I think it goes back to a thread before that one.
and the first shot thread was an off shoot to gather data.
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I think it goes back to a thread before that one.
and the first shot thread was an off shoot to gather data.
See, we don't even know!
I don't care where it started as long as we know where it ends.
I think we are getting closer and closer.
Shoot that new stuff, Brad, it's doing very well here, even at 84 degrees. In a few weeks it'll be summer. In another couple of months we'll have some test fresh test rifles, too, and I'm having a new .30-06 built as well.
Gear
I'm encouraged, Gear, but I'm sure that you realize that 84°F ain't nothin' special as far as heat goes.
A storm coming though here has cooled things down again, but I might be able to get some 90s temps in a week or two. Have access to an accurate .223 carbine if someone wants to mail out some .224 bullets, lube, and load data. Scratch that, I don't have a sizer die for those...(Star and Lyman are what's used here). Anyone willing to ship out a few sized & lubed .224 styles???
With 20 minutes in the sunny car I can get the ammo and rifle up above 100 most days now...AND I have an IR temp scanner!
Gotta get time for 'sperimentin'.
grump send me a p.m.
I could have 50 in your hands pretty quickly.
Attachment 66823
So I tried my hand at one of your many recipes...I didnt follow any exactly due to not having some of the special ingredients on hand... but what I tried to do was pretty close to the one involving equal parts soap, tranny goo, and wax.
What we see here is the first attempt, for which my "tranny goo" was vaseline (new), a dab of ATF, and a glug of 2-stoke oil. Melted the shaved soap into the heated mix which included about 1/6 total mix weight in paraffin. Neglected to read about raising the whole mix to 450-460 F. Once I thought it was good, I let it cool a little and mixed in the 1/6 total weight beeswax.
While letting it cool, I actually COMPREHENDED the part Gear says about properly cooking the soap mix. Amazing how dense I can be sometimes. Decided that this batch was probably stuck as it was, I didnt want to scorch the hell out of the beeswax which was already mixed in.
So went ahead and followed the directions more closely second time around, and increased the oil content a little (adding chain bar oil) hoping that it would allow the soap mix to get hotter faster. Put my lead thermometer in the mix. On high, it wouldnt crack 300 and barely smoked. Gave it five more minutes. No change. Decided maybe my second hot plate (the one I smelt with) might run hotter so gave that a try. Got up to about 325. Hmm
Suspected maybe the electrical service into my garage isnt providing full voltage (though power tools do fine), and also remembered that when I smelt I run off an extension cord coming from the back porch. So duplicated the exact smelting setup, same cord, same hot plate. Different pan unfortunately since the smelting one is pretty small.
45 minutes later, Still couldnt get past 375! And this setup melts lead! Oh I also learned that an unwatched lee furnace can sometimes empty itself onto your bench. I posted the pic on another thread.
This stuff was smoking like crazy, stinky, black, thick like grease. It never really reached "light auto oil" color or consistency, but finally it mostly all became liquid. Upon removing from heat, it did indeed gell really fast while stirring. Beeswax blended OK but I had to add more heat again for it all to melt. Oh yeah, I burned my hand pretty good just getting a small dab of the black goo on skin. Big ol blister.
My ingredient proportions were probably not right, and some of my exact choices of ingredient probably werent either. I wrote down everything so if anyone cares, I can put it out there but Im not pretending that this experience was helpful for anyone but me. Mostly I was trying to learn to work with a soap-heavy mixture. Mostly I think I learned that this process is not for stupid rookies, as there is some risk involved! Need to slow down a little, realize the levels of heat and thermal capacity I am dealing with. Oh, and get a good light or a light colored pan, because it became difficult to see really quick between the smoke and the blackout. Sensitive types may wish for a respirator.
Back to the picture displayed above, you see on the left the cooled down mix from my undercooked batch (I added a red crayon for identification). I remelted it, added another tbsp of vaseline, thought I would try it as pan lube. Nothing to lose anyway. I broke off the missing chunks on the lower right corner, set out my boolits, and dropped in the chunks to melt as the boolits heated. Hot plate was at about medium.
Light smoke, full liquification after about 5 minutes. Took it off to cool, and the color, smoothness, and consistency have changed to the point that this screwed up batch highly resembles my "correctly" done batch. I figure the beeswax is prob scorched but Im gonna shoot it anyway.
Im not really looking for any answers here, I am kinda just playing around until I understand things better, but I certainly welcome any input. Thanks for reading
Good shooting to all
Learning is a good thing.
Go to the Parts store and have them order the assemblee goo. It is the real deal.
The blister is the real deal too. That stuff is HOT, not like molten lead but well beyond a grease fryer.
oh yeah.
I got some real good scars from melting down stearate lubes.
if you get the soap to melt down and disappear you have more temp than you realize especially once the smoke off starts.
your casting thermometer will show around 350-f but you have more pan heat than that.
if you get the soap lube to the stringy part past the jelly stage with a little liquid looking stuff in the pan you take it off and hit it with the wax at that high temp.
I break the wax into quarter sized chunks and just stir, stir, stir.
everything will come together.
I have done it with straight mineral oil and ivory, the trannee goo is the big deal here we looked forever for it.
I took the Flubber to almost total liquid. Scary. It gelled up quick once removed from the heat.
I like the stuff, it is dry and hard until worked a little. That softens it and it the goes hard again with rest.
Hope it doesn't rain tomorrow am, I want to shoot.
I put that "be careful 'cuz you'll burn the @#$& out of yourself" warning up a time or two, perhaps not enough. I'm used to dealing with the soap lubes so I sort of take it for granted that it's dangerous as hell if you're not careful. Got one heck of a burn on my left thumb from a tiny speck, went right through to the meat like a spatter from welding will do.
The trick is to get to the liquid point. It doesn't have to be there for more than a few seconds, but it has to get there to make the grease work.
A tip: Don't mess with a thermometer, go back a few pages to where I posted the pictures and look at them really well, you'll see what the soap does and how it goes liquid starting at the bottom and then just a scum layer, then the scum all melts in and Voila! it's liquid. Cut the heat, take the pot off the burner, and start stirring as it gels. If you use paraffin or microwax instead of beeswax, put it all in together at the beginning and melt it in. Once the soap stops foaming off and calms down the mix will start taking heat again and shortly start to smoke. Observe the mix as it gets hotter and the smoke thicker by dipping a spoon through it. When it start getting smooth liquid you're getting close. Take it just to the point that it's all like the aforementioned "engine oil" consistency and you're done. It takes HEAT, and lots of it, to get the mix to melt. It also takes a long time to cool.
Gear
I'm re-posting this picture tutorial for all you soap lube cooks, and those who may have missed it. The same general rules apply for just about any version with significant soap content and beeswax. For petroleum micro and/or paraffin waxes melt them in at the beginning with the middle modifier since they can take the heat to melt the soap, it makes it easier to boil of the water in the soap and in the end you can pour it into moulds while still fully liquid and let it gel without stirring, makes a really nice "flubber" as Brad calls it, no lumps or bubbles.
Clicking on the attachment opens the picture up bigger if you need a closer look. Pay particular attention to what's in the spoon.
Gear
Thanks gear, appreciate the repost. Those pics are very helpful. I have some work to do here.
gotta get some tranny goo, and maybe a hotter burner. And practice.
LOL! Yeah, there's a little bit of a learning curve to it. I made three batches of Felix Lube before I finally figured it out, but those three lines of instructions didn't quite give all the info a newbie needed. Ended up spending about a week on CastPics and the archives here trolling the old threads from Shooter's and Aimoo (similar to this thread, actually) to get a better idea of what I was doing wrong. Recalling all of that is why I explain it to death, I know how tough it is to figure out both the big picture AND the nuances if you can't stand there and watch it being done.
Try to get both the blue and green Dr. Tranny Assemblee Goo and mix them if you get a chance.
Gear
Don't feel bad, I didn't heat it enough the first time either. It is kinda scary with all the smoke and what not.
I have been lucky enough to not get burned. Yet.
I have found that higher heat is easier to work with. You also need a much deeper pan than you think, when if foams it really foams. My 1 ounce each batch ends with about a 1/4 inch in the bottom of the pan but when it foams it is more like 1.5 inches deep. Foaming over would be bad.
All of this testing and reporting has been very interesting. It just struck me; has anyone tried just the "Dr. Tranny's Assemblee Goo"? I spent the good part of yesterday trying to make the 61 and 62 versions. I even mixed a little of Lars CR that was in the Star sizer.
I won't be able to get to the range for a couple of days. Anxiety is getting the best of me. Meanwhile, I think that I'll go ahead and order up a pound of Dr. T's blue in order to mix it with the green label.
EW
Prior to having the green 'Assembly Goo' in my hands I put together another 'Hi-Soap' lube. I call it the 'Stuttering Krag' like in 30 - 30 - 40.... (Stihl Bar lube, Ivory, Beeswax percentages) It is slightly wetter and slightly stickier that the green goo with viscosity about the same.
The .45 Colt Ruger seemed to like it; but rifle loads grouped two to three times bigger than with Polybutene Felix. Then I saw 'lube boogers' on the target.... Some pretty big!
It flirts with spring at my elevation here in the mountains. Many mornings are still in the 20's. I take advantage of these mornings for some semi-cold testing.
I liked the green goo! Mine is as described... slightly dry yet pliable. Hand lubes great! Bore condition left amazing! I added 5% Motul ester oil (no other oils) with the 95% left split three equal ways. (Goo, Ivovy, Beeswax) I christened it in my Ruger .250-3000. Then I went to my tight grouper.... The Savage Model 23 .32-20. Groups were 1 1/2" at 70 yards all vertical dispersion. About three or four times what this gun does with Polybutene Felix (and a couple others)! I hate the green color of this formula! But when green boogers end up on your target you know who the culprit is!
I have another Savage Model 23 in .25-20. (Those earlier Savage barrels are some of the most accurate cast boolit shooters for me). It is almost as accurate as its older sister the .32-20.... But green goo it didn't like with 3" 70 yard groups. This was 27°
This morning took me by surprise at 18°F. No green goo loaded up for gun/ammo saturation! I had loaded some .25-20's last night with EsterBee350. I have neglected this formulation ( a pretty good one) since my rougher bored .38-40 didn't like it last summer... No testing was done during winter and I am sad about it. The cold start this morning in the Savage .25-20 was 1/2" low... this with a 4.5% powder charge reduction. Three more went into 1/2" at 70 yards.. I'll try 3% powder reduction. Good cold lube in this gun so far.
The lube boogers thing really bothers me! Both of my high soap lubes showed nothing on cardboard at 10 feet. (About 40°F test)
Yet at 70 yards they show up! I've had a theory for quite a while that boolit surface friction takes a few milliseconds to heat sink into our boolit and melt/soften residual lube left on the boolit.
To really know what's on our boolit lube-wise when it leaves the muzzle is very hard to check.... I've found the sooner and the easier you can stop said boolit; and the faster you can cool it off.... The better chances you have to see what lube was left on the boolit at bore departure. I find boolit expansion tests into wet newspapers show this the best. It seems to entrap the lube (if any left) in the lube groove. But I took the .45 Colt Ruger up to a snow melt and shot a couple into the cold thawed mud.... These were lubed with the 'Stuttering Krag' mix and almost ALL the lube was still on board in the boolit groove! (Warmer 1000 fps load too)
I am about to expansion test some hunting bullets for an old friend for the up-coming season.... I will wring out the Green Goo into wet paper at the same time..
I think Green Goo will fail at the bottom end of extreme temps. It is good stuff.... don't get me wrong... It just needs something else in the formulation for below freezing..
Eutectic
Eutectic, try making some with paraffin instead of beeswax. Seems that change helps eliminate the loob boogers on targets.
I need to test some in my Marlin 45-70, it has shown boogers where no other rifle has.
Not sure how it will do in cold, we don't have that anymore.
And here I thought I was the only one with accuracy issues with the gear goo.....whew it's not just me. The following is just my opinion....nothing needs to be added to make this recipe better, subtraction will get you alot farther methinks.
Only way I have found to make the tranny gear goo lube recipe work is to cut the oils some/entirely and to cut the soap % waaaay back. The wax/oil %'s seem far less critical than the amount of soap. Once I get over about 10% soap everything goes to hell in a handbasket and 5% is even better yet.
I have been shooting what I believe is the "Beta" version, no oils just soap, Bwax and green goo. I'm quite happy with it so far. I was not pushing it very hard in my .357 lever (130@1250 fps) but getting nice round 50 yd 10 shot groups of 1-1 1/2". I've been working it against the "simple" lube and with the above loading and both lubes are about the same. Today I pushed a little harder using the Accurate 160B (160gr pb fp) and 9.5 Blue dot which runs a little over 1400 fps and I'm guessing 28-30KPSI. I was tight on time so could only do 1 group each but the Beta was a little better than the Simple today at 50 yds. FWIW here's a pic of the Beta target. I grab used 50' rimfire targets from my club for my levers with peeps.
My best effort even though there is NOT ENOUGH soap in it for this "QUEST"
By WEIGHT:
5oz Green Tranny Goo
5oz Canning Paraffin
1oz (Dried) Ivory Soap Flakes
1oz Beeswax
It is not perfect....YET...it could use some minor tweaks. I know what I was trying to do several years ago when I used the same percentages on a real similar lube using petrolatum. The substitution of the tranny goo for the petrolatum I was using is a definate improvement in both performance (the handling could use some work yet) and now the color is even correct. So thanks Gear for pointing out this product.