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have convinced myself to try (real) black powder instead of Pyrodex that i had used in past for T/C Hawkens .50 cal.
What are the differences in Goex/Swiss/other brands as far as fg,ffg,fffg, etc.....? and what should i use for my aplication of shotting round balls and great plains style bullets?
Thanks everyone really appreciate all the advice and help
3f is for pistols/ small bore rifles. 2f is for larger rifles like 45 and up and f is for very large bore like cannon and such. This is not a definatew I might ad as some will cross over a bit. Typically your 50 cal will shot ff but you can shoot fff also.
I have not been able to try allot of different brands of BP because I find it hard to find. GOEX is a good brand and swiss is usually concidered some of the best.
BP cartridge rifle shooters like the Swiss for it's accuracy. But it cost more and for a front stuffer with cap ignition ? Well you'd have to talk to someone that was heavy into target shooting ML for their opinion as to any advantage for the cost. I've never used Swiss personally. Simply because it was never on the shelf at the store.
3f would be handy for light charges under a round ball. It burns cleaner. For charges over say ?? 50gr under RB or any conical bullet charge 2f is the only BP I'd use in a 50. I quit using heavy charges of 3f under my 220 grain 45 caliber maxi years ago. I used to think the 3f was more accurate but it was the to hard scrap lead maxi balls that needed very high pressures the 3f would give to get them to upset to fill the rifling. Those hard bullets would also go right through a deer with minimal effect. So what I needed was good soft lead. Most of the plumbers and roofing scrap lead I get test out at around 8 to 10 BHN and is way to hard to shoot well. You could not scratch my old Maxi's with a finger nail. I found some cable sheathing that's softer than foundry pig lead I've purchased in the past. It's very pure lead.
I've always thought the more explosive nature of BP over Pyrodex is what made it work better with Maxi , RB and BPCR. Just better for obturation of the boolit. But that's just a layman's guess as I'm not hard into BP. Have never even seen a pressure curve chart. I do know that to achieve good accuracy from a Maxi that was probably around BHN #10 I was using 110 grains of 3f in a 45 caliber Hawkins cap gun. That would be C size can at 100 yards accuracy. My old Thomson Center shoots good. That would also burn out a cap nipple in a day. If you put that much pressure under a 50 caliber bullet you'd probably split the stock from recoil. It's a wonder I ever lived through my teen years. With all the dirt bikes, guns and whiskey.
I use 3F in my 45 and 50 with no issues. You just have to work up a good load and follow the basics.
Andy
I use 3f in everything up to .54 and I've had no problems with RB or Maxis/REALs. In fact, one .54 shoots best with 3f under a Maxi. In my .58 and .62s I use 2f, but I wouldn't be worried if I only had 3f. The recommendation I've seen is that if you use 3f instead of 2f in larger calibers, cut your max charge by 10-15%.
Unless I'm working on a hunting load, I don't use heavy charges of any powder. An older and wiser man taught me in my early BP shooting days that for target all you really need is enough to get it through the target, anything more is just extra money for Goex/Swiss/Graf/etc.
My standard in the 50s is FFF. I use FF in my 58 and 69. Never had a problem and shoot up to 110 gr. of FFF in a 50. That is with a 405 boolit too, stout recoil involved. I favor Swiss but have used Goex, KIK, Graff, and the old Elephant. Have some F and Cannon grade too. The F and cannon is for "display" shooting like on 4th July and New Years. Some of that under tightly rammed rag or papertowel and you have a great display of those big grains of powder burning and flying out the muzzle and burning stuff flying all over the place. Great Fun!!
10 ga
10 ga:
I had a great Uncle walked around missing a thumb since he was a teenager.
They did that 4th of July display with a tube full of BP under a sheet from Sears & Roebuck catalog.
Not saying don't' do it. Just maybe don't' fill the barrel all the way to the top. I heard the term flash powder used also so it may have been 4f. He showed me that thumb in a jar of preservative when I was a little boy. I was impressed.
I use FFg Goex for everything but then I don't shoot or have anything that's under a 50 cal. and only shoot percusion, no flinters in my stable now.
I tried Pyrodex, 777 and some of the others and found that I got hang fires with them sometimes so I stopped using them. With the real BP I have never experianced a hang fire.
Goex for me and Swiss would be my second choice only because it's harder to find in my area but if I could find it I wouldn't hesitate to use it.
2shot
Deadwood-
I don't know if you cross the river into Missouri often, but if you do, you might want to get to Graf and Sons in Mexico, Mo. They carry their own brand (label anyways) and it is cheaper than Goex. I have shot couple of pounds of theirs and I can't tell the difference between it and Goex.
Regards,
Everett
Id choose Goex first, Swiss second. You should get a tad better FPS out of 3f.
Ive used both 2f and 3f, when Ive used 2f, because Ive ran out of 3f, there is a slight loss of pressure in my 42 inch barrel.
Starting this year, I'm saving all my black, and a friend gave me 2lbs of Pyrodex, Im going to use it. You cant buy black here any more, but you still can get the subs.
I chronographed a few loads a while back. I have used 3f in everything up to a 54, just less of it than 2f. Generally 3f in a larger bore like a 50 or 54 will give about the same velocity with about 20 grains less powder. However the 2f seems to have less velocity variance shot to shot. 3f was still fairly accurate. You get about the same velocity as 2f GOEX is you use about 10 grains less 2f Swiss, as it does seem to have a little more zip. It seems to burn a little cleaner. Some folks like 2f in calibers as small as 40's for precise target shooting. I use 80 grains of 3f behind a RB in my 50 and have never shot any form of conicals in a ML as my rifles are made for RB. As to Grafs Powder, when I chronographed it, it was about the same as GOEX. Many think that 3f burns a little cleaner??? Were it me and I wanted to use one powder in a 50, I think I would buy the 2f if I were using both RB and Great Plains bullets.
Northmn
i've always used goex 2 and 3 f.since i found a source for swiss,i've used it.more expensive but you don't need as much.and it seems to burn cleaner.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadWood
OH Yeah, for the displays it's just an ordinary load of 90-110 grains of F or Cannon for display. A tigh wad of Paper towels or old loading rags inflicted with hoppes etc... a wonderful display of flames....
I like the Swis for the power, probably 10% hotter than other BP. GOEX is usually most readily available but when I'm in NOVA I'll go by Back Creek and get whatever I need. Have some friends that shoot N-S skirmish and they get stuff whenever I'm short. Best, 10 ga
I've been using various charges of Goex FFFg in my 32 & 54 capguns, and also in my .50 rocklock as both main & priming charge, w/o any issues.
I'm on the last pound of Goex my local funshop had, and bought a large supply of the only other BP they said was readily available - Swiss - so, I know I'm going to have to drop the charges in all my rifles by about 10% due to the higher intensity Swiss supplies.
.
I keep looking for the Swiss stuff here on the west coast but have yet to find any. So Goex is my standard. When I was working up loads years ago I got a bit crazy and loaded up 110 3F under a PRB, Ya I scare myself when I think back to my younger "Immortal" days... /shudder...
and figured if the hammer was kicked back to halfcock the load may have been to hot :p Don't think I would have gotten that stupid with anything but a TC Bbl. Read to many reports on how strong the TC Bbl was and how much you could abuse it... Not something to tell kids starting out lol...
Most of the barrels are pretty tough today. Green Mountain is made out of 1137 barrel steel, which I bet TC barrels were made out of. One retired barrel maker claimed taht he put 400 grains of powder in a 13/16 50 and plugged both ends. The charge vented out the touchhole. What wrecks a barrel very quick is a poorly seated ball. 110 3f is a little hot for a 50. One of the things I found in my 50 was that after about 80 grains of 3f I was mostly making noise. My 50 has a 36 inch barrel. The gains in velocity were just not there. The big thing I found about using 3f in the bigger bores was that the shot to shot variations were considerably higher, over 100 fps) as compared to less than half that with 2f. Yet some find 3f more accurate, Dd if I Know. I have switched to 2f for larger bores for hunting loads for that reason. For short range plinking etc the 3f with lighter charges still works pretty good. Most 50's like about 50 grains of 3f behind a patched ball for up close. ball patch tightness and lube also make a big difference in fouling, maybe more so than powder granualtion. Looser loads foul more. Also the use of liquid lubes that can doule as cleaner help recuce shot to shot fouling. I know the short starter may not be PC and all that but I can get more accuracy with a tight combo and have not really worried about quick reloads in the field.
DP
All that testing pretty much left me at 75grs 2F is what that Bbl loves so I don't bother with anything else anymore. I leave the 3F for the revolvers...
Still styling to find a heavy bullet that it likes though... haven't yet but in no hurry to start that up again...