+1 on Dacron, I don't recommend it often but this situation definitely calls for it.
First four in 1.5", that lube is doing it's job.
Gear
Printable View
+1 on Dacron, I don't recommend it often but this situation definitely calls for it.
First four in 1.5", that lube is doing it's job.
Gear
I cast a new batch of the XCB with a new alloy to me with COWW(80%) and soft (8BHN) Range scrap (20%)...so I'd have a lower tin content for heat treating. I heat treated some of them yesterday (1hr@400º)and today they measure 23.8BHN.
I hope to pull the stock off this rifle soon.
You went the right direction, but way to far unless you plan on using a much faster powder.
Do the dollar bill test on the rifle before you pull the action out of the stock.
Gear
Heat treating with up to 2% tin won't effect much. Regarding less tin at HV which has been talked about I don't know. Yet! I routinely HT CWW +2% Sn up to 30 BHN and it takes 10 years for them to age soften back to 26 BHN. If your tin percentage is over 5% it can effect both how hard they get and how fast they age soften and in reality it may take more than 5% Sn.
Rick
I removed the stock and adjusted the trigger and looked around.
There surely was PLENTY of upward pressure on the barrel. The screw just forward the Magazine wasn't in contact with the wood, as well as the Lug area. I don't see anything that looks like a "pressure pad".
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps39a4f595.jpg
So I cut up 10 shims (0.010" alum) to put into the lug area. I put a couple in at a time, then re installed the stock. It seemed like they started to make contact at the ninth shim...and I believed that even with the tenth shim installed there was too much pressure on the barrel...although I had no way to measure or judge...except by feel. I then decided that the Lug was the wrong place to put shims. So I removed all those shims and found a 3/8" flat washer that was about 0.010" thick and put that between the wood and receiver on the screw just forward of the magazine. That 'lifted' the barrel high enough to allowed for the dollar bill test...the dollar bill couldn't be "slid in", but when installed with the stock, it be moved but was snug, especially on the right side, but wasn't LOCKED in place like it was when there was no 3/8 washer ...as well as when there were the shims installed. This pre-64 gun is more of an investment and was just handy for my use for this lube/XCB test...So I have no interest in mod'ing the stock and/or bedding the action.
So anyway, the following post "range report #2" was shoot with the 3/8 washer installed and no shims installed. The barrel, while still in contact with the wood (not free floating), there is a lot less pressure put on it.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps7936786b.jpg
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps16a0f38a.jpg
Range Report #2
All shooting was at the 100 yd bench.
While my targets are not dreadful...this was not a very good day at the range.
I went to the range Thursday morning about 10am, it was about 10º F
The Rifles and ammo were pre-chilled outside overnight, it was about 0º F as a low that night.
Backup a bit, we had rain on sunday...a nice long soaking/thawing/35º drizzly rain that melted all the snow and soaked into everything...including my truck. The Doors were froze shut, as well as windows, tailgate, and hood. I scraped the frost, only to realize the inside was heavily frosted as well...Yes, I took it for a drive on sunday, in the rain...that was a mistake.
I get to the range, the gate lock is froze up. I setup my Chrono...jump forward a bit...the Chrono was being subborn and refused to read any shots. It's a Pact 1, with plastic sky screens. I nicked then several times, trying to get that thing to read a shot. I guess it's smarter than me, and I'm about ready to sell it.
The loads for the 30-06 (Win mod 70), were similar to the first Range report, 33.3gr H335 (which is 1 grain less), and I added a piece of Dacron (1/2"x1/2"x3/4" pulled into place), NOE 310 165 FN XCB that were cast with "fan cooled" COWW with no extra tin added, measured 15 BHN. I seem to be experiencing a few points BHN gain from casting in a cool room (55º) and have a fan blowing in the area where the boolits are dropped. The XCB were lubed with SL68B in a Lyman 45 with a .311 die and the boolits were .3105 x .3115 before sizing. Oh, and Gator GC's.
The first five shots from the COLD (10º) barrel and COLD (10º) ammo was about a 3.5" group. The group on the cardboard, the paper was left for sizing reference, ignore the holes in the paper for now. This was from the same scope setting as the first range report...which was nearly 20" below from where it was bore sighted. So judging by this target and the "X" as reference, the group was about 7" lower than the first range report groups...obviously from the lessened pressure from the stock.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps1426e8c2.jpg
So I adjusted the scope, and shot 2 nine shot groups and those two targets are below...not great, but I'm thinking the lube isn't the issue. I did have a couple primers that wouldn't fire...Too cold for CCI ? more on that later.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps9d416c64.jpg
================================================== =======
I also brought out a custom 1909 mauser rebarreled to 358 win, it's a 1:16 twist carbine. I have lots of feeding issues with it, and got most of them fixed. On another outing I could only spray the target...12" to 16" groups, but that is because I was seating the RCBS 35-200 to the crimp groove so I could crimp the boolits as I had feeding issues and most of the time, without a crimp, I was jamming the boolits into the case...anyway, when I crimped the boolits in the crimp groove, I solved that problem, but then the boolit would be about 0.100" or more off the lands. That's what I believe was the reason for the large groups.
So for yesterday's range visit, I loaded some so the boolits were seated to the lands...which was way out there...maybe only 0.200" or a bit less of the boolit in the neck. I used MML+S instead of SL68B for a lube since the SL68B is sooo soft and the main lube groove is completely exposed the way I had to seat the boolit. I used 26gr. of AA 5744. These are five shoot groups (instead of ten) because I had so many CCI primers not fire. they are 2.5" to 3.5" groups...well that's a lot better than the 12" to 16" groups, YAY !
I also have the NOE 358009 boolit, that large 280gr boolit fits the chamber much better and the nose seems the correct size, but will NOT cycle into the chamber for anything, and the slow twist doesn't stabilize it,,,it'll tip/yaw at 50 yds.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps32fef916.jpg
I put all the ammo that didn't fire, into the truck to warmup. afterwhich, I chambered them and every single one of them fired.
The target below is some of them. and yes, I tried to re-stike a few of them while still cold, I don't believe it was a primer seating issue or a light firing pin strike...the gun left some pretty good dimples in them while cold...those that failed in the cold, all ignited when warmed up. Is that common with CCI ?
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps730ed28f.jpg
Jon, I'm hardly a stock fitting expert but it sounds like there was originally a washer there and over the years it was lost. Did ya try adding a second washer to lift the barrel a little more?
Rick
Rick,
Maybe that's the "pressure pad" that Mike mentioned ? There isn't any visual evidence in the wood stock that anything ever was there.
No, I didn't try a second washer to lift the action any further. Honestly, I'm about done with this 30-06 for the time being...back into the safe for her. Not many more weather friendly range days left for me this winter, All indicators point to me being called back to work the first week of January...and I have to get some revolver shootin' in before then ;)
Jon
Yep, new M1A but you haven't seen my safe or know what gets shot by far the most. What I took Bambi hunting had a cylinder and 7 inch barrel. There are toys and there are real guns. Real guns are wheel guns :mrgreen:
Rick
My real guns all have a lever on them.
JonB, if you ever feel like checking those stock/barrel clearances again, you might use a little dab of play-doh or modelling clay in that void to get an idea of the space there between stock and barrel.
smokeywolf
Glass bedding time?
I totally agree, IF, I was going to keep this gun for it's intended use, and it would be worth the investment for an expert to do that instead of doing that with my inexperienced ham fists.
BUT alas, I did say this for a reason.
from my experience, any mod's (well done or not) will only negatively effect the price of items that have an inflated "collectible" value.Quote:
This pre-64 gun is more of an investment and was just handy for my use for this lube/XCB test...So I have no interest in mod'ing the stock and/or bedding the action.
collectable value is a fleeting thing.
this year collectable,,,,,,, next year not so much.
bet you can find a 'collectable' tickle me elmo doll in plenty of thrift stores if you still want one.
I might collect guns, but I don't sell guns. It comes home, I shoot it, it stays.
I was aware of it being a pre 64 model 70, and that that might be why we were tiptoeing around the bedding problems, but I'm simplistic, and anything less than good glass bedding is unacceptable.
See SL-68 lube test at -14°F below zero here! Post # 2923
Eutectic
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...54#post3069554
Another test in which the SL lubes were involved, at 40-something degrees. http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....pic,554.0.html
Not great, but not the worst, so far been tested from 105F to minus 14 and from 650 fps to over 2600 and hangs in there pretty well through it all. I'm pleased and will continue to work on improving it.
Gear
Another range visit with SL68
I lubed/sized some 359 WC's with SL68 and loaded them with 3.2gr Bullseye in Nickel 38 Special cases.
It was chilly, 18º, cloudy, and a moist breeze out of the south. No cold gun fliers, I was shivering and the 2" to 3" groups (off-hand 50') were consistent with my ability in these conditions (also not wearing gloves while shooting).
While this range report barely is worth mentioning...what is worth mentioning is the condition of the gun. It wasn't a greasy/sooty mess like I usually get with the typical beeswax/oil lubes I usually use. Yeah there was some dry gunpowder burn stain. but it wasn't greasy, Bore was clean and no lead fouling. Muzzle had the same dry gunpowder burn stain. Even the spent cases were fairly clean and free of grease
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps84ef138c.jpg