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Anyone happen to have tried Tech Line Powerkote DFL-1 (dry film lubricant) or anything like it?
This is from the product description:
http://www.techlinecoatings.com/indu...powerkote.html
- High pressure lubricant
- Reduces friction, galling and scuffing. Increases part life
- Requires no clearance changes to compensate for the coating
- Apply to any part subject to sliding or rotating friction
- Excellent for use on bearings
- Water based no hazardous fumes
- Requires baking. Cures at 300f minimum. Must be oven cured
http://techlinecoatings.com/Engine.htm
I thought it sounded promising. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?:?::?::?:
That sounds very, very, interesting if their claims are true.
Sounds good, but as I said earlier, be careful if there is any Teflon in it. It is apparently pretty nasty when subjected to high heat and extreme pressure when used in guns.
I saw my mate the bullet maker at a shoot this weekend and tried to talk to him. He is as deaf as a post and there were a few hundred noisy shooters and several live bands at the shindig. I gave up after awhile.
I did a few more tests today. I don't have any pictures yet, but I thought I'd report what I found.
Unlike previous efforts, I actually did some minor surface prep prior to powder coating. I put the boolits into a plastic dish with some 95% Isopropyl alcohol -- just enough to get all the boolits wet. I just sloshed 'em around in this alcohol just like I was tumble lubing them. When I was ready, I picked out of few (wearing neoprine gloves) and set them on my baking tray. To remove all the moisture, I pre-baked them at about 200 degrees for about 10 minutes.
Afterwards, I powder coated them in the normal way with VERY good results. Beautiful, durable, smooth coating that effortlessly survived resizing. I smashed one with a hammer, and the only damage to the coating was caused by a glancing blow that cut into the lead (and send the bullet careening across the floor).
I'm going to load some of these up and try them on Tuesday. I'll report what I find.
Less successful was another "hot flocking" attempt...
First attempt involved pre-heating the bullet to about 200 degrees and rolling it in some powder. No good. The powder did not stick.
At 300 degrees, the powder stuck, but it was impossible to control the thickness. It ended up so thick it was VERY difficult to get the bullet through the sizer, and the powder peeled off.
And here are some pictures of them loaded up and ready to go...
http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/...Tray-Small.jpg
http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/...rier-Small.jpg
I've been watching this thread for a while now,and decided to try the Krylon Fusion paint on some boolits.
I went to Home Depot today only to find out that they don't have Krylon at all. I picked up a can of Rust Oleum painter's choice that says it also bonds to plastics.
I plan to try a small batch of boolits to see how they come out, then I'll decide if they're good enough to load for further testing.
i sounds cool but i just don't see any advantage to this. what am i missing? i paint for a living, spray tech coating all day. and this is sooo much slower than lube sizing. why?
I can't say why others are interested in this. But I have a few reasons I am interested in coating bullets.
1) Ability to run through Mr. Bulletfeeder/Kiss Bulletfeeder
2) Storage of sized bullets and lube doesn't stick to everything
3) No handling of lead when loading or shooting
4) Allowed at ranges that do not allow exposed lead bullets
5) It is a minor byproduct, but a shiny brass cartridge with a bright red bullet looks COOL:-P
6) Others have mentioned have different colored bullets for different loads. Black for plinking, Yellow for target and Red for high powered loads
7) Less smoke when firing indoors or when there is not much wind
Personally I load/cast boolits in stages.
I cast and cast and cast until I am bored and have a large stockpile. This could be a couple evenings after work of just casting several thousand bullets.
Then I plan on painting all the bullets.
Then size and size for a couple days/evenings until they are all ready to load, then throw them in containers/ammo boxes and wait until I need them.
I know some people have very different habbits and cast/size in an evening and sometimes even load the cartridge. Everyone will have their own reason for doing this. Nobody is saying it will work for everyone, it just happens that everyone who is subscribed or reads the info in this thread is interested in the same thing so we all have a personal reason to find something that works. Some have tried things I don't agree with, but that doesn't stop me from learning from what they did. If it works for them, I am glad they shared their results with everyone else.
I've got my first test batch laid out. The ingots are only there to keep the plastic from blowing away. I'll also test the painted ingots to see if I can rub/scratch/wear the paint off since they have it on there anyway. I compared the MSDS sheets, and the Rustoleum Painter's Touch 2x coverage paint appears to be pretty similar to Krylon Fusion.
I'm using Lee's 230gr TC .45 boolit.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...20501-1548.jpg
I also got the bright idea to try setting some on their nose so that the base is getting coated.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...20501-1605.jpg
I'm also testing a batch of the 356-102-2r boolit.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...20501-1605.jpg
I figure at worst, if the paint turns out to be fragile and flakey, I can just throw them all back in the smelting pot.
I just got off the phone to my mate who used to own and operate one of the larger commercial cast bullet operations in Australia. He sold his business off, because he said that the coated bullets were brilliant, but he got sick of the extra effort they require in manafacture.
He still sells bullets, but specialises in traditional cast bullets for black powder and BPCR. He sells coated bullets, but doesn't go out of his way to pursue this market. He buys his coated bullets from another manafacturer and they are bundled up with his labels, etc. He makes no effort to conceal the fact that they are made by a contractor and marks this on his label.
The process is:
cast bullets placed into tumbler (he used to use a cement mixer especially for the process and for special orders requiring a different colour, he used to place a 20ltr/4gallon drum inside the mixer.
First coat. chemical is poured onto the tumbling bullets until a very light coat is applied. When satisfactorily coated the bullets are tipped out onto a rack. Apparently bullets sticking to each other is not normally a problem.
Cook: Bullets are heated in an oven for 10-20 minutes. The oven needs to have an even temperature throughtout. Some use fan forced household ovens, the bigger operators use pizza ovens.
Cool: When air cooled (a fan is often used) they are returned to the tumbler.
Coat: This time a thicker coat is applied as the bullets tumble.
This process is done 2-3 times depending on the thickness required, etc.
Size: when finished, the bullets are run through a sizer without lube.
As you can see, this is a huge PITA, converntional bullets just need to be lube sized, which is virtually the last step in the coating process. I can see why my mate sold off that part of his business.
He uses the coated bullets sometimes for black powder, just pushes lube into the grooves. He uses a mixture of pig fat, beeswax and lard.
wow...lot of work for cool lookin boolits.
i think it would almost make sence if you had special molds so the last step could be skipped. to have to size after all that is the deal breaker for me.
I was always under the understanding that the Boolit manufacturer here in Oz that I buy Boolits from sizes them first, then tumble coats them with his hard cast lube in the mixer.
It's been pretty much standard practice here for commercially sold Boolits for years. :happy dance:
How do they lube if they size first? I would have thought that any lube applied to the bullets at that stage would comprimise the adherence of any coating chemicals later on or need removal before the coating was applied.
Sizing at the end sounds strange to me also, as the coating is gripping the sides of the bullet and the bullet is then reduced in size.
I took a couple of my painted boolits today and ran them thru the sizer. I compared to an unpainted, unlubed boolit from the same batch.
The coated boolits sized in a hand press took about the same effort as the unlubed boolit.
The bad news is that I can see the lead shining thru a bit on the bearing surface, so the coating is definitely thinner there.
Watching his boolit making process/machines,
the boolits were cast & then sized in a seperate machine.
Then loaded into his cement mixer which was either rubber or plastic lined, tumbled with his hard cast lube, then baked I think, didn't hang round to watch that process. :smile:
If you check out youtube there are few cylinder type boolit casting machines & sizers in action.
If the sizing operation removes coating, then flying down a barrel surely will! The sizing operation is a good initial test of the thickness and durability of the coating.
I resize my bullets AFTER they've been powder coated. I toss my coated bullets into a plastic bowl (old margarine container) and give 'em a squirt with my home-made case lube (Lanolin + Alcohol).
They slip through the sizer with very little effort, and NO powder coating is removed. Powder is kinda slippery on its own, so they might go through the sizer with no lube at all.
I wasn't saying that I thought that the coating would be scraped off, but the coating is stuck to a bullet that is say, .358 and then that bullet is sized to 357essentially we have the same amount of coatingsticking to a bullet that has reduced in size.
As to when the sizing was done, that is the way Sod Buster told me he did it when he owned and operated Silver Shadow Bullets.
they size the bullets without lube and then tumble coat them the way I hear it from four fingers. Right now the way I fluid coat my 20 gauge slugs it comes out about .621 without sizing and that it perfect. I did change the way I dip the slugs to putting the eyelet on the bottom. from reading here I agree that you do not need coating on the bottom or the bullet. I am going to try cleaning the bullet before dipping with alcohol next.
Sounds like to me that the big companies down under have seen the hand writing on the wall and are gobbling up the small coated bullet manufacturers.
G'day All.
Here in OZ, there is a boolit maker called Topscore Projectiles.
They do coated lead Bullets.
I have been using them for years and I have spent a lot of time in his factory.
He casts then coats then sizes.
No, I said that if you were to size before coating you would need some sort of lube as far as I can see. My Mate sized as a final step before packaging.
I was incorrect before it was Top Score not Silver Shadow bullets that he owned and he would have trained the New owner I suppose. I was under the impression that Tony Diablo from Victoria bought Top Score.
Seems to me that everybody is looking for the same thing: the simplest process for coating and sizing for us DIY types. And it sounds like we're getting there. Thanks to all for some significant effort!
What is the fastest velocity the powder coated or Australian bullets have been pushed? A coated 77 gr. for my 3-gun ar would be great. (Would this be remotely possible?) I have been playing with Sandsstrom coating in my s&w m&p 9mm, and have had very good results.
A friend just brought me a gift -- a commercial polymer coated bullet made by a company called Bayou Bullets. A member at our gun club had some and gave him one to look at. The gentleman who provided the sample was highly positive in his review of the bullets. They can be shot indoors without issue, and his barrel remains clean -- no lead, no copper, and no polymer. The bullet is now in my possession. :-)
Observations:
- The base is fully coated.
- The lube groove is very lightly coated, and one circular spot exists in the lube groove where no coating is present
- Based on my own experience, the bullet has been sized AFTER is was coated.
- The coating looks slightly thinner and less durable than the Polymer TGIC powder I've been using
- Thinner or not, it was tough enough to survive being pulled-down without any damage to the coating. Even copper plating will show scuffs.
- The underlying lead bullet is a bit harder than I'd expect or use for the caliber (45 ACP). Although I don't have a formal BHN tester, the "fingernail" test + experience tells me that it is probably upwards of 12-14.
This tells me that I'm *very* close. I've read other reviews of these bullets and people seem to really like them. No smoke, no leading, good accuracy. If I can solve the "how do I coat the base" question, I think I've got a viable method and concept.
We're going to shoot some of my coated 38SPL later today (if everything goes as planned), plus I'll try to post some pictures of the Bayou bullet.
I have been busy lately and haven't had a chance to do any more testing. Personally I don't mind sizing, however if some one wants to try couldn't you coat a tumble lube design and skip sizing? I don't know for certain but I thought they were slightly smaller in diameter and didn't always have to be sized.
Sent using Tapatalk
I have shot bayou bullets. They did not lead, they did not work in my pistol. I know several people that love them. I used a lee tumble lube mold and sandstrom coating. Had best results unsized. Unsized dia is. 358. I am going to shoot an IDPA match tomorrow with them.
Initial tests of my yellow 38 SPL bullets was successful. Pictures are pending, but no yellow stuff was deposited into the barrel.
Some 9mm goodies that are going to get shot tomorrow (along with the 45's from the other day)...
http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/...ray2-Small.jpg
Will reporting my findings...
Blue lipsticks! Sure look good, hope they work for you.
Some pictures from testing today:
Our bullet trap made from Kitty litter container and waterlogged catalogs...
http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/...BoolitTrap.jpg
A collection of recovered boolits:
http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/...FiredGroup.jpg
38 Special recovered:
http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/...red38SPL-2.jpg
Another 38 Special:
http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/...red38SPL-1.jpg
A 9mm... if you look really closely, you can see the telltale signs of a hexagonal-rifled barrel -- this was from a Glock 17:
http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/...Fired9mm-1.jpg
And a "Blue Ballbuster" from the same Glock 17:
http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/...Fired9mm-2.jpg
Some boolits that collided with each other in the trap...
http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/...ashedGroup.jpg
Two sides of a mangled 45ACP:
http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/...mashed45-1.jpg
A 45 ACP that shows one of the few problems noted -- some cutting along the rifling lines:
http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/...5Problem-1.jpg
A recovered 45ACP from the first batch:
http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/.../Fired45-1.jpg
Orchimaro, my hat's off to you, it appears you have a winning process there. It looks to me that the only reason for the slight failure of the land edge on the .45 slugs was due to skidding on launch. Notice the triangular shape of the exposed lead on the right side of the engrave in the next-to-last picture, and the drive bands "wadded up" on that side? The boolit skidded slightly as the rifling grabbed it and pulled it into a spin, displacing lead and scraping away the finish. Perhaps a switch to a slightly slower powder or slightly tougher alloy would solve this?
Gear
Sorry personally, have no idea on centrfire rifle hard cast lubed projectiles, not powder coated, the few I do use are factory loads.
Have used tens of thousands of pistol loads over the last 10 yrs in my 9mm & .357 & up to factory bought speeds, approx 1100 to 1200 FPS with just the normal leading stains.
As in earlier post, surprised they're not used more up there. :?:
I agree -- it is something unique to the alloy or the powder/load. The powder and prep methods were the same as I used for the other calibers.
Thanks for the tip on the skidding! This was a light-ish load using Hodgdon Universal. I got a lot of carbon on the outside of the brass, so there were definitely some opportunities to improve the load.
Orochimaru, nice job! I need to try powder coating! I shot an IDPA classifier plus two side matches on Saturday. Then some friends came over Sunday and we practiced on steel plates. Sandstrom treated bullets worked fine. Nothing more than tumble lube and bake. Chronographed load at 1070.
I am using sandstrom 28a. It is an air-dry product, or you can force dry it. I purchased it direct from them. So far I am happy with the results.