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I have followed several threads with the various straight walled cartridge requirements and didn't realize until recently that there are also length requirements in some areas?
Would members who reside and / or hunt those restricted areas share what your legal limitations are?
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I hunt Michigans southern "Limited Zone" The cartridge restrictions are listed in the DNR hunting digest: "Straight Walled cartridges with a minimum bullet diameter of . 35 caliber with a minimum case length of not less than 1.16 inches nor longer than 1.8 (1 13/16") inches". So far I've hunted with 357Mag, 357AR, 350L, 375FUW, 375MMM (375Win with a 1.8" case), 400FUW, 44mag, 44x1.6, 44x1.8", 450BM and have another 44 belted lined up to try later this season. All have 1.8" or shorter cases.
Is the choice of cartridges in your area on the onus of the sportsmen? Or is there a list of "approved cartridges"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moleman-
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supposedly i’ve known guys from the michigan sports man forums who have trimmed down 45-70’s to be in spec.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moleman-
my thing is you have to have a C/O that is gun savvy to understand that a trimmed down 45-70 is than legal. i’ve never known a michigan C/O to a actually measure a case. I don’t know if they carry a ruler in their pock or not
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no approved cartridge list. just have to be within that spec that was listed. I believe the new rules have been in affect since 2014.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwtebay
357 mag and 44 mag were popular for a hot second before randy’s in bad axe mi, helped ruger designed the Ruger american in .450 Bm with a 16 inch barrel. Randy had a special deal with ruger after that and he was the only one allowed to sell the ruger RAR .450 in michigan for 3-4 years after words. it was crazy he was selling ruger .450’s bm by the semi-truck load. before that it was shotgun only in the limited rifle zone. That was an earth shattering event with the rule change and randy having that deal with ruger. $420 OTD your average guy went from minute of pie plate to shooting sub moa groups at 100 yards
I bought my RAR with a 22 inch barrel in 2019 from Bares ( now thurstons ) in st.charles. that was the same year the .350 legend came out. i was leary with .350 legend just because, it was new. i still think i made the right choice with the .450 bm. the Bm plants deer. i’ve never had one go more than 10-15 yards. However, i think the .350 legend is probably more popular in the state at the moment. less recoil.
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Just for my own edification can anybody explain he thought process behind these requirements? I’ve never paid attention to them because I have no where’s near Michigan and I have not lived in a state that had these requirements. Although I did hunt the southern tier of New York back in the 80s where it was shotgun slugs only. My understanding of this requirement was the proximity of the population and the fact that a rifle round had too much of a chance of hitting someone’s house or some other personal property or even a bystander. And like I said if I remember correctly it was all due to the denseness of population. Is that the same in Michigan as far as the straight wall cartridge is in 1.8 inch in length only? Personally I don’t really believe in any of that I mean a 22 long rifle will make you just as dead as a 417 nitro Xpress so as long as you follow the four basic rules of firearm safety along with a little bit of common sense it really doesn’t make any difference what caliber you’re hunting with. Anyway just curious as to the reasoning behind these regulations if anybody could enlighten me
that is the reason or theory behind the case length restrictions. has to do with the population density. in this map 3/4 of the state of michigan population lies in the lower 1/3 of the state. which, below and to the east of this blue line on the map. however, a .450 BM will out shoot 30/30 at 200 yards and greater. personally if i made the rules a 30-30 would be lega below the line. another part of the theory is they believe by putting a neck on a cartridge it creates more pressure and more range.Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy42
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That’s what I thought. Just another instance of some politicians, making a rule/law when they have no idea what they are doing. In this case, no actual knowledge of actual ballistics! Are you allowed to small game hunt with a 22? If you are I’m surprised! I mean every box of 22 long rifle has a statement that a 22 has a range of a mile and a quarter lol. That’s really got to get the panties in a wad! LolQuote:
Originally Posted by michael.birdsley
Anyway, thanks for the info I appreciate it.
In Michigan you can hunt small game with a bottlenecked cartridge if you want to, just can't hunt deer with a bottlenecked cartridge in the lower part of the state.
I called the local office of the PA Game Commission to ask about the new straight wall case rule. There is no list of approved cartridges, but it must be straight walled. You can even use a straight wall rifle cartridge in Allegheny County (Pittsburgh Metro) although in the past that county had been limited to archery, muzzle loader, or shotgun for big game. 357 mag is an approved cartridge; no you can't use a handgun. However you can use a handgun in the balance of the state.
PA has a strange mix of regulations. Autoloading rifles are not allowed for big game, although autoloading shotguns are. Presumably because grandpa had a Browning A5 and that gun did not commit any offenses.
Wayne
The first year for the rule change I used a 357AR. Cases were modified 223 cases so I carried a caliper in the truck with me until this year. A few years back the DNR walked through and asked to see our licenses. Never asked what our rifles were chambered in or mag capacities but my son and I both had AR15's. Pretty sure he had his 450BM and I was using either a 40 or 44 wildcat off of 30-06 brass. I tried 1.8" cases and bullets pushed out as far as possibe before the first year with my 444 Marlin and it shot very badly so I dropped that idea, used the 357AR that first year and made a 44x1.8" for the 2nd year. Fury Bullets sells 45/70 ammo that is MI limited Zone legal with 1.8" cases.
There was an attempt to expand the Limited Zone allowed cartridges earlier this year. The committee that helps form the MI DNR rules (MUCC, Michigan United Conservation Clubs) wouldn't even listen to it. My 44x1.8 (MI legal) can match or beat a 444 marlin. Working on a current 1.8" Belted 44 that is even faster. Still Can't use my 444 Marlin. Can't use a Win 405 but can use a 40x1.8" which can launch a 195ftx to a chrony average of 2761fps. That's in the same ballpark as 30-06 for a 195gr, although the 40 will still drop faster. 375FUW and 375x1.8" are within the same velocity range as 375 Win but 375 Win is slightly too long. 45/70 trap door loads are similar to 450BM loads ect. There's really no reason why 30/30, 32special, 35Rem, 375Win, 38/55, 405Win, 444 Marlin, 45/70 and others can't be allowed other than unwillingnessQuote:
Originally Posted by poppy42
After deer season if I were so inclined it would be perfectly fine for me to go clean out the squirrels at my hunting spot with my 30-06.
Trying to understand caliber restrictions is only slightly more difficult than trying to understand women.
nope!!!!!! Women still have the upper hand in this one, There is No understanding them.:groner:[smilie=2:Quote:
Originally Posted by dverna
LolQuote:
Originally Posted by SSGOldfart
Indiana has similar restrictions on public land but, does not stipulate straight wall cases. I have a 35 Rem Handi Rifle- I trim the cases to 1.8" and it's legal. Legal calibers on private property are pretty much any caliber from .243 to 50.
Makes no sense to me but, that's how it is.
It's a political thing, no way it could make sense.