1850 or so... Didn't run the .380s until earlier this year and not enough down the pipe yet to really know how well the lube does in that short barrel, but they ARE accurate.
OTBC is still the ONLY commercial boolit that temps me to not cast my own, though the "Extreme" plated ones have shown promise but plated are sorta sui generis.
Real shame those pictures are gone. Gear was making Smurf lube here, but the same basic process is used to make pretty much all soap lubes.
Don't suppose the Powers That Be could go back through the archives and restore the pics from an old back up?
Ah well... there's still some important temps listed, as well as a pretty good tutorial on making soap lubes.
Sadly, when software is updated, some times unfixable glitches happen...one time we lost a bunch of images, and they are GONE for ever.
I have some photos in my instructions.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...how-to-make-it
Jon, thank you!
That is exactly the thread I've been trying to find. Very much appreciated.
Edit: It looks like your pictures fell victim to a forum software upgrade, too, darn it.