Just wondered if anybody has a .45 ACP carbine. I've been thinking about getting one to work up a load for it, and maybe use it for a short range/woods deer rifle. A friend casts Lee 230 gr. FP, that looks good.
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Just wondered if anybody has a .45 ACP carbine. I've been thinking about getting one to work up a load for it, and maybe use it for a short range/woods deer rifle. A friend casts Lee 230 gr. FP, that looks good.
I do not but in the terrain (West Central GA) I grew up hunting where shots were 60 yards max, I think it would be pretty good.
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I've got a Mauser that I converted to a 45acp carbine. The only thing I've hunted with it were ground squirrels. Mostly it's a fun gun to shoot at the range. I have better options, so I wouldn't consider it for deer size game. It's funny how people on the internet will respond that a 45acp is way too light for deer hunting, but those same people wouldn't think twice about using a 45 caliber muzzleloader with similar ballistics. Here's my thoughts on using a 45acp carbine for deer: 1. shot placement is critical. There isn't going to be hydraulic shock from such a slow bullet, so disabling vital organs is key. You'll need to practice, practice, practice to know that you can hit your mark. Once you have your rifle sighted in, get up from the shooting bench and train yourself to shoot in the positions that you'll be taking in the field.
2. with this round penetration is more important than expansion. Many people have said before that some bullets might expand out to 45 caliber, but a 45 isn't going to shrink. Bullets from a 45acp are already big enough in diameter to create a decent wound channel. With that in mind, choose the heaviest boolit that cycles reliably. This will give you the best penetration, which is important if you need to get through bone.
3. Use a bullet with the largest meplat that will cycle reliably. Round nose bullets may cycle more reliably, but they can also pencil right through without creating a good wound channel. Hollow points might not expand good at 45 acp velocities, (and you don't really need much expansion if the bullet is already 45 caliber). Use what you have, but a heavy bullet with a good meplat should work best under these limitations.
4. Your not going to get "high velocity" from a 45 acp carbine. Usually the longer barrel only gets you about 50 to 75 more fps. There's only so much powder that will fit into that smaller case. Using a lighter bullet, like a 185 grain swc, will only get you less penetration. The small increase in velocity won't equate to more killing power on the game. In example: you need a bullet that will penetrate a shoulder blade and still have enough energy to bust up the internal organs or break the spine. A lighter, faster slug might look sexy, but a bigger, heavier slug is your friend and will get the job done even at slower velocity.
The 45 acp cartridge was designed as a defensive pistol round with the intent of disabling humans that are intent on doing you harm. It does this task quite well. But for hunting medium sized game from a carbine length rifle it can be optimized to give you the best performance. Even then, it should be considered a short range cartridge and I would not recommend it for shots much beyond 70 or 80 yards. One last note - in 1911 pistols I've always used unique, but in a carbine I've found that HS-6 works better.
I have hunted deer for the last several years now with a .45 acp handgun (actually .45 Super) as well as several deer killed with a .45 Colt. A .45 acp carbine should work just fine with the heavier flat nosed bullets as has been suggested. Expansion of the bullet is not nearly as important as penetration to be effective on deer shot at less than perfect angles. As "405grain" said...slower powders will give better results in a carbine. Powders in the burn range of PowerPistol, LongShot and BlueDot should be able to give you worthwile velocity increase behind heavy bullets (I hunt with 255 grain cast flat nose). If you load to the +P level you may see 1000 fps with the heavy bullets. Good hunting!
Another vote to look into the 45 Super if building or going custom with it.
Within the limits of the round it will work fine. Check your state laws to be sure you're OK using it. Not sure it would meet my current states ME requirement.
I have a ,45acp Hipoint carbine. I think my days in the deer woods are over, but I would have no qualms about using mine for that.
At 100 yards it was making groups smaller than a soda can. That is good enough with a good shot to put one where it needs to go.
I like the 45 Carbine concept, but would not go out and buy one for deer hunting. I would spend the money on something that is better for the intended purpose. A pump shotgun with slugs or a 450 Bushmaster comes to mind. The Bushmaster could share some commonality with the 45ACP-same rim, bullet size, and could use pistol primers and some of the same powders for light loads.
A heavy flat nose bullet. If I was going to get carbine in 45acp I would look for one of the old Marlins. They use 1911 mags and all of my 45acp handguns are 1911 style. I have shot deer with a 1911 pistol at about 50 yards. Got little movement and it was down. Remember shoot till it is down or out of sight. So what if you damage 10 pounds of meat when the 1st shot was fatal. You did not know for sure it was. I will loose 10 pounds of meat to gain 100. Good luck and have fun.
Steve
I have a hi-point as well, and while I have not gotten a deer with it yet, I have killed several hogs with it. Don't get too worried about heavy bullets and magnum powders, I was working up hot 230-255 grain loads until I had a shot at a hog that went close to 200 pounds one night. Just had my 200 grain lee rf possum popper/target load in the mag, but from 70 yards, 2 shots, 2 hits, 2 pass throughs, 1 dead hog.
If I get one I'm gonna try to work up a load +p level or hotter. maybe try and work up to Super. 230 gr. Lee fp should be good. Shots will be a max of about 75 yards. With most at around 30 yards. Thanks
This is a good point to remember with any game/ cartridge combo, not just the marginal ones.
It is also one of the reasons I prefer to blow through the shoulder into the heart/lung region, as opposed to a behind the shoulder rib only shot. It helps anchor whatever I'm shooting at.
Robert
A couple years ago I built a 45ACP rifle on a savage 112, series-j. It is a target rifle with no metal machined out for a magazine well.
I changed the bolt head to a .308 size to accommodate the ACP case.
The barrel is a 20.5” full bull stainless.
The trigger is set for under a pound. I wound up with a 45ACP/Super in a precision platform. Lol!
Why? Because I wanted to see what could be squeezed out of this cartridge. And later I can rechamber for a 450 Bushmaster If I like.
This rifle can shoot as many groups at 1MOA as just over. I have had more than a few groups under the inch mark.
All In all, I would guess the average group size would be 1-1/4” or less.
I am using Longshot mostly, but I use a powder a bit slower to max out my velocities.
I will likely take a Mule Deer doe with my 250 grain XTP load. They mushroom beautifully out to around 125 yards. This little rifle is allot of fun!
a few years back, I had a chance to buy a Marlin camp carbine chambered in 45acp for $200. Hesitated a bit too long, and lost it to someone else. I kick myself every time I think about it. It would have been for plinking and stuff like that. The 45 acp is not legal to hunt deer in Michigan, too short.
I have a Savage bolt action with a 45acp barrel on it. I'd use it for hunting if it were legal here. It'll out 300blk the 300blk for both subs and supers. 165gr hydra shock at 1920fps is wicked on jackrabbits. 250-260gr at 1050fps is pretty easy to get and pretty quiet with the can.
If you get a semi auto, which is what is commercially available, you're pretty much restricted to standard/+P loads. Those are blow back actions so heavier loads can batter the actions. With a 16" barrel the Lee 230 TC bullet over 5 gr of Bullseye (standard 45 ACP load) will run 1000 fps +. That is quite sufficient for short range deer. A 220 - 230 gr GC'd TC or SWC would be better loaded over 7.5 gr Unique (+P pressure) at 1200+ fps.
You can go a "custom" bolt action or a single shot and load to even better ballistics with cast or jacketed. I can push the 185 or 200 gr XTPs to 1400 fps or the 245 gr GC'd 452490 SWC to 1200+ fps over Unique or to 1400 with a couple other powders. Measured psi's are in the +P++ so those, obviously, would not be good to use in a semi auto.
My M98 Mauser with Rhineland conversion to 45 ACP;
Attachment 288432
Attachment 288433
This is what the Hornady 230 XTP bullet will do in ballistic gel:
https://www.luckygunner.com/hornady-...ady-20#geltest
Granted this is at close range so how it performs as velocity drops is a question. But at less than 50 yards it should get the job done. Note the gun used in the test was a short barrel Kahr. With a carbine and slower powders velocity will be higher. Going form a 4" to 18" barrel should add 100 fps or more.
Would I use it? No, but I have better options. Will it work? I would not want to be the deer that gets tagged with it.
One last consideration for the OP. If you use it for deer hunting, check your state rules on magazine capacity. Just loading 5 rounds in a higher capacity magazine will not be compliant. You must physically limit the capacity of the magazine.
I checked the hunting digest, and I believe you are correct. I hunt the limited firearm zone, but if I had a chance to hunt north of the LFZ, the 45 acp would not be my choice of cartridge.
To hunt with a centerfire rifle in the LFZ, the cartridge must be straight walled,.35 caliber or larger, case must be between 1.16" and 1.8" long. The 45 acp case is only .898"
Not to hyjack this thread, but hoping that those who responded here might know. Are there any .45 carbine / pistol combos that share magazines?
The old marlin camp carbine uses 1911 mags. The TNZ uses glock mags.
Steve