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Not having either of these I am curious if there is any real world difference between the Max and the Legend.
About to yank the trigger on getting one or the other. My Encore is the primary rifle to play with but I really would like opinions on each and your preference one way or the other and why.
I have both and think they are equivalent. If you are using an Encore, might as well use a rim and go with 357 Max. More bullet options are available in 35 cal vs 9mm also. With a single shot any nose profile will work great. Too big a meplat and it won’t feed well in 350 Legend repeaters.
Better bullet selection with the Max. I have an Encore .357max (two different MGM bbls) and it will shoot five shots into a ragged hole at 100 yds. Marketing ballistics vs real world the max comes out ahead. Nothing really wrong with the Legend, but there is definitely less bullets to choose from.
I would rather have the Max, headspacing on the rim is just a better way to do things for a break action. The Legend is the new hotness, but it just doesn't speak to me in the same way.
The extractor on a rimless case is spring-loaded and drags the length of the case. The rimmed version offers a better bite.
I have loaded for the max for decades. I have a 357 Max AR (exceedingly similar to 350L).
For a bolt gun, for an autoloader and for folks that do not reload, the 350L is the correct choice.
As long as you reload and are going single shot, the Max is much, much better. The tapered case, the bullet diameter, the head spacing on the mouth and the rimless case all work against the 350L for this application. The 350L can do good in a break open, but the probability of happiness increases a lot with the max.
Sounds to me that in my Encore the max is the choice.
When I get ready ... IF ... the legend will be the AR choice.
Thanks fella's. I assumed as much. The Legend ... is it really .355 or do I read that incorrectly?
Check out MGM barrels. They make a dandy.
If you buy an MGM barrel, make sure you don’t get one of the 1:20 twist barrels they were selling up until about 2-3 years ago. I bought one of those after calling them and asking why they were selling .357 bbls with this twist. They assured me that they would shoot every weight bullet with that twist. I knew better but bought one anyway. It did not shoot bullets above 158 grains well at all, and was marginal with some loads using 158 grains. They were telling everyone that the 1:20 was what they found to be the best. I believe it’s just what they had on hand. I ended up getting a 1:16 twist from them and that’s the bbl. I used to shoot the group posted in my above response. I’ve had four different custom .357 bbls/handguns built over the years and they were all 1:16 and shot great. I’ve never seen a 1:20 shoot nearly as well. Just check if you get a used one.Quote:
Originally Posted by 725
I have both X4+ in Maxi.
They are NOT equal! The legend is slightly more powerful on paper and in reality. The Maxi has less capacity and loaded to lower pressures.
MAX dats can be used in Legend and usually is below starting loads.
But I still love the maxi better. Its a better choice for a SS and cab be massaged to impressive ballistics in strong guns.
The Legend is a better repeater case. Slightly improved ballistics. Ill be buried with a Maxi not a Legend.
CW
I’m shooting a Hornady 180g bullet at 1,850 fps and you’re telling me that the 350L is more powerful? With what bullet and what load? I’m getting over 2300fps with a 158g Hornady bullet also. I’m skeptical the Legend is matching this. However, I’m open to honest comparisons.
If I got only the claimed 350 Legend performance out of a 357Max Encore rifle, I would be very disappointed. My Henry in regular old 357mag gets over 1900fps with the minimum load of Lil'Gun and a 158gr boolit.
I have a Henry Single shot in .357 MAX. Rechambered from.357 Mag. By David White in Oklahoma. He also did a great trigger job on it without weakening the hammer spring. I have been shooting 180 grain J's from Speer and Fury. The Speer boolits are about half as much as the Fury's. But, since it has been so difficult to get J's I have been shooting Lee 200 grain Cast boolits. Both gas check and plain base. If I sort the boolits according to weight and load those within one grain weight of each other the rifle will shoot 1" to 1 1/2" three shot groups at 100 yds. with an 18X scope.
I think the cast boolits can be driven faster than the J's. Haven't scored yet but I think this is a deer slayer. 2,000 fps with a 200 grain boolit is .35 Remington performance.
357 Max IMO is a superb cartridge. Would love to see it in a Marlin lever rifle. I did re-chamber a couple Handi rifles for customers. and my Henry 357 mag to a Max.
lot of versatility this way. I can also shoot 357 mag ammo loaded with 250 grain bullets. not able to with Max cases. goes too far into the lands. these need to be seated out pretty far.
For those comparing performance, this has been discussed at length numerous times before.
I think all of the straight wall 35 cal cartridge choices are great in the right application. I have no emotional preference for any of them.
When loaded to rated pressures, the 350L has an edge in both pressure and case capacity. The combination makes the 350L performance significantly better.
However, we all know that many people load the 357 Max above rated.
When loaded above rated pressures for the strongest guns (I will use any gun offered chambered in 270 Win for reference), any standard 35 cal straight wall round (380, 9mm, 38 Sp, 357 Magnum, 360 DW, 357 Max, 350L) can be pushed to faster speeds.
Look up the 353 Casull. A super stout revolver with 357 mag cases pushed to 357 Max performance. It seemed to worked fine as long as you did not care if your cases lasted for more than one loading.
The Encore is sold chambered for the 65,000 psi rated 270 Winchester. Around this pressure level is probably more appropriate where you want you brass to last through multiple reloadings.
Plan to use heavy cup primers (CCI 41 for example) it you are going to push things above 50,000 psi or so.
Sticking with the 270 Win rated pressure, Quickload says a long seated 180 gr (0.385" seating depth) can be pushed to 1880 fps from a 357 mag case in an 18" barrel.
Same parameters as above, gets around 2200 fps from the max case and around 2300 fps from a 350L case.
Change over to a 200 gr bullet, keep the 0.385" seating depth and QL predictions go from around 1770 fps for the magnum case, around 2100 for the max case and around 2170 fps for the 350L case.
Warning: The above discussion is only close to valid for the strongest guns, the stated seating depth and the "optimum burn rate" powders. Loading any round to above SAAMI specs makes the ammo potentially dangerous if it is fired in a lesser gun.
I generally only load above the rated specs for a cartridge case when I am confident my gun is strong enough and then only for testing. All such ammo is fired or disassembled shortly after being loaded.
Over the years I have learned that is is just too easy to loose track of what was in a given batch of ammo and/or any limitations on what guns it was loaded for. This is just a hobby, I want no part in doing something stupid that ends up hurting myself or others and no part in damaging any gun.
The 357 Max is the only exception I take with respect to keeping my standard ammo in SAAMI specs. Down at the 40,000 psi SAAMI limit, I was never able to get a load that "worked" for my IHMSA needs. I did not know this at the time I started doing it. I was consistent with published loads (I do not think any were pressure tested) and I found that my guns just shot better at higher pressures. Quickload tells me that some of my loads are around 50,000 psi.
My rifle load for the max. probably run at least 50K psi. 180 gr jacketed, IIRC, at about 2300fps and a 158 gr boolit, the 358156, just at 2500fps and 2"groups @100yds. Ruger #1
RR,
Your velocities are right up there. You did not mention barrel length. I am guessing longer than the 16" I used previously.
For a 24" barrel and the velocities you posted, QL says closer to 57,000 psi with either H110 or Lil Gun for either load. This pressure is perfectly safe in a Ruger #1, and probably some margin for good brass life.
The "very low" 40,000 psi rating I found for the max shown in Quickload surprised me. Early on everyone in the IHMSA game seemed to think the guns (Ruger & DW mostly) were good for any pressure that did not leave you with loose primer pockets. The only other point that was stressed was to not use hot loads in anything under 180 grs.