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Good morning!
I am about 2 years into my gunsmithing business and I am still learning a lot. I have a customer that wants to ream a 40 S&W cylinder on a Ruger vaquero old model to 10 mm. He states that the barrel is good to go. Honestly, I do not know where to start. I have found a couple of articles where folks are using a 10mm finish reamer on the cylinder. Reaming is new to me so any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you!
Welcome to the Forum!
As a serious Ruger fan,, let me throw in a few things.
Ruger marked their guns with the model, until 1973. Then in 1973, they added the new action & safety transfer bar system. They marked the guns with "New Model."
The Vaqueros didn't come out until 1993. So ALL Vaquero's are the New Model. There were not any "old model" Vaquero's, (guns w/o the safety transfer bar system.) The "Original Vaquero's" were built on the same frame size as the Blackhawks. Later, they came out with a mid-frame "New Vaquero".
In Ruger terms, we use the following; "Old Model" means built prior to 1973. "New Model" means any gun after 1973. "Original Vaquero" means the early larger framed Vaquero's, while "Original Vaquero" means the mid-frame Vaquero's.
Confused yet?
Easiest way to determine the proper difference between the (2) frame sizes in the serial number. Larger frame guns have a (2) digit prefix while the mid-framed guns have a (3) digit prefix.
Now,, on to your question about reaming.
You should be able to just do the reaming with a 10mm reamer, and finish it out. In chamber reaming,, make SURE you use pilots to keep from "egging" the chamber holes. But,, MY serious suggestion would be to have a gentleman here,, "DougGuy" assist you. He does a LOT of cylinder honing & reaming, and he's an expert. TOP quality.
PS; Ruger .40 S&W Vaquero's are kinda collectable & desirable. That will ruin any collector value. Ruger did make a few other convertible's with the ability to swap cylinders. In the Blackhawk, a Distributor Special, called a Buckeye Sports in 38-40 & 10mm. They also made a Blackhawk in .40 S&W/ .10mm convertible. In the Vaquero, the San Diego Sheriff Dept special was in .40 S&W. The overrun of that model was very limited numbers, that we estimate to be under 150 guns.
Thank you very much! I will pass this information along to verify if he still wants to do this. In the meantime, I would still love any tips, tricks, recommendations on tools, etc. There is a lot of great information here to be had!
Thanks for NOT taking offense at my info reply. Many people fail to understand that by using the proper terminology we can prove to the non-gun people, that we are intelligent. And in collecting guns, or using guns, if we teach the proper terms,, we pass along good information. My wife is harsh on this,, because we teach ladies, and sadly too many male people don't think a woman knows anything about firearms. By doing it correctly, we allow the ladies to show many male people that they are actually smarter than they thought.
In collecting & using Rugers,, those of us who invest a lot of time & money,, want to know exactly what we are discussing. All too often, using the wrong terms can create confusion & problems,, especially if it comes to describing a potential collectors piece. (A good example is the mistake that many make calling a fixed sighted Single-Six a "Flattop" which it's not.)
As noted,, the SD PD guns were a special run, and have a shield image on the frame. The over-runs do not. A total production of all of them combined is around 1100 guns. MOST were marked with the shield.
Talk to your customer,, and explain to them that by reaming it,, it changes the rollmarking ID info. If someone else was wanting to buy it in the future, thinking they were getting a desirable .40 S&W, but it having been modified, could be a $$$ problem. Many lawsuits have been filed over less. He might be able to sell his & buy a convertible with both .40 S&W & .10mm cylinders.
And as I mentioned, DougGuy has a business where he can easily do this, and get it RIGHT, at a very reasonable cost. If you are new to reaming & such, a rimmed chamber is an easier job to learn on.
I've reamed many Ruger cylinders that were undersized, and the biggest thing is to make SURE you keep things aligned. Proper tools are a must. Otherwise, an out of round chamber can result. I use as many pilots on my reamer as I can get & still be able to cut what is necessary.
With a chamber that allows the headspace to be the case mouth, depth is as critical as alignment.
Personally, I would look for a Blackhawk .357 or 9mm cylinder to have rebored. Thus saving the original .40 S&W cylinder.
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Good info, thanks! I had one of those early vaquero's on the BH frame, it was a stout gun. Wish I had kept it..
One thing to know about me, I will never take offense to suggestions and I asked for. There is a LOT here, and I am here to learn so that is good. :) My customer is finding out that reaming the 40 might not be such a good idea. I found that he wants to ream to 10mm because he can't find 40 S&W cylinders for that firearm. Now he is considering find a .357 cylinder to open to 10 mm. His model has a 2-digit prefix. @Texas by God, he doesn't like the Blackhawk because of the adjustable sights and honestly, I don't know what he is referring to.
I believe MOST if not all Blackhawks have adjustable sights, but vaqueros are fixed sights. Finding a 9mm cylinder to ream to 10mm would be the best way to go and DougGuy is first rate.
I have always wondered why people don't buy what they wanted in the first place.
Dern, I completely forgot about the idea of having a different cylinder (.9mm or .357) reamed to .10 mm. That's a GREAT solution.
I'm a little confused about your statement; "he wants to ream to 10mm because he can't find 40 S&W cylinders for that firearm." If he already has a .40 S&W why is he looking for another cylinder in .40 S&W?
Yes,, the Blackhawks all have adjustable sights. The Vaquero's do not.
Not liking adjustable sights is something many folks prefer. But,, it can be frustrating to find "the load" that regulates to the Vaquero sights. Often, I've seen folks who prefer the clean looks of the grooved topstrap, & half moon front fail to be accurate at serious distances when handgunning. (100 yds plus.) This is why having adjustable sights is preferred by serious handgunners who seek long range accuracy. Adjustable sights just allow more options.
BUT,, the clean lines of the Vaquero do make for a nice looking sixgun.
To each their own.
And; "I have always wondered why people don't buy what they wanted in the first place." That's fine,, EXCEPT,, that Ruger has never offered a Vaquero in 10mm.
The only .10mm offerings were the (2) Blackhawk variation I mentioned above.
The New Model Blackhawk and Old Model(original) Vaquero use the exact same size cylinder, correct?
That's what I was suggesting- rechambering a commonly available Blackhawk 9mm or .357 cylinder for his Vaquero.
A .40 S&W Vaquero would be neat- 38-40 performance with easy to find and sometimes free brass.
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My guess is that he didn't think about reaming a 9mm or .357 until I started speaking with him about it. Originally, he thought that the 40 S&W was his only option. I am really interested in getting one of these now. Thank you again! Lot of great information here!
Right, but he doesn't want the adjustable sights. He is pretty limited on available options because of this. I gave him some suggestions based off of the awesome recommendations from you fine folks and I am waiting for a replay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas by God
As long as he has an Original Vaquero, it's the same frame size as the New Model Blackhawk. As such, the cylinder frame "window" would allow the use of a .357 or .9mm cylinder as a donor for reaming.
When looking for a spare cylinder, measure the OAL of the existing cylinder in the gun. Then, look for a spare with the same OAL or a few thousands longer. If longer, the cylinder boss can be honed down to fit. As for timing, always check alignment,, but so far in all my spare cylinders in Rugers,, I've never found one out of alignment. BUT I CHECK THEM ALL before shooting.
A spare cylinder is going to cost about $100-$150 depending upon where & whom you get it from. The 9mm cylinders cost more as many folks want them to make their gun a convertible.
That's what John Taylor did for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas by God
He built an indexing fixture for Ruger cylinders because he does a lot of them.