looking at 40 cals....40-70ss, 40-70bn or 40-90bn

After ordering my 44-77 from Shiloh months ago, I'm thinking of ordering Shiloh #3 (my first is a 45-110) and thinking of getting one of the 3 original Sharps 40 cal rounds: 40-70bn, 40-70ss, 40-90bn (not interested in 40-65 or the 40-82). It seems that a lot of what I have read is seemingly somewhat dated and was curious if view points have changed any? Examples: 40-70bn is dirtier and fouls more and the 40-70ss is an accurate today, can't hit the side of the barn the next day. Any truths to these statement or are they just myths?

Idea for rifle is a Shiloh Hartford model, 30" barrel with full length scope for deer hunting. Probably a single trigger. Not concerned with die or component costs.

Was going to order 100 pieces of brass from RMC, but not sure if there is any truths to what I've read from 2004, 2012, 2014, etc and their "supposed" issues? I like the express load of the 40-90 in regards to velocity, but haven't read a lot about it (same as the 44-90), as they seem to be lost cartridges in BPCR.

40-90 bottle neck kicks like a mule in a standard weight barrel, and consumes a lot of powder. Think 94'ish grains of 1 f every time you pull the trigger.
The 40-70 ss can shoot very well once you get cases that will fit the chamber, and right now that's going to be a big problem. It like's 1 1/2 f powder. You might be in good shape tho ordering cases from RMC as Tom is expecting his Shiloh 77 in 40-70 about any day now, so he and Kody will be good and practiced up on making them to fit the Shiloh chamber.
No experience with the 40-70 bn, but want to some day. I can't imagine it would foul any more or be any less accurate than the other bottleneck cartridges.

Thanks. The 40-90 is kinda a smaller version of my 45-110, but maybe a little cooler looking because its a BN. I'm kinda leaning towards the straight right now, but I just don't know. The straight would be cheaper for dies (standard Lyman) compared to the BN, but then again, after spending $2,500-3,000 on a rifles, two hundred bucks for CH4D dies isn't really that bad.

The 1-1/2F is good as I have plenty of OE left.

There are far more experienced guys than me here and I'm sure you'll get a variety of opinions. But FWIW, I have a #3 Shiloh in .40-70BN I bought new over 30 years ago. My eyes aren't as good as they used to be. But When I do my part, it can shoot very well.

I'm going to put in a plug for the 40/50 Sharps straight. It is an original Sharps cartridge and easily formed from Krag brass. It will shoot a 400 grain bullet at 1100 fps which will certainly take care of any deer you might encounter. It will do it with 2/3 of the powder of the larger cases. For a hunting rifle I think I would go with a 28" standard weight barrel. You can get more shooting enjoyment for your buck and you won't get beat up doing it. My son shot one in BPCR silhouette and still holds three national records from 2009. I have my own now and really enjoy shooting it.

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Originally Posted by bob15

Thanks. The 40-90 is kinda a smaller version of my 45-110, but maybe a little cooler looking because its a BN. I'm kinda leaning towards the straight right now, but I just don't know. The straight would be cheaper for dies (standard Lyman) compared to the BN, but then again, after spending $2,500-3,000 on a rifles, two hundred bucks for CH4D dies isn't really that bad.

The 1-1/2F is good as I have plenty of OE left.

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I don't know if Redding still offers dies for the 40-90 bn but that's the dies I use.
For match shooting I would lots rather take either of my 110's, than that 10 lb 40-90. But for a hunting gun the 40 would sure be a flat shooting critter masher.
Mr Bly makes a good case for the 40-50 st, and the 40-50 bn is a neat looking cartridge to.

I have been trying to find a FL sizing die for the 40-50 BN ,not one anywhere on the planet. CH4D doesn’t answer emails or the phone. I would make sure I could shoot the rifle before I had the rifle chambered in something it may prove difficult to get what you need. Krag brass is as hard to find as any other obsolete brass and expensive when you find it. RCC makes brass for about anything but $$$$ and you still need at least a FL sizing die to just start.

I shoot quite a few different BPCR rifles in .40, .44, and.45 caliber and some of my rifles are for hunting and casual shooting. The only caliber that I have not been successful in getting it to shoot dirty is the.40 2 5/8 SBN. By shooting dirty I mean ejecting the spent cartridge and having the next cartridge fall into the chamber with out blowing or wiping and shooting under 2 1/2 MOA out to 350 yards for at least 5 shots and preferably 10 or more. I have two .40 2 1/2 SS that I have never had any problems with accuracy and with a 270 to 330 grain bullet is way more than adequate for deer.

Get the 40/70 SBN! It got a bad rep from Remington as a buffalo killer despite a lot of peop using it. If it had more offerings using a heavier 370 gr bullet like its big brother then i suspect we wouldnt have room to question its effectiveness. After all the 49/90 only beats it by a 100 fps or so. The carbon rings invfront of chamber mouths stem from using greasers. Put you a proper paper patch bullet over a sandwiched grease cookie and shove it using 70 gr of 1.5 olde Eynesford and you shouldnt ever see a carbon ring.

The 40-70bn is awfully tempting, with the 40-90bn in a close second. Being able to use 1.5 OE is nice plus!!!

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Originally Posted by Deadeye Bly

I'm going to put in a plug for the 40/50 Sharps straight. It is an original Sharps cartridge and easily formed from Krag brass. It will shoot a 400 grain bullet at 1100 fps which will certainly take care of any deer you might encounter. It will do it with 2/3 of the powder of the larger cases. For a hunting rifle I think I would go with a 28" standard weight barrel. You can get more shooting enjoyment for your buck and you won't get beat up doing it. My son shot one in BPCR silhouette and still holds three national records from 2009. I have my own now and really enjoy shooting it.

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I got a Shiloh in 40-50SS similar to what you are looking for after seeing an article by Deadeye. It is fun to shoot, in fact I had it up to Friendship shooting the 500yd steel Creedmoor targets 2 days ago. Less than a month after getting the rifle in I took a nice Whitetail Buck. It is a lot of fun for Midrange matches and Silhouette matches although it doesn't take the Rams down with much authority.
My thinking was that if I was unhappy with it I could take it out to 40-70SS. But as Don pointed out getting brass is tough. As far as getting 30-40 Krag brass I haven't had any problem getting it from Grafs. I haven't checked recently but right now everything is tight.

Bob

I picked up a 40-90 sharps straight , supposed to be original chamber not the shiloh sharps version , brass is not cheap and not readily available , but it is fun to shoot .

So bought a 40-65 from Dixie , still waiting on the brass from Starline , have made some from odd 45-70 . then I got a 45-70 but my mold does not fit the throat , so waiting on Accurate Molds to make one .

Mine are all Pedersoli , be another 20 months for Shiloh to start building one for me .

I've been shooting a #1 Shiloh Sporter in 40-70 SS for somewhere near 25 years. Mine has always been consistent as long as I was. I'm still using the same 100 cases I bought before the rifle came in so I can't tell you anything about brass or die availability.

Maybe it's me but I've always had difficulties getting cases with capacities over about 80 gr. to shoot well and, I've tried several. Whatever you do, get the one that put the biggest grin on your face. That will cover a multitude of sin.

I just started playing around with the 40-65 an 40-82. Working with Brochardt Rifle company in Silver City. Plan is to rebarrel a Swede rolling block to one or both of these. Likely to start with the 40-82 first.

https://i.postimg.cc/G3BM9vCZ/202106...809_HDR(1).jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/PNsv5gjr/202106...843_HDR(2).jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/0QKjW6k4/202106...553_HDR(1).jpg

There are a lot of old wives tales about BN BP cartridges. I think they were propagated by folks who never shot one.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

Well, I finally ordered brass as it will probably be 4-5 months before I get it anyways. Wound up ordering 100 pieces each of 40-70ss, 40-90bn & 44-90bn which is addition to the 100 pieces of 44-77 I had already ordered. I figured I'll wind up ordering those rifles eventually and with RMC showing their business for sale, I figured cry once and buy it now rather than wait and burn myself if they close up (hope not). Eventually I'll probably order 40-70bn......but I had to draw the line somewhere