I load on a Dillon 650 and I'm pretty sure the powder would be spilling over the top with a double charge. I'll say it would be next to impossible.
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Sounds good, just thought I should ask.
40 caliber is rather sensitive to pressure spikes, compared to other calibers.
Culprits can range from barrel leading increasing chamber pressure, fast burning powders, and too strong a crimp that interferes with headspacing. I have heard of a taper crimp just strong enough to jam into the throat and cause KB's with jacketed bullets.
I'd also have a look at your case neck tension that may be appropriate with correctly sized lead bullets, but weak with undersized cast. 40's are again very sensitive to pressure spikes and the force of slamming certain bullet profiles into the feed ramp could seat the bullet just deep enough to be dangerous.
Could be a combo of the above, glad to hear you're alright and not missing fingers.
Oddly for all the flak the glocks catch for KB's the shooters are usually stunned but rarely hurt, where I've seen pictures of 1911 KB injury that were more severe from metal fragments.
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Patricklaw, I think I would stick with those Lee slugs you were having such good success with from now on!
I have seen that odd sort of case failure before. It was in once (and I do mean once) fired S&B brass. I'm positive it wasn't over loaded. Can you tell the brass brand?
Cat
Not really an "odd sort of failure"; that's exactly what happens with excess pressure and an unsupported chamber. It's very easy to duplicate (if you were so inclined) with any brand of brass you might want to try.
That severe leading can certainly raise pressure to the point that it's a problem. Of course, what nobody talks about is that the same load probably would have leaded just as badly in a conventionally rifled barrel too. The takeaway here should not be "don't shoot lead in Glock barrels", it should be "don't shoot a bunch of rounds that lead badly without stopping to clean the bore".
Two points of discussion.. First and most important, do you have any more of those same loads assembled? If so, can you perform a push test against the side of your load bench or a vise or some solid object and see if you can manually push the boolit any deeper in the case?
(edit: if you *do* find any that move even the slightest bit, PULL these boolits so they aren't fired!)
The 40 runs at quite a high pressure to start with, and if you can set the boolit back even .010" by pushing it agaist something, then this is likely what caused the over-pressure event that blew out the case when it was fired. If there is not enough neck tension in the brass, and this can be like one or two or three cases out of a couple hundred that will push back and the rest of them will resist setback on the bench, I'd say you found the most likely culprit.
It could have happened as the slide stripped the boolit out of the magazine and pushed it into the feed ramp, could have also happened if for some reason one boolit may have been slightly oversized enough to jam in the barrel throat once there was enough lead built up, and the slide shoved the boolit deeper into the case when the gun went fully into battery.
With the 9mm and 40 at max performance, even the slightest amount of setback can be disastrous. As little as .010" in a 9mm can spike pressures to 60k easily.
Second point of discussion, the barrel doesn't have much throat in it, and you want to size to .402" I would be glad to take a look at the barrel and take a pin gage to it and measure the freebore, measurements may find some interference with the boolit shoulder, barrels I have throated don't lead anywhere near as badly as the photo shows and they feed anything and shoot lights out afterwards.
Hey Dougguy, you do any work on rifle throats?
I had one case blow on me in my G22 with factory barrel and I only shoot a few hundred rounds thru it. I also have over 12k rounds in the same gun with a Storm lake barrel and never a problem. I only use the Lee 175gr tc bullet for all by 40SW.
That lot of loaded 40 contains about another 175 rounds. They were originally seated with an RCBS die, carbide set if it matters on the seater, and crimped with Lee FCD. I have checked them and there is NO movement in the bullet. Setback is highly unlikely.
To my knowledge, the barrel is a factory Glock. I have two other barrels for it, a lone wolf 9mm conversion and a Glock 357 sig barrel. It's fast becoming my goto handgun. (Nothing special, ugly, black. It just works.)
I really appreciate the offer to look it over but this was such a small lot of ammo that I'll never load again. I'll shoot the rest up in my Para 1911 and that lot of boolits, that I didn't make, will be gone forever.
What about plane base gas checks? Will they help?
They might help, if you are shooting stout loads and/or your lead is on the soft side. If your boolits are undersized and/or the lube is just not up to the task they will not do you any good. Size is generally key to successfully shooting boolits out of autoloaders.
Wanted to add this little bit of info about how I load for my glock, as it has changed rather significantly over the years.
I now size the mihec 125HP/135 solid to .359, 50/50 pure and coww alloy with tin added for fillout, water dropped into ice bucket.
I get fantastic accuracy at 25-35 yards, groups size of half a fist, and at 10 yards I consistently and quickly shoot dimes, if not one hole groups.
Have shot the MP 147grHP I designed/honchoed and 155gr solid with similar results or better group sizes.
Used to chase hardness, but now I find I get better lubrication that the grease grooves can compress, and the lands/grooves are better filled.
The real key to 9mm loading is the expander. I will be writing RCBS and sending appropriate dimensions similar to the 38sw lee expander, so that I don't wear out my shoulder using it progressively on the pro2000 as I have been.
Best of luck to casters and reloaders.
Hi, I have a Glock #20 that I load with some molded Lee 150 grain lead that I load with 7.2 grains of Unique at 1,300 FPS and 562 FPE,
I have two barrels, the stock Glock and a Storm Lake which was purchased because of all the hype on leading the original barrels. I feel after putting thousands of lead bullets through both, I have concluded that if you do not clean your barrel on a regular basis, yes, you will have problems up to bursting your barrel but if you clean your barrel on a regular basis, and I clean mine after every shoot, you would be okay.
I purchased a Lewis Lead Remover from Brownells, but neither barrel has leaded enough to have used it as normal cleaning with a brass brush and some elbow grease has solved the issue.
I will finish by saying that common sense, checking the condition of the barrel, and cleaning (hard) on a regular basis will do. Glock knows that a dirty, leaded barrel will cause problems but not one that is cleaned on a regular basis, but they can't rely on customers doing that so they, as policy, state emphatically, don't shoot lead in our barrels!
Today I had some time for shooting and decided to shoot up the last of my Lee 356-120-TC sized to .356. They were loaded over my usual load of 3.8 grains HP-38. I shot them out of my Glock 19 with both OEM and Storm Lake barrels. The Glock barrel shot them pretty well for the first ten rounds, then the groups opened way up. Switched to the Storm Lake tube and groups immediately went back to normal, actually better than the Glock barrel did at first. Upon cleaning I found quite a bit of lead in the Glock barrel, no big surprise there. If there was any lead in the Storm Lake barrel I couldn't see it, just powder fouling. Both barrels cleaned up easily, not surprising as both have shiny bores.
All of my 9mm boolits will be sized to .357 from now on. I've always had better luck with boolits on the fat side in every gun I've tried, not just Glock. I'm currently building a Glockenstein 22 with an LWD barrel from a gent here. Will probably size to .402 for that one.
I have a Glock with a .402 barrel. It's the only one; the rest are .400 or .401. But you never know 'till you measure do ya?
Cat
what was the weight and diameter of your boolits? Im having a hell of a time with my G19 and key holes
Nowadays I use the Lee 356-120-TC sized to .357 with Randy Rat's Tac-X. They weigh around 122 grains cast from range scrap. I shot up all the .356 slugs as I now size to .357 for all my 9mm and .380 pistols.
I know this is an old thread but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway. I bought a GLOCK 23 when they first came out. At that time about '92-'93 nobody said a word about lead bullets in 40 cal GLOCKS. Also FEDERAL Cartridge brought out a 180gr SWAGED LEAD 180GR load. I put 10 boxes thru my GLOCK 40 with just a bit of leading. I cleaned the gun after every 100rds. Shot some Cast bullet loads using the LYMAN #40143 sized .401, neither load gave me decent accuracy. I bought a WOLF bbl when they came out. Not just to try lead bullets again, but to get a tighter & better supported chamber. No more "GLOCK smile". Been shooting that LYMAN bullet & the LEE #401-175-TC, no leading in the WOLF bbl with either bullet & NO GLOCK SMILE. Bought a 9mm WOLF conversion bbl too. I use the LYMAN #356402 & LEE #356-125-2R sized .356, no leading in that bbl either. I must have put 20,000 jacketed & 10,000+ lead through that old model 23. Never a problem of any kind. Good maintenance & good loading practices.
I will say that I am no glock fan. I have no idea what the models mean so bear with me. I don't even like to shoot the things. I do cast a lot of bullets and friends shoot em. Again.. since I will never own one I have no idea what these models are but they are full size... one is 9mm and the other a 45 acp.. These are friends guns. I had heard the whole glock and lead bullets thing and did not want to load any ammo for these guys. Neither one of these guys really knew/knows how to clean a gun even tho glocks come apart pretty easy to clean.
So I get a chance to take down both guns. The 45 had shot lead bullet reloads lately. looking at the barrel I said "see that?" see what he said.. The leading.. nope he did not see it... not unusual for guys who don't shoot lead a lot.. Regular cut rifling is easier to see the buildup. On the glock it was like a thin smear. It was a real bear to get out. It came out in long strips like half an inch in some cases. Not sure if it affected pressure in any dangerous way or not. but it was there. Well.. the guy still had a couple hundred lead bullet reloads. I thought maybe an old trick I used to do where you shoot some jacketed after a session of cast might help so we tried that... it did seem to work fairly well with little leading in the bore.
Fast forward. I got into Hi-Tek coating. Soo... while my 1911's never really leaded anyway they are even cleaner shooting the coated bullets. I had a bunch of 9mm loaded up for my Browning BDM so we tried em with the 9mm glock. So far... I am cautiously optimistic as it did not leave any trace of lead.. Haven't tried the 45 yet. And yes. I realize it is only two guns and I don't even know the models but I have to conclude that if you are not meticulous at cleaning guns then shooting cast and lubed bullets from your glock is ..........iffy? And that shooting a mag of jacketed after a session might just help with cleaning a leaded barrel.. other than that I am in the dark.
Oh... the micro groove Marlin.. not all poly or micro or early black powder versions of this rifling are created equal. The micro groove seems to not lead.. it also is not as accurate with lead bullets tho as cut rifling in basically the same gun. for what that is worth.
lazs
" I have to conclude that if you are not meticulous at cleaning guns then shooting cast and lubed bullets from your glock is ..........iffy?"
No. Obviously you didn't bother to read this thread, did you. I'm not going to just hand you the easy answer since you didn't earn it and obviously want to believe your pre-conceived notions about Glocks you wouldn't believe me anyway.
I will tell you this: shooting bare lead in any rifled firearm without paying attention to what you're doing is iffy. Cleaning, meticulous or otherwise has zero to do with leading.
Cat
Sorry if I offended. I did not say that cleaning had anything to do with leading. What I actually said was that lead builds up and if you are not meticulous about cleaning then you may end of with something that is iffy.. by that I would mean pressure. I have no preconceived notions about any gun I do not own or shoot. No idea what you meant by that. It is not me saying that glocks should not shoot cast bullets. it is the manufacturer and it is the thinking of a lot of people.. . cut rifling barrels made to shoot lead in glocks are being made. They are billed as being safe for lead.
Soo... you want to get mad at someone get mad at them for their 'scam' bilking you out of your hard earned dollars or the factory for starting this whole vicious rumor in the first place. Now. if you are angry at me for simply not liking glocks that is understandable but has nothing to do with what I wrote about leading.
I will say this tho... I think that if a person tells others to ignore the warnings of the manufacturer and some real life examples then that may be a little reckless...
the whole thing has become moot to me (so far) since I started HT coating my cast bullets. Just so you can be angry at me tho.... I still won't own or shoot a glock.
lazs
Ferguson sent me some cast when I bought my first Glock, a used model 17. I never had any leading with that pistol. Sooo. I got a Model 30 in .45acp. I used the same design boolit, the 230 gr TC, and again no leading. Trading and swapping I got a Ruger LC9s Pro and a while later a Model 19. Same story. I use WLL carnauba Red for a lube. After my cancer struck with a vengeance I could no longer take down my Glocks for cleaning due to neuropathy, and now have a CZ. But never have I had any leading with any of my Glocks using my cast boolits and CR lube.
No need to be sorry lazs, you didn't offend me and I'm not angry at you.
Cat
Thanks. I actually did not read every post in this thread tho but skimmed every one. I read pretty fast. I have been shooting cast bullets for ages and have dealt with leading the entire time. There are as many fixes for leading as there are posts in this thread. Mostly tho it boils down to a good bore with no restrictions and a properly fitted bullet.. then the whole alloy thing.. then the whole lube thing. I have been pleased with Hi-Tek and powder coat bullets the last few years tho and find they eliminate all or almost all chance of leading if done properly.
My point I guess is that if I had a gun with poly rifling I would not just dismiss the possibility of leading and that I would HT coat bullets for it and sleep better over it. Since I HT or PC all my cast bullets these days it is no hardship.
lazs
I have not posted in this thread in a while nor have I read anything that was posted. I hear all the time you can not shoot lead out of anything. The worst is when I hear it from gun shop owners. I just put my last loaded 260 something 10mm down the pipe of a glock today. Loaded kinda hot too. Both the Glock and I are still doing fine. Well the glock is my hand kinda hurts.
Glad to hear you are alive and kicking, Tom. I think what type and how much lube you use is very important. The Lee designs hold alot of lube, especially if you just barely size them. Tac-X is good stuff, and I honestly cannot recall any noticeable leading since I started using it.
Ive had no problems with Glock with light loads myself.
a very interesting thread. I have shot 1911's for 40 years, and moved into glocks a couple years ago, and have cast my own boolits the whole time. I have been using powder coat on boolits for a year now, and believe it solves leading problems in all pistols. I am curious if someone has seen any problems with powder coat in glock factory barrels and/or rifled barrels. I have not seen any problems surface in any of pistols to date.
I squeezed down a bunch of those TC boolits to .357 today just to try them. I didn't load any yet. They were .358, but if they don't lead I'm more the happier... we shall see......
Are they the Lee slugs I sent you? I find they drop right at .357.
Heavens no! Those have gone downrange in an indoor range some time ago. However, it's the same Lee mold. I've found that they all don't drop the same. I may not be holding the mold closed enough or maybe holding my mouth wrong, or just get tired too quickly now. But if I don't like the boolits after it comes from the lubrisizer I'll just put it back into the pot. Being retired has some advantages......
Welcome to the forum. I push 10mm bullets full speed. I have a woods G29. Woods meaning I got it for very little beat to heck and I carry it while working in the woods, well to be honest everywhere as it is my carry. I have had no leading. I use the lee lube on them and powder coat when I have it. My barrel is clean to date as well. Only factory ammo I own is 22lr. I have never shot a factory bullet out of a handgun its always been reloaded.
Lee 120 boolits bumped up to 0.358" and a custom case expander are being used for both target (3.9 promo) and full power (4.4 tightgroup) 9 mm loads in the Glock 17 that has caused me much frustration.
These loads do not seem (I think we are at a couple hundred down range so far) to accumulate lead build up in either the aftermarket barrel I bought or the factory barrel.
How old is that 17?
I shot thousands of lead bullets in various Glocks in their GSSF matches. The key was hard cast bullets at moderate velocities. No leading in the bore. I would get a thin film on the front sight of my G24 with its ported barrel.
Just shot up the last of my conventional cast
.45acp bullets in a match two weeks ago,
With my Glock 21. Powdercoated for me now.